Choosing and Evaluating Primary Schools
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zac's mum\" post_id=\"2032352\" time=\"1627715414\" user_id=\"53606:[quote=\"zac's mum\" post_id=2032352 time=1627715414 user_id=53606]
Thanks zac’s mum. looking at that level for higher chinese etc, the kids will have to undergo enrichment classes in pre school and throughout their primary school journey. So it is whether our child can endure the mountain of homework, enrichment classes to keep up, and for parents whether that’s the childhood that they want their children to grow up in, and i guess be a tiger mummy too because somehow our children will resist every now and then to this stressful regime of high standard.mummyvolk\" post_id=\"2032344\" time=\"1627711404\" user_id=\"192657:Just go to this website or Google free exam papers SG primary 1. There you can see what the kids will be tested on. Look for 2019 and earlier, since in 2020 content was cut due to Covid. https://www.sgtestpaper.com/primary/download_2019/y19_p1_HChinese_Tao_Nan_test3_paper.html
You can compare across schools, the varying difficulty of the papers.
Eg P1 year-end exam for Tao Nan:
https://www.sgtestpaper.com/primary/test_papers_2019/primary_1_chinese/P1_HChinese_2019_Tao_Nan_test3_Papers.pdf -
Touch_me_not\" post_id=\"2032357\" time=\"1627717520\" user_id=\"187786:
my girl current kindergarten chinese class also conduct quiz, where the first to obtain 10 points will receive a prize ie an eraser. haha. small
Some competitive activities do exist in preschools, both in classroom as well as outdoors. For instance, in my child's preschool, some teachers assign number grades for each word they can recognize correctly. I have heard kids who regularly discuss, who get perfect numbers, and who often get the lowest, and how they want to either maintain perfect scores or \"always want 100\", similarly, there are kids who are not too bothered. My own spouse memorized his classmates' grades throughout primary (since P1), secondary and JC for the sole purpose of \"wanting to beat\" them in grades! He acknowledged of course looking back, it was very silly, but yes he fit in very well in that kind of environment. In a different preschool, a friend's daughter tells her mom which kids are behind her in terms of lessons and was very unhappy when a new boy was better in answering questions. Also have seen a kid who gets nervous when other kids do better, that becomes his motivation in striving to do better. So I believe there are certain traits kids display during preschool years that possibly enable them to fit in highly competitive schools naturally.mummyvolk\" post_id=\"2032344\" time=\"1627711404\" user_id=\"192657:
To be candid, at tender age of 6, most if not all children are not place in a competitive environment yet. Where did they ever have? Childcare and kindergarten are mainly play and non test and no homework. They are not involve in competitions nor a scoring system per say. So how do we know if they can adapt or even excel in a competitive school?
gift but highly motivating. my girl won a few times, will happily show to me. Small little steps to ease into primary level education culture. but don’t think kids comprehend the gravity of exam results or deal with acedemic pressure yet. Right now children are already fighting to be “winners” over each other. but the magnitude is incomparable to the stress level in schools especially effort render to achieve the standard. -
mummyvolk\" post_id=\"2032401\" time=\"1627749171\" user_id=\"192657:
my girl current kindergarten chinese class also conduct quiz, where the first to obtain 10 points will receive a prize ie an eraser. haha. small
Some competitive activities do exist in preschools, both in classroom as well as outdoors. For instance, in my child's preschool, some teachers assign number grades for each word they can recognize correctly. I have heard kids who regularly discuss, who get perfect numbers, and who often get the lowest, and how they want to either maintain perfect scores or \"always want 100\", similarly, there are kids who are not too bothered. My own spouse memorized his classmates' grades throughout primary (since P1), secondary and JC for the sole purpose of \"wanting to beat\" them in grades! He acknowledged of course looking back, it was very silly, but yes he fit in very well in that kind of environment. In a different preschool, a friend's daughter tells her mom which kids are behind her in terms of lessons and was very unhappy when a new boy was better in answering questions. Also have seen a kid who gets nervous when other kids do better, that becomes his motivation in striving to do better. So I believe there are certain traits kids display during preschool years that possibly enable them to fit in highly competitive schools naturally.Touch_me_not\" post_id=\"2032357\" time=\"1627717520\" user_id=\"187786:
[quote=mummyvolk post_id=2032344 time=1627711404 user_id=192657]To be candid, at tender age of 6, most if not all children are not place in a competitive environment yet. Where did they ever have? Childcare and kindergarten are mainly play and non test and no homework. They are not involve in competitions nor a scoring system per say. So how do we know if they can adapt or even excel in a competitive school?
