All About Choosing Piano Schools And Teachers
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ipiano1980:
With all due respects, you are entitled to your own opinions. But perhaps you may want to consider before making blanket statements like grade 8 teachers could not teach well.Hi again.
To further clarify myself, if i had the opportunity to study under the tutelage of a teacher who was a lot more proficient (and who could also teach) at a young age, I believe I could have excelled much earlier as a serious musician.
This is because as a child I practiced many hours and experimented with different mediums of music on my own.
As for grade 8 teachers teaching a level grade 7 and beyond, sorry I cant agree with that still.
Im not wanting to gloat at all, but I've taught higher grade students who had grade 8 teachers; their technique and playing were so ruined. Musicianship very mechanical too. After a few months with me, the difference can be heard. Also partly because I am a very strict teacher and a stickler for details.
Im not interested in getting students here. This is an opportunity to share the side of a student and teacher of piano with all the parents here who are needing advice and ideas on choosing a good teacher.
If you desire your child to just play piano for fun and build up their interest, there are plenty of teachers out there. Like the one who just advertised above.
I think it boils down to what kind of a teacher a ABRSM grade 8 holder have that will determine his/her starting skillsets as a teacher. An ABRSM grade 8 holder who studied under a very systematic and competent teacher would have acquired knowledge of proper structure along with other necessary knowledge on how to impart technique and set repertoire plan.
A grade 8 holder who only worked on exam pieces without any form of technical regime will most likely teach the same way when he/she become a teacher himself/herself. A grade 8 holder who had a great teacher who set a broad and comprehensive repertoire plan with solid technical regime will most likely set similar examples to his/her students.
Having great teachers post grade 8 do not necessarily translate to instant ability to teach the grades well. I practically had no proper instructions up to my grade 8; I had to self-study for my grade 8 ABRSM. But when I studied full-time in NAFA, I studied under some of the arguably best teachers in Singapore and managed to fix and bring my playing standard to professional level. But yet, when I started teaching, I fumbled my way around at least for the first couple years. Although I had excellent Diploma/Bachelor level teachers, I had no point of reference to what is a good graded level teacher. So I had to experiment and research practical teaching techniques. Those who studied with me from early part of my career could see the transformation of my teaching technique, but I regret that I was not well-equipped early and there were some less successful cases that I could have avoided easily. -
Hello Dreamaurora, I do agree with you too.
It is true I sometimes dont consider properly what I post here as im basically touch and go. Anyone is free to agree and disagree with me. There are plenty of grade 8 holders who may sometimes teach a whole lot better than post 8 holders. Teaching comes with experience, whenever a student comes along their problems are different from the next. The variables of teaching each one is endless and each time we learn better how to communicate as we teach. This only comes with experience for whatever holder you are. I know that. I have been emphasizing again and again that the grade 8 holder without any upgrade (whether they want to have a cert or not doesnt matter) MAY be insufficient TO TEACH HIGHER GRADES. May be insufficient. We may be talking about two different ideas already. I know i might be slammed for my comments and opinions. Though I never truly said grade 8 holders dont teach well. If I may seem to implicate that? This is an awareness to the cause.
Im obliged to share this why? Because it has been probably my 12th student who had grade 8 teachers teaching them highers grades, and potentially musical wonderful students who could not play up to their potential. These grade 8 teachers had been teaching for years too. Unfortunately their own skill is limited.
Yes there are magnificent grade 8 holders who probably have taught grade 8 well having themselves had competent teachers. I happen to have the experience of many those who couldn’t.
I myself have had errors in my early teaching years despite having had a competent teacher through my grades and wide repertoire. I would say that me personally, improved a whole lot in my teaching due to going beyond that limited grade 8 repertoire standard.
I know I might have forgotten some things I wanted to point out but with this I rest my case. -
ipiano1980:
Hi again.
To further clarify myself, if i had the opportunity to study under the tutelage of a teacher who was a lot more proficient (and who could also teach) at a young age, I believe I could have excelled much earlier as a serious musician.
This is because as a child I practiced many hours and experimented with different mediums of music on my own.
As for grade 8 teachers teaching a level grade 7 and beyond, sorry I cant agree with that still.
Im not wanting to gloat at all, but I've taught higher grade students who had grade 8 teachers; their technique and playing were so ruined. Musicianship very mechanical too. After a few months with me, the difference can be heard. Also partly because I am a very strict teacher and a stickler for details.
Im not interested in getting students here. This is an opportunity to share the side of a student and teacher of piano with all the parents here who are needing advice and ideas on choosing a good teacher.
