How much is enough for retirement in Singapore?

[sharonkhoo]

lee_yl\" post_id=\"1937593\" time=\"1569515579\" user_id=\"17023:

I see. Thanks H for sharing.
...
There’s a cautionary tale; Hubby told me he didn’t know his mum’s “net worth”. He thought the family was extremely poor. One night, when still a teenager, he was so hungry, he opened the fridge and the fridge was bare except for 1 bottle of chili sauce which he gulped down to fill his growling tummy. Years later when he saw his mum’s bank book (got a few zeros), he was really put off. My MIL is very thrifty but somehow, my DH and SIL aren’t, what they fancy, they will just buy. Cos DH told me they 穷到怕. So a “village living” kid may still grow up to like “city living”. And I also have friends growing up in “city living”, yet are still humble and frugal.

There's a balance to be sought somewhere. I never knew my parents \"net worth\" either, and although we lived fairly well by most standards, it was well under what they could afford. I never really understood what my parents could or couldn't afford till I was an adult. They have become more willing to spend as they age, which is fine as they money is theirs; what I don't like is that they spoil the grandchildren a lot, and often undo the parents' teaching! That's another story for another day. We are fairly frank with our kids now that they are adult, so they know the extent of help we can give them.

Back to retirement planning with property - one of my sil is very into buying property for investment, and she is really good at nosing out deals. It takes a lot of interest, some time and effort, holding power during bad spells, and that \"nose\"! We don't have that interest (maybe because we never got into it), and maintaining and renting out property also takes time and effort. In a way, I'm happy that we don't have to decide whether to buy another property or not; just planning to downsize sounds hugely troublesome already!

And yes, property can be illiquid, so it's best if you still have other liquid assets besides the property for emergencies. And sharing out property after the owner passes on can be a problem too.

[Cloud Cloud]

Property is illiquid. Especially during downturn. Took me almost 9 months to sell one property.


Cpf only start payout from age 65. Ideal to have annuity fund which start payout from age 50 or 55.

No money for annuity plan now. All thrown into property.

[hercules]

MrsKiasu\" post_id=\"1937587\" time=\"1569512342\" user_id=\"43981:

from what I read and understand...H would like to take care and pass down her assets not only to her kids but also her siblings..so instead of the whole/big chunk going into 1 property which would probably need to be sold in order to share the proceeds among all these people who she cares alot, she will now have multiple individual plans to give all of them, one each.

On the plan itself, if you want to enjoy the fruits yourself, you will choose higher payouts but if you intend to pass down the principal to next generation then you draw lower amount during your life time. Hope that is correct hehe..

You are absolutely right!

Maybe to make the explanation of endowment vs legacy type of annuity clearer (very rough numbers below just for illustration purposes):

ENDOWMENT TYPE
Pay $20,000/year for 10 years.
Wait for x number of years (let’s say 5 years later)
Receive $20,000/year for maybe 20 years and then policy terminates.
If die before 20 years, any residual goes to beneficiary.

LEGACY TYPE
Pay $200,000 single premium
Wait for x number of years (still assume 5 years)
Received $10,000/year for life.
During lifetime, can give/assign the policy to a third party (such as I assign each to my siblings and kids).
Each continues to receive $10,000/year for life.
After each dies, the $200,000 +1% nominal death benefit goes to their respective beneficiary (it’s usually capital guaranteed after x number of years.’Usually’ coz so far I know they are so but maybe there are alternative plans out there that may not be so.)
If I don’t assign before I pass, then policy terminates and $200,000 + 1% given to my beneficiary.

[doodbug]

Thanks to everyone who has shared insight on retirement planning. I must be one of the later ones to start thinking about retirement - perhaps I’ve been prompted to think about it this year no thanks to Eldershield calls (when one turns 40, you get letters and phone calls on Eldershield!?!) and the Government now calls me an Elder Duh.


At this point, we don’t know if we will need to ‘rescue’ the kids in having to fund overseas university education. If they study locally, then I do think it makes a huge difference to retirement planning. For example, if one has set aside $400k in savings for kids’ uni education, and this sum is not touched, then it can go a long way in drawing down from age 55. Provides 2k monthly for 16.7 years on a draw down basis, assuming no interest.

Having one fully paid up property (HDB or suburban condo, excluding the one you are residing in) at age 55 can help to generate an income of about $2k to $2.5k monthly rental net of all costs (property tax, maintenance and what not). The monthly income will get a ‘boost’ of about 2k at age 65 when CPF Life kicks in, assuming one procures the Enhanced CPF Life plan.

First I think I need to learn to cut expenses. As a working mom, I think I tend to splurge too much on silly online shopping.

I’ve always been fearful of insurance policies (even Life policies) as I am afraid if I’m out of a job or something, and cannot keep up with the premium repayment. Hence my insurance coverage is low and I bump up primarily on protection, and not on the investment aspects.

[MyPillow]

i was quite pushed onto Legacy plan by financial planner few yr ago.

abt $ 300 to $500K premium - to us its like "Wow and what" -
it is something i cant afford at this moment for legacy plan - I am thinking then might as well i clear my mortgage -will it be better… (?)
wait till all our kids education are done , and by mid 50s - see how much we left to consider our Legacy.
it is really putting a big sum early early and let it grow till decades later to draw even to next gen if the senior pass on.
A good plan if we still have a lot of spare cash after considering - property , education, basic needs etc BUT '
v Expensive Upfront layout

[doodbug]

seems scary to hand over $500k to some company - insurer goes bust how?

$500k in cash also not a great idea - can get cheated or lured into some investment product. When you don’t lock it up, you may be tempted to use it for some relative’s need or something.
Really need some diversification, balance of flexibility/liquidity etc.

[tyeogh]

Here’s a neat trick re liquidity. You can keep re-financing your property to draw out cash. Assume you pay 25% downpayment. You collect 4 years of rent. Your tenant helped you pay 4 years of principle and interest. Your property is now paid 30% paid. You need cash. You can refinance your property. Your bank lends you up to 75% again. Your min down is 25% and your property is 30% paid. So you can draw out 5% in cash. This is assuming your property price remains the same. When your property valuation increases, you can draw out more cash. So liquidity is not an issue.

[doodbug]

Is refinancing subject to TDSR and age?

[tyeogh]

doodbug\" post_id=\"1937649\" time=\"1569551086\" user_id=\"13281:

I've always been fearful of insurance policies (even Life policies) as I am afraid if I'm out of a job or something, and cannot keep up with the premium repayment. Hence my insurance coverage is low and I bump up primarily on protection, and not on the investment aspects.

I don't have any endowment / investment related insurance plans. Same reason. Scary for a company to keep so much of my money. But i do have hospital and surgical insurance for my entire family. I recommend this is a minimum for everyone. Medical cost can only go up. Insuring against it protects your retirement plan. Bec when you or your loved ones get cancer, you sure are going go sell your home to pay for treatment. So it is wise to buy medical insurance.

Unfortunately, our G followed Obamacare somewhere in 2015; mandated medical insurance for all. And as with the failings of Obamacare, our medical insurance premiums shot through the roof. Mine doubled last year! :mad:

[tyeogh]

doodbug\" post_id=\"1937684\" time=\"1569555614\" user_id=\"13281:

Is refinancing subject to TDSR and age?

Yes, unfortunately. You can count in your rental as income.