gift but highly motivating. my girl won a few times, will happily show to me. Small little steps to ease into primary level education culture. but don’t think kids comprehend the gravity of exam results or deal with acedemic pressure yet. Right now children are already fighting to be “winners” over each other. but the magnitude is incomparable to the stress level in schools especially effort render to achieve the standard.[/quote]
Agree with you on the last part. I would say sometimes, it's also the parents who encourage certain behaviors. My friend is very proud of her kid's \"don't want to lose\" attitude, so kids may very well pick up their parents' subtle messages. -
It’s ok to be 好胜, sometimes the personality is inborn. Just be careful to equip the child with how to deal with disappointments cos it’s not possible to win every single match & competition.
You can tell Joseph Schooling has had that “want to win” attitude since 3 year old or whenever, when he dragged his dad out of bed to drive him to early morning swim training. However, he is not a sore loser and is still able to produce a gracious speech after losing his crown.
Similarly for Amita Berthier, i read that she is highly competitive even during family board games. It mustn’t have been easy losing to her very close friend in an early round of the Olympics, but she knows not to let her bitterness show (at least not in public).
https://www.straitstimes.com/lifestyle/fencer-driven-by-hunger-to-win -
I do apologise in advance if this post is rather long but it will be a give a very good guide, reassurance (for some parents) and even exposure on some myths (on how most parents, residing in Singapore evaluate and select primary schools).
Firstly, I am a bit appalled and even a bit amused (at the same time) from reading the 1000 odd post that have been posted here for the last 10 years or so. It seems apparent that most parents are trying desperately hard to get their kids into the best schools by either volunteering or even changing address (less than a km away). Some teachers are also equally guilty of changing schools they teach (when their kid in born, to give them an advantage in selecting an earlier phase). Have these parents ever stopped, pulled the hand brake, and just for a moment thought that the school may be elite (in terms of academics) but what about the pressure cooker style their kid has to go through. Have these parents ever evaluated their own kids for a change (his/her character, attitude, maturity level, intelligence etc). Some kids blossom in this kind of competitive environment but many wither away in terms of the emotional development that is hindered due to their perception they have developed about their peers and vice versa. I will explain this opinion with a factual experience my cousin shared with me regarding his son who is now studying in Nanyang Primary. According to him, his son is topping the class in Mandarin and not being a native speaker of the language, his classmates see him as a threat and a competition to their own achievements. He has never ever been called on play date let alone a birthday celebration by one of his classmates and neither has he ever reciprocated the deed. The point is that after everything is said and done at the end of Primary 6, you are just left with the academic transcript. There are no emotional attachments or even friendships that have developed that can last a lifetime. This leads to incomplete development of EQ that the child needs when he/she starts his/her professional career. It is generally an accepted fact that to be successful in leadership positions, one must have both EQ and IQ. I am not concluding that your child might end up in a similar situation as described above but it is definitely a much higher chance of this occurring in elite schools. This is key consideration parents must be willing to accept when selecting top primary schools.
Secondly, most parents selecting elite schools have a very narrow mind set that if their kid enters one of these schools he/she will automatically do well (academically) as he/she will be driven by other classmates of similar mentality. This is a myth and it is very worrying for these parents when they get a reality check in the upper primary. They have forgotten that one’s own ability is not just driven by hardwork alone. There is a word called ‘intelligence’. With all the money and resources in the world you cannot buy intelligence. You either have plenty of it, some of it or none of it. To put this into a perspective, let’s say you are a kid of above average intelligence is going to score say 225 (old system) for PSLE. With hardwork, money, the school’s resources, and the best tutors to help you, maybe you can push the grade up to 235. Another student from an average primary school who is intelligent normally scores around 240 can easily push his / her grades up to 255 if / she chooses to do so even without the money and the best tutors cause these resources carry very little weight when compared to intelligence. For example, an above average student will not be able to solve the last 3 questions of the maths paper which a smart student will be able to do so. This is where the grades will differ. The fact remains that there is there is no point trying to push an average kid or a slightly better than average kid into a best school cause at the end of the day, he /she will still lose out to those kids that are smarter and as hard working as them. This is when these parents will wake up and get a reality check that there are so many bigger fishes in the ocean that are better than the little elite school of fish that their kid is exposed too.
