IP, IB vs A Levels

[James Ang]

ST Forums;


Mon, Jan 25, 2010
The Straits Times


Have more IP schools

THE Integrated Programme (IP) is creating unnecessary pressure on primary school pupils embarking onward to secondary school education. Only recently, National Junior College, among other schools, joined the IP bandwagon so it would not lose out on its share of academically smart primary school pupils entering Secondary 1.

But this widening net of IP schools has also created problems for well-performing O-level students who find it harder to win a place in the top five junior colleges.

Because the IP cohort gets larger and larger, enabling more secondary students to gain automatic A-level places without having to sit for the O-level examinations, vacancies in the top junior colleges shrink to the disadvantage of O-level students.


Perhaps the best way to arrest the problem is to enlarge the IP programme even more - to schools with a history of consistently producing bright students such as Victoria, Cedar Girls’, Crescent Girls’, Methodist Girls’, Singapore Chinese Girls’, Catholic High, St Joseph’s Institution, Anglo-Chinese Secondary, St Andrews’, Bukit Panjang Government High and CHIJ St Nicholas’.

If the IP net is not widened enough, the space crunch in Singapore’s top JCs will intensify.

David Goh



Jan 30, 2010
ST Forum

Restrict IPs to students who will gain from it

I REFER to last Saturday’s letter by Mr David Goh, ‘Have more IP schools’.

He advocates increasing the number of places in the integrated programme (IP) to ensure that top performing O-level students enter top junior colleges (JCs). I feel that it is fairer to ensure that students with the highest academic ability get to enter top JCs, and offer IP places only to those who can gain more from the IP than the O-level track.

Mr Goh’s argument rests on the assumption that top performing O-level students are necessarily those with the highest academic ability. This leads him to conclude that it is unfair that a top scorer in the O levels cannot enter the JC of his choice.

While I do not deny such occurrences, it is worth pointing out that it is now relatively easy for a student to be a top performer in the O levels. This occurs because the O levels are marked on a bell curve, and with many academically talented students skipping the O levels, the remaining ones taking these exams face less competition.� In other words, an excellent O-level score is no longer the best proxy for academic achievement, so this is not a sufficient reason to argue for a need to provide extra places for these students.

However, this argument assumes that academic ability at Primary 6 correlates exactly with academic ability at O level. Mr Goh is right in pointing out that the IP puts a lot of pressure on Primary 6 pupils, since the Primary School Leaving Examination determines their entry to these schools. After which, they may have an easier path to one of the top JCs than a late bloomer who performs well only come the O levels.

In that case, instead of reflexively opening more places in the IP to reward these late bloomers, perhaps the criteria for promotion of these IP students should be made stricter, to ensure that entry into JC is based on� strong academic performance in secondary school, rather than in primary school.

We should not increase IP places merely to satisfy people. The IP has restrictions of its own - students who are more inclined towards the polytechnics are denied these choices, and IP students interact with a much smaller group of people than their non-IP counterparts. In that respect, these IP students may understand less of the concerns facing those who are not their six-year IP mates, which may hinder their interaction with others in the future.

Chua Xin Rong (Ms)




Feb 6, 2010
My Point

O-level disadvantage

‘Six A1s and four A2s - but failed to win a place in first-choice JC.’

MS TOH SIEW TIN: ‘I agree with Mr David Goh (‘O-level’s A-level disadvantage: Have more IP schools’, Jan 23) that the Integrated Programme (IP) has created a space crunch in Singapore’s top junior colleges (JCs). My daughter scored 10 distinctions - six A1s and four A2s - but failed to win a place in Hwa Chong, her first-choice JC. Distinctions in two additional subjects, Music Elective Programme and Higher Chinese, give no added advantage over IP students. Naturally, I regret not enrolling her in the IP or channelling her to the direct school admission programme earlier. Perhaps Hwa Chong or the Ministry of Education can explain why she failed to gain entry to her first-choice JC?’

Feb 8, 2010
My Point

Admission blues

‘The cut-off point is calculated using the L1R5 scoring system, and not the number of distinctions attained.’