If you desire your child to just play piano for fun and build up their interest, there are plenty of teachers out there. Like the one who just advertised above.
Hi ipiano1980.
I agree largely with what you have said. You've articulated your views very well. I am puzzled by only one point. In the last paragraph, you made reference to a teacher who 'advertised above'. May I please know how you came to a conclusion that that teacher is, like many other teachers, suited for fun learning only as opposed to serious learning? How can a parent discern if the teacher is the 'for fun' type or the 'serious' type? Also, what if I would like my child to do serious stuff but at the same time have fun and build up interest? Are there teachers that can offer the best of both worlds? Thank you in advance for clarifying. -
Hi joyofmusic,
Thats a good and very tough question to answer. So tough it will have people disliking my views. I will still try to reply a quick one.
Pardon me if I sounded offensive I apologise and my bad for writing that. I like the idea of anonymity due to freedom of expression and opinions. I write without thinking twice and could be more respectful too.
If someone posts out things on the internet, they are allowing others to judge them freely as how people now might judge me for my choice of words.
Im sorry perhaps I was judging from the videos that I watched there. What you post in your own website is probably to showcase somesort right? So you are showcasing to the world to judge. The world can be harsh or nice.
Though in the end music is still about enjoying oneself. I also saw very good things there.Student and teacher good relationship is 1stly most important. You have a super fun loving teacher that inspires you to love music that’s really great.
There are other great teachers and fun serious teachers too. All kinds.
Im learning a new instrument. When I checked out the potential teachers who had websites, I looked out for few things
1- quality of their students playing
2 -quality of teacher’s own playing
3- experience and credentials of the teacher.
4- teacher has to be strict to correct technical/musical problems
Not all students might want these ideals but this is my personal criteria. There are many teachers that can offer these out there. So if I see majority of their students of all age play sloppily than well, then I would start to think that the teacher didnt correct them enough and they are playing for ‘fun’. (Yet maybe im too quick to judge. Sorry too late to edit previous post out)
I can say this because my younger students if they want to, can play pretty alright. So yes young students can play well. Now how would parents know what is sloppy or not? That’s not easy at all to answer. For me I say sloppy is just a bunch of notes/sounds with no sense of rhythm and beat. No sense of balance between right and left hand.
Oh yes there are many teachers out there offer flexibility of serious and fun. I think many of teachers who written here can offer that. What is serious and fun to me is having a student play classical and also pop pieces they like, yet making sure their technical skills never falter just because they are playing pop. Pop mostly is much less taxing and MAY be more easily executed without much technical problem. So balance of the piece, melodic curve without bumps etc. still has to be applied beautifully. Maybe thats what I think serious is. To honour the music. To bring even the young child to a more mature sense of playing.
I keep saying there are many this and that teachers because there are just many many piano teachers to choose from. Many good and average teachers.
So its this forum that parents come to be more aware about the market.
I accompanied some string players for exam. One of their ßteacher was a bachelor holder from a good conservatory. His pupils were technically poor players and his skills werent good too from what I watched. The parents of course are in the dark about it. It wasnt in my place to recommend them a better teacher. But this clearly shows that its not easy to know who is sufficient or not until you try another teacher out when something might not be working well for a long time. Thats where you learn. He happened to be mentioned in this thread much much much earlier but I shall not reveal who anyway.
If people are offended, constructive criticism is for the better of whom is involved. I shall be more tactful now too. I hope I answered all your queries properly in this manner. Thanks again. -
I’ve finally perused the website and youtube channel of ‘the teacher who advertised above’. Certainly I would like to see what his students could achieve in an actual performance setting with complete and well rehearsed pieces, perhaps another way to look at it is he uploaded those videos as documentation of his students’ progress.
Personally I feel it is impossible to separate the seriousness of piano learning from the fun of it. I always made it clear to my students and their parents that although playing and performing piano can be a highly satisfying and fulfilling experience, the process of practicing the pieces and acquiring technique is not. There is a lot of grinding and repetition involved along with discipline to be self-critical of one’s playing.
Like what I have mentioned before in the Violin thread teachers who chose to neglect the foundations just so the students can finish the pieces faster and therefore enjoy the playing part quicker risk having the students hit a ‘wall’ later on when they progress to intermediate or advanced level. It is indeed a delicate balance to negotiate, for young kids especially it is hard to push them to fix their sloppy playing and technique if they are not mentally mature yet. While this obviously is exasperating and I do have a few cases like this in my teaching practice, all I can do is slowly develop their sensitivity and desire to play well.