To make matters worse, I realise parents seem to be selecting primary schools based on their popularity (past achievements) rather than considering that the present dynamics which might have changed in the school. When I mean by dynamics, I am referring to the change of principal, staff as well as the existing attitude of the students as compared to like say 10 years ago. With technological advancements and children spending more time on smart phones and less time on their books, there is no guarantee which type of students the school may inherit in primary 1. Before selecting the Primary school, the parent just cannot assume that a popular school is automatically a good school. Research (like asking present teachers, neighbours, existing students) needs to be carried out. One classic example is CHIJ (Queen Lady Of Peace) which is ranked 162 out of 200 in popularity (take up rate in Primary 1 registration) but when you compare the last official PSLE data published by MOE in 2015, you realise the percentage of A*- A students for English and Chinese beat the elite school of SJI Junior by 5%. Ignorance and insufficient research leads to all this unnecessary rat race for the top elite schools when the fact remains is that that these parents believe the school is elite based on past track records but have no idea that the school might have slipped out being elite in current times.
This brings back me back to the question of how I selected the Primary School of my choice. My boy is currently in Primary 1 in SJI Junior and even though its 14km away from my house, I am an old boy so decided to put him in there. The reason is not because it an elite school, (in fact the boys only average a score of 218 mean for PSLE (old system), which means only 20% of them can make it a very good secondary school) but I did not want to end up in the balloting system for schools like De Lasselle, St Anthony Primary as well as South View Primary. If the take up rate was average in these schools I would put him there as his achievements in PSLE would not depend on the school he in (that is a very low contributing factor), but rather on his own intelligence and hard work. I am 100% certain that if my son was in say Chou Kang Primary School and he is more intelligent that someone in Nanyang Primary, he would outshine him in PSLE results. I say this not because of a gut feel but by comparing past students from relatives, friends and colleagues who have passed through the primary school system.
To put everything, I have said in a nutshell, if you belonged to an elite school, fine just register your kid in Phase 2A/B. If you do not, there is no point volunteering or even changing location when the baby is born to try to get into an elite school cause there is no guarantee of doing well (>240 PSLE old system) if your kid is just of average intelligence (which is where most of us, including me, belong). I would recommend targeting the 3rd or 4th best school in your area as there is some sort of motivation and drive for Phase 2C. Do not go for the lower end schools (in your area) as well as they may be filled with students who are not motivated and even if your kid in intelligent, he / she might not shine to his / her full potential due to lack of competition.
Disclaimer, this article is not written to offend anyone but rather to educate people on how to select Primary Schools so that this Kiasu mentality of parents can be eliminated.
* To know how intelligent one’s child is simply ask the K2 teacher and you will get a very good feel of how your kid is as compared to his peers, even though there is no test or assessments in pre-school. The teacher will definitely know which kids are more developed, matured, can handle pressure, as well as intelligent. With that information, you can then select the most appropriate school for your kid provided that school is available to you in the early phases.
I hope I have helped -
Well said…hopefully singapore will see more parents with such mentality.
Personally i think we should value effort over result more. Let the children know that just as long they have tried their best, everything will work out eventually. -
My kids were placed in the PCF kindy due to convenience. It’s learn thru play and we don’t really expect a lot from the kindy (what do you expect from a <$100/mth institution) and I don’t recall there being any PTM or turning up for one. When it comes to P1 registration, if I as a parent can help put the child into a popular (and with track record) school then why not? I think it is too early at preschool to judge whether kids can fit in etc.
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Imp75\" post_id=\"2033352\" time=\"1628220496\" user_id=\"2358:
Agree. Pre-school performance is not a judgement whether the kid will perform in primary school or how well is he doing compared to the rest. It is too early. My boy preschool has been telling me tht my boy is doing well in prschool but i took it as a pinch of salt as i know tht a pteson character and academy will fluatuate alot especially when they r in primary and secondary school. So give ur son or daughter a chance by giving them a better starting point if possible.