DR HON CHIEW WENG, principal, Hwa Chong Institution: ‘I refer to Ms Toh Siew Tin’s letter on Saturday, ‘O-level disadvantage: Six A1s and four A2s - but failed to win a place in first-choice JC’. We congratulate Ms Toh’s daughter on her good performance. The cut-off point is calculated using the L1R5 scoring system, and not the number of distinctions attained. This scoring system takes into account the student’s first language (L1) and five relevant subjects (R5), which must include at least one from Mathematics, Science and Humanities. Each school’s cut-off point varies from year to year, depending on the number and quality of applicants who apply under the Joint Admission Exercise. This year, Hwa Chong’s cut-off point for both the Arts and Science streams is 3. This includes bonus deductions for passing Higher Mother Tongue and outstanding Co-Curricular Activities records. We regret that not everyone who puts Hwa Chong as his first-choice school was posted to us. We wish Ms Toh’s daughter all the best.’

Feb 10, 2010
My Point

JC problem

‘There must be something amiss if a student must score three points or lower to qualify for an elite junior college.’

MR PHILIP TAN: ‘I refer to Hwa Chong Institution principal Hon Chiew Weng’s reply on Monday (‘Admission blues’). There must be something amiss if a student must score three points or lower to qualify for an elite junior college. Is this the result of the Integrated Programme in which schools admit most of their students after the Primary School Leaving Examination (PSLE), thereby depriving capable students who may be late bloomers of a chance to enter such schools? The successful students who did well for their PSLE are assured of an education in an elite school up to the A levels. This, I assume, will eventually leave few places for equally capable students.’

Not good enough

‘An A2 is considered a blight.’

MR MATT HOWE: ‘If the cut-off point for Hwa Chong Institution was three points last year and there are not many places left for O-level students, it must be a cause for concern. I have heard students commenting that they can afford no less than A1s in their O-level exams. An A2 is considered a blight.’

30 years ago

‘Six A1s and four A2s was a 50-50 chance back then too.’

MR ANAND A. VATHIYAR: ‘It is unfortunate that Ms Toh Siew Tin felt she made a mistake (‘O-level disadvantage’, last Saturday) by not enrolling her daughter in the Integrated Programme. The space crunch in junior colleges should not be singled out for blame. It has been almost 30 years since I sat for my O-level exams and an achievement like Ms Toh’s daughter’s - six A1s and four A2s - was a 50-50 chance, at best, in landing a place at Hwa Chong back then too.’

[JonC]

Good point to ponder.


I have seen many late developers in life who’s so so in Pri, so so in Sec and even so so in JC, but score 3 distintions in Uni’s subjects.

But do not lose heart, acadamic is only one of the path which all can take as a ticket to maybe "better life", but it is not the only way.

[James Ang]

JonC:

Good point to ponder.


I have seen many late developers in life who's so so in Pri, so so in Sec and even so so in JC, but score 3 distintions in Uni's subjects.

But do not lose heart, acadamic is only one of the path which all can take as a ticket to maybe \"better life\", but it is not the only way.

I took around 30 modules (subjects?) in university and more than half of them are distinctions (A and A+). I think it is quite common to get distinctions in Uni.

[VitoRelax]

Hey ks2me & 25hourmaid,


do you think I should start commenting again ?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

[autumnbronze]

VitoRelax:

Hey ks2me & 25hourmaid,


do you think I should start commenting again ?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

*kaypo auntie mode on*

why ah why ah ah pek ...

comment on what?? whats so funny, pray tell leh ...

[VitoRelax]

autumnbronze:

*kaypo auntie mode on*


why ah why ah ah pek ...

comment on what?? whats so funny, pray tell leh ...

I am sure ks2me (and you) dowan me to start all over again ... wait i cannot stop ... how ?

Hahaha ....

[autumnbronze]

VitoRelax:

I am sure ks2me (and you) dowan me to start all over again ... wait i cannot stop ... how ?


Hahaha ....

Alamak, say lah ... don't halfway keep pple hanging ....

[VitoRelax]

autumnbronze:

Alamak, say lah ... don't halfway keep pple hanging ....

don't temp me leh .... later this moderator ban you for OT, hor !!

[autumnbronze]

Okie last try. Don't want to OT. Got any link for me to read your past 'verbal misdeeds' ???


SORRI :offtopic: :salute:

[JonC]

@James Ang


You are talking about the entire Uni years?

I am talking about this ordinary person who Pri, Sec and JC just kind of scrap through to reach Uni and first year in Uni (under old system, not the current flexi system), out of the only few modules in first year, 3 distinctions (grades better than A) and the rest A.

Here I am talking about the really late developers who only bloom in the Uni and not earlier, because they find those subject before Uni boring, this group may not make it to Uni under current system, and parents may have to send them overseas Uni.

If you are all the way from Pri, Sec and JC getting distinctions, than Uni getting distinction is not so eyebrow raising anymore.