It is indeed hard to judge a teacher’s true capability as variables may be constantly changing. Let’s say we evaluate a teacher based on his/her ability to play well. But most established teachers seldom or never perform anymore due to their teaching commitments. And when they do perform, they are no longer at their prime. I remembered when I was in NAFA there were concert series featuring the Diploma teachers engaged to teach the students there. Some of these teachers, who are quite well-known locally, looked uncomfortable on the stage and played only so-so. I am sure they once were very capable pianists, but it is indeed very difficult to maintain a full teaching studio to make a comfortable living and still maintain a practice regime (I often had to sleep at 1 or 2 am just to ensure sufficient practice). So that is why I am sympathetic to these teachers and their students also understand this.
Judging a teacher’s students’ standard can be a tricky business also. Unless a teacher has a long waiting list and able to cherry pick only the absolute best students who are suitable for his/her studio, most teachers will often have to make do with students of various types. Even a lot of established teachers are feeling the heat from increased competition. I remembered back when I first attended the late Ong Lip Tat’s student concert back when I was still a teenager in early 2000s I was extremely impressed by the high standards throughout, but many years later when I attended his student concert again, I noticed the standards had dropped, even one of the teacher who sat nearby me remarked that some of the students did not sound like typical Ong Lip Tat’s students. Does this mean he had became more sloppy in enforcing his standard? No, it’s just that as the years passed there are a lot more competition to get the best students and he no longer had the cherry pick.
Without the high quality students who could fully realize a teacher’s ideal and vision, a teacher may not be able to truly showcase what he/she is capable of. In early part of my career, I had to teach in music school and accept any students thrown at me. Even for sourcing for my own private students, I could not be picky. So the standards of my students early on were erratic, and understandably some people questioned my consistency in teaching. Now that I am gaining more recognition, I have recently obtained more students who are truly very capable and could work well with me. Now I could more easily realize my teaching vision and I hope that my true capability as a teacher could be demonstrated in these students. -
Hello Dreamaurora
It is good to have a teacher who has a neutral view on an objective subject. I really respect that.
Okay - Firstly I decided those videos could have been showcasing
1- what he can produce,
2- documentation of his students progress in a non serious setting or
3-to show classical music can also be seen as a fun non serious subject.
Actually there are so many and no one correct reply on an objective subject. What you wrote is absolutely correct too and i agree because this subject had been discussed many times.
I gave a biased view and I happen to give only one particular view within that time frame.
Another way to look at how learning can be serious and fun is this: you learn one piece thoroughly and another of the student’s choice. Request if the student would like to learn the piece thoroughly too or just play good enough for fun. We teachers can be flexible. Students dont really have the advantage of time these days due to school workload.
The word serious is subjective. Do we mean serious as in it is boring and can be seen as foreboding (here picture beethoven’s grumpy face) or do we mean serious as in you have to be drilled into getting everything just right? Even an easier and fun piece will still take some level of drilling.
Classical isnt actually very boring and so seriously bland and boring if you drill a certain positive philosophy into your students/child. I have my own which takes stages depending on their age, and sometimes if they achieve that mastery they clap and cheer with joy. It sounds ridiculous but it happens. They eventually appreciate the intricities within classical music and those who still couldn’t there are other ways to encourage.
The word fun is also subjective but I dont want to go off topic again.
I agree completely on getting a good violin foundation for violin students.
Okay about evaluation of teacher’s playing. That I agree with you and understand where you are getting at. I also struggle with keeping up my practices to maintain the level I am at. Without practices you tend to lose touch bit by bit.
Your website for example. Some teachers do post their own playing some dont. Im not necessarily saying to play like flamboyant pieces also. You happen to play quite a bit of lower to intermediate pieces. This already people can judge from the quality that you played as a teacher. If teacher cant play those lower- intermediate pieces well then that’s a different story.
If I written something incorrect my apologies I write till here for now. -
Thanks ipiano1980 for your detailed clarification. All you have said makes perfect sense. I too believe in getting a good teacher right from the start. However, parents with limited musical knowledge will still find it difficult to select a teacher just from watching the videos. Any advice for such parents?
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ipiano1980:
I think musicians like most artists tend to be very opinionated and often have strong feelings in regards to their beliefs and philosophies. To be honest, it is indeed very hard to be objective and neutral in this field. Some of the things I had heard uttered by some established local teachers regarding their competitions astonished me. I myself had regretted some of the things I have said before, but I have since learnt to give more thoughts to my words and to try to maintain cordial relationships with as many musicians as possible. I think it's important to keep an open mind as exchanging ideas with other teachers without prejudice or bias is important part of our journey to improve our teaching.Hello Dreamaurora
It is good to have a teacher who has a neutral view on an objective subject. I really respect that.