My kids were placed in the PCF kindy due to convenience. It's learn thru play and we don't really expect a lot from the kindy (what do you expect from a <$100/mth institution) and I don't recall there being any PTM or turning up for one. When it comes to P1 registration, if I as a parent can help put the child into a popular (and with track record) school then why not? I think it is too early at preschool to judge whether kids can fit in etc. -
Thanks for sharing, you certainly pointed out several good points and examples. Esp true in cases of students in elite schools + tuition and still scoring low in PSLE, while there are others from neighbourhood schools scoring 270++ These things happen. I do, however feel there are a few areas in which your general assumptions are oversimplified.
Firstly, I am a bit appalled and even a bit amused (at the same time) from reading the 1000 odd post that have been posted here for the last 10 years or so. It seems apparent that most parents are trying desperately hard to get their kids into the best schools by either volunteering or even changing address (less than a km away). Some teachers are also equally guilty of changing schools they teach (when their kid in born, to give them an advantage in selecting an earlier phase). Have these parents ever stopped, pulled the hand brake, and just for a moment thought that the school may be elite (in terms of academics) but what about the pressure cooker style their kid has to go through. Have these parents ever evaluated their own kids for a change (his/her character, attitude, maturity level, intelligence etc). Some kids blossom in this kind of competitive environment but many wither away in terms of the emotional development that is hindered due to their perception they have developed about their peers and vice versa.
I believe not everyone moves house for the sole purpose of sending their kids to highly academic pressure cooker school like Nanyang Primary (since you mentioned that particular school). Parents move house for for many other reasons (ie choosing religious schools or Clan based schools for their kids' character development/traditional values/religion). Next, there are also people I know who need to move because the only schools in their areas (1-2km) are elite school and lower end school which you suggest not to apply. There are also parents who move to be within 1km from their old primary schools to ensure entry. So, if they are moving because of whatever schools they want and can afford it, I don't see why not. Not all parents are keen to send their kids to schools that are 14km away from home.
One classic example is CHIJ (Queen Lady Of Peace) which is ranked 162 out of 200 in popularity (take up rate in Primary 1 registration) but when you compare the last official PSLE data published by MOE in 2015, you realise the percentage of A*- A students for English and Chinese beat the elite school of SJI Junior by 5%. Ignorance and insufficient research leads to all this unnecessary rat race for the top elite schools when the fact remains is that that these parents believe the school is elite based on past track records but have no idea that the school might have slipped out being elite in current times.
If you had looked through SJIJ thread, you would realize a lot of parents did/do not plan to send their boys for SJIJ's academic ranking, but rather for its well balanced curriculum and happy environment.
I am 100% certain that if my son was in say Chou Kang Primary School and he is more intelligent that someone in Nanyang Primary, he would outshine him in PSLE results.
Yes, I have no doubt about it. But PSLE result is not the only factor in primary school life. Like it or not, we have to admit that being in Nanyang exposes students to myriad of interesting activities, and experiencing the pride of being part of school with strong history and heritage is not something the kids can get in any random ABC school.Taran80\" post_id=\"2033330\" time=\"1628213940\" user_id=\"192302:
I do apologise in advance if this post is rather long but it will be a give a very good guide, reassurance (for some parents) and even exposure on some myths (on how most parents, residing in Singapore evaluate and select primary schools).
Firstly, I am a bit appalled and even a bit amused (at the same time) from reading the 1000 odd post that have been posted here for the last 10 years or so. It seems apparent that most parents are trying desperately hard to get their kids into the best schools by either volunteering or even changing address (less than a km away). Some teachers are also equally guilty of changing schools they teach (when their kid in born, to give them an advantage in selecting an earlier phase). Have these parents ever stopped, pulled the hand brake, and just for a moment thought that the school may be elite (in terms of academics) but what about the pressure cooker style their kid has to go through. Have these parents ever evaluated their own kids for a change (his/her character, attitude, maturity level, intelligence etc). Some kids blossom in this kind of competitive environment but many wither away in terms of the emotional development that is hindered due to their perception they have developed about their peers and vice versa. I will explain this opinion with a factual experience my cousin shared with me regarding his son who is now studying in Nanyang Primary. According to him, his son is topping the class in Mandarin and not being a native speaker of the language, his classmates see him as a threat and a competition to their own achievements. He has never ever been called on play date let alone a birthday celebration by one of his classmates and neither has he ever reciprocated the deed. The point is that after everything is said and done at the end of Primary 6, you are just left with the academic transcript. There are no emotional attachments or even friendships that have developed that can last a lifetime. This leads to incomplete development of EQ that the child needs when he/she starts his/her professional career. It is generally an accepted fact that to be successful in leadership positions, one must have both EQ and IQ. I am not concluding that your child might end up in a similar situation as described above but it is definitely a much higher chance of this occurring in elite schools. This is key consideration parents must be willing to accept when selecting top primary schools.
Secondly, most parents selecting elite schools have a very narrow mind set that if their kid enters one of these schools he/she will automatically do well (academically) as he/she will be driven by other classmates of similar mentality. This is a myth and it is very worrying for these parents when they get a reality check in the upper primary. They have forgotten that one’s own ability is not just driven by hardwork alone. There is a word called ‘intelligence’. With all the money and resources in the world you cannot buy intelligence. You either have plenty of it, some of it or none of it. To put this into a perspective, let’s say you are a kid of above average intelligence is going to score say 225 (old system) for PSLE. With hardwork, money, the school’s resources, and the best tutors to help you, maybe you can push the grade up to 235. Another student from an average primary school who is intelligent normally scores around 240 can easily push his / her grades up to 255 if / she chooses to do so even without the money and the best tutors cause these resources carry very little weight when compared to intelligence. For example, an above average student will not be able to solve the last 3 questions of the maths paper which a smart student will be able to do so. This is where the grades will differ. The fact remains that there is there is no point trying to push an average kid or a slightly better than average kid into a best school cause at the end of the day, he /she will still lose out to those kids that are smarter and as hard working as them. This is when these parents will wake up and get a reality check that there are so many bigger fishes in the ocean that are better than the little elite school of fish that their kid is exposed too.
To make matters worse, I realise parents seem to be selecting primary schools based on their popularity (past achievements) rather than considering that the present dynamics which might have changed in the school. When I mean by dynamics, I am referring to the change of principal, staff as well as the existing attitude of the students as compared to like say 10 years ago. With technological advancements and children spending more time on smart phones and less time on their books, there is no guarantee which type of students the school may inherit in primary 1. Before selecting the Primary school, the parent just cannot assume that a popular school is automatically a good school. Research (like asking present teachers, neighbours, existing students) needs to be carried out. One classic example is CHIJ (Queen Lady Of Peace) which is ranked 162 out of 200 in popularity (take up rate in Primary 1 registration) but when you compare the last official PSLE data published by MOE in 2015, you realise the percentage of A*- A students for English and Chinese beat the elite school of SJI Junior by 5%. Ignorance and insufficient research leads to all this unnecessary rat race for the top elite schools when the fact remains is that that these parents believe the school is elite based on past track records but have no idea that the school might have slipped out being elite in current times.
This brings back me back to the question of how I selected the Primary School of my choice. My boy is currently in Primary 1 in SJI Junior and even though its 14km away from my house, I am an old boy so decided to put him in there. The reason is not because it an elite school, (in fact the boys only average a score of 218 mean for PSLE (old system), which means only 20% of them can make it a very good secondary school) but I did not want to end up in the balloting system for schools like De Lasselle, St Anthony Primary as well as South View Primary. If the take up rate was average in these schools I would put him there as his achievements in PSLE would not depend on the school he in (that is a very low contributing factor), but rather on his own intelligence and hard work. I am 100% certain that if my son was in say Chou Kang Primary School and he is more intelligent that someone in Nanyang Primary, he would outshine him in PSLE results. I say this not because of a gut feel but by comparing past students from relatives, friends and colleagues who have passed through the primary school system.
To put everything, I have said in a nutshell, if you belonged to an elite school, fine just register your kid in Phase 2A/B. If you do not, there is no point volunteering or even changing location when the baby is born to try to get into an elite school cause there is no guarantee of doing well (>240 PSLE old system) if your kid is just of average intelligence (which is where most of us, including me, belong). I would recommend targeting the 3rd or 4th best school in your area as there is some sort of motivation and drive for Phase 2C. Do not go for the lower end schools (in your area) as well as they may be filled with students who are not motivated and even if your kid in intelligent, he / she might not shine to his / her full potential due to lack of competition.