Okay - Firstly I decided those videos could have been showcasing
1- what he can produce,
2- documentation of his students progress in a non serious setting or
3-to show classical music can also be seen as a fun non serious subject.
Actually there are so many and no one correct reply on an objective subject. What you wrote is absolutely correct too and i agree because this subject had been discussed many times.
I gave a biased view and I happen to give only one particular view within that time frame.
Another way to look at how learning can be serious and fun is this: you learn one piece thoroughly and another of the student's choice. Request if the student would like to learn the piece thoroughly too or just play good enough for fun. We teachers can be flexible. Students dont really have the advantage of time these days due to school workload.
The word serious is subjective. Do we mean serious as in it is boring and can be seen as foreboding (here picture beethoven's grumpy face) or do we mean serious as in you have to be drilled into getting everything just right? Even an easier and fun piece will still take some level of drilling.
Classical isnt actually very boring and so seriously bland and boring if you drill a certain positive philosophy into your students/child. I have my own which takes stages depending on their age, and sometimes if they achieve that mastery they clap and cheer with joy. It sounds ridiculous but it happens. They eventually appreciate the intricities within classical music and those who still couldn't there are other ways to encourage.
The word fun is also subjective but I dont want to go off topic again.
I agree completely on getting a good violin foundation for violin students.
Okay about evaluation of teacher's playing. That I agree with you and understand where you are getting at. I also struggle with keeping up my practices to maintain the level I am at. Without practices you tend to lose touch bit by bit.
Your website for example. Some teachers do post their own playing some dont. Im not necessarily saying to play like flamboyant pieces also. You happen to play quite a bit of lower to intermediate pieces. This already people can judge from the quality that you played as a teacher. If teacher cant play those lower- intermediate pieces well then that's a different story.
If I written something incorrect my apologies I write till here for now. -
joyofmusic:
Thanks ipiano1980 for your detailed clarification. All you have said makes perfect sense. I too believe in getting a good teacher right from the start. However, parents with limited musical knowledge will still find it difficult to select a teacher just from watching the videos. Any advice for such parents?
Just chiming in this discussion.
Videos and concerts I agree may not tell the whole story of how a teacher conducts his/her teaching practice. Though they are useful indicators of what kind of standards or progress the teacher can achieve in the students.
Even with concrete teaching qualifications (such as a Teaching Diploma by one of the exam boards) certifying the teacher's technical ability to teach, parents still have to ensure the teacher is a good fit for the child. It is important I think to communicate and clarify points related to the learning at point of enquiry or trial lesson. For example, let's say the parents plan for the child to take the exam, the parents will need to check if the teacher is familiar with the syllabi and could formulate a concrete progression plan leading towards the exam. Another example, let's say the child likes contemporary and pop music; the parents would want to check that the teacher is open minded towards such music and would not mind teaching them. -
Hi joyofmusic and thanks for the question.
Yes actually you both make really good points and that is correct. I agree.
Its hard to tell really. I cant give a good answer to that but Dreamaurora is pretty spot on those points when u start out.
Okay, usually about any child would make it through at least grades 1-3 … maybe grade 4 or grade 5 with ANY type of teacher. It is only when they hit a wall when they reach the early/ late intermediate stage. Which is even as early as grade 4. When the child start struggling through the pieces and cant seem to overcome the difficulty anymore. That is when the red alert should start flashing. Now immediately we should probably consider:
1- is my child sufficiently practicing on a regular regimen
(Not 5-10 mins daily regimen but more. Even alternate days are good)
2-is my child correcting the mistakes or randomly practicing
3- am I encouraging my child enough with piano playing
4- is my child behaving well in class and understanding what the teacher is teaching?
So if those are mostly no then, work on that first.
If mostly yes, then time to have a discussion with the teacher on how they or yourself can help more but hopefully no finger pointing and such. Be open to the teacher’s suggestion…and if all fails for sometime, then the parent might want to find a 2nd opinion with another teacher and see how that works out.
I think a teacher should -at least - be able to demonstrate even short short phrases to a student. Some short passages are tough to execute and if the teacher cant execute them, they cant overcome the difficulty for their own student.
At the initial stage, a parent can also request to sit in and see how both teacher and student relate and communicate to each other.
This is all I can think of for now. Thanks.
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