Disclaimer, this article is not written to offend anyone but rather to educate people on how to select Primary Schools so that this Kiasu mentality of parents can be eliminated.
* To know how intelligent one’s child is simply ask the K2 teacher and you will get a very good feel of how your kid is as compared to his peers, even though there is no test or assessments in pre-school. The teacher will definitely know which kids are more developed, matured, can handle pressure, as well as intelligent. With that information, you can then select the most appropriate school for your kid provided that school is available to you in the early phases.
I hope I have helped -
Thanks for sharing, you certainly pointed out several good points and examples. Esp true in cases of students in elite schools + tuition and still scoring low in PSLE, while there are others from neighbourhood schools scoring 270++ These things happen. I do, however feel there are a few areas in which your general assumptions are oversimplified.
a) I believe not everyone moves house for the sole purpose of sending their kids to highly academic pressure cooker school like Nanyang Primary (since you mentioned that particular school). Parents move house for for many other reasons (ie choosing religious schools or Clan based schools for their kids’ character development/traditional values/religion). Next, there are also people I know who need to move because the only schools in their areas (1-2km) are elite school and lower end school which you suggest not to apply. There are also parents who move to be within 1km from their old primary schools to ensure entry. So, if they are moving because of whatever schools they want and can afford it, I don’t see why not. Not all parents are keen to send their kids to schools that are 14km away from home.
a) I guess to make things a bit more clearer. The post was not intended to educate those with genuine reasons for shifting locations but more to those who deliberately do it, hoping to get a head start in life. This a a myth. There is no such thing as a head start. This is what I have been explaining all along. Head start in life is the moment you are born smarter and more intelligent than other babies around you. Period. It is not influenced by the school you go to. So I have no complains against those whom do it for genuine reasons but those whom purposely move less than a km away (when they have no previous links with the school), or teachers suddenly teaching a secondary school then next you hear they they have become primary school teachers (of one of the top 20 popular primary school cause their kid has just been born) or even parents volunteering when clearly they are doing it not cause of passion but more cause of a requirement. This is my case of argument. At the end all of this effort goes to waste when from being in the top 20 primary schools, these kids cannot even make it to to top 50 secondary schools cause their grades are not good enough when compared to the whole population. Why not start with humble beginnings and work you way up. Perfect example is Pritam Singh. He started with humble beginnings and is probably more successful and most or every single one of us. Something to ponder about.
b) If you had looked through SJIJ thread, you would realize a lot of parents did/do not plan to send their boys for SJIJ’s academic ranking, but rather for its well balanced curriculum and happy environment.
b) I have to disagree with this. This is what they claim and write but when you meet them in person the body language, and they way they portray themselves, you can clearly see they do not care about the happy environment. There are some, those parents are artist or are into sports and one parent whom I met will be migrating when the kid finishes his PSLE that do not really care and prefer the happy environment. It may be a bit harsh for me to say this but most are throwing a smoke screen (I have no way of proving this but is just the body language and how they come across. It likes your CV when applying for a job. Everyone makes it seems they are the most appropriate candidate but when the interview takes places, you realize a lot of stuff in there is a fluff.)
c) Yes, I have no doubt about it. But PSLE result is not the only factor in primary school life. Like it or not, we have to admit that being in Nanyang exposes students to myriad of interesting activities, and experiencing the pride of being part of school with strong history and heritage is not something the kids can get in any random ABC school.
c) I guess there is some truth to it but again what is culture and heritage? These keep changing when the principal and school teachers change. After 30 years of changing principals and school teachers the new group might not even care about heritage. Its just radiating out of the walls, that all. Some part if it is retained but a lot of it gets lost as the baton changes hands. Alot of teachers are not so passionate as say 30 years ago. They do this cause the salary is good. Again I cannot prove the numbers, it just boils down to the vibes you get from them after discussion. If there is no passion then other things like heritage and culture have no purpose as these qualities will not radiate from the teachers.
Thks for sharing your thoughts as well. I just completed phase 2C of my second child.
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