Choosing and Evaluating Primary Schools
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Zeal mummy\" post_id=\"2033574\" time=\"1628356924\" user_id=\"58173:[quote=\"Zeal mummy\" post_id=2033574 time=1628356924 user_id=58173]
My counter arguments.
More sleep means better attention span, in turn more learning will take place. Proximity has other advantages, like less $ on transport fees, more friends in the same neighbourhood that goes to the same school, getting home quickly for lunch, possible choice for project work at your home, easier for parents to keep an eye on what’s happening around the school. Probably more…[/quote]
Sleep is a function of how much time you sleep, not how near you are.
< 1km but wake up to catch the school bus at 6am or > 2km away but wake up to catch the school bus at 6am?
How much extra time you get to sleep from being near? 30 mins? If you have a problem with attention span because you have 30 lesser mins of sleep, I suspect you have other issues to worry about.
You save $ if you walk, not if you intend to drive, take school bus, or public transport (concessionary). It's the school's fault for not being within walking distance.
You will have friends all over Singapore (let's be frank, most of the popular schools have very few students staying < 1km). Tampines? Check. Punggol? Check. Clementi? Check. How cool is that?
Honestly, can't think of anything worst than keep bumping into friends in the neighbourhood... in the mall (wah, you go shopping with your mom huh?), in the hawker centres (wah, you like chicken rice a lot is it?), in the park (you got exercise one meh?), in the library (it's ok we understand, we all need air con sometimes).
The privilege ones get home quickly for lunch, the rest goes to BASC or ah gong / ah ma house for lunch.
Project work? Ok... agree, for secondary school. For primary school? Hmmm...
Parents keep an eye on the lookout for truancy, smoking in the corridors / void decks, affray, etc. Not that it helps... If you are keeping an eye out for what's happening around the school, I would suggest dropping by other suitable schools to put in your wait list.
Probably more...
:siam:
Repeat after me,
Every school, a good school (10x).
P/S: Don't flame me ok? -
floppy\" post_id=\"2033578\" time=\"1628357712\" user_id=\"97579:
Yup usually next door means can walk to school. Not sure which schools u referring too, but the one my kids go to… can walk. Project work: It’s for Primary school, the title says primary. Pretty sure there is project work in pri sch too. More convenient to do at a place near school, rather than travel out. What is BASC? Yes, parents will actually keep a look out and write in to the school to report the “misbehaviors” near our school.
My counter arguments.Zeal mummy\" post_id=\"2033574\" time=\"1628356924\" user_id=\"58173:[quote=\"Zeal mummy\" post_id=2033574 time=1628356924 user_id=58173]More sleep means better attention span, in turn more learning will take place. Proximity has other advantages, like less $ on transport fees, more friends in the same neighbourhood that goes to the same school, getting home quickly for lunch, possible choice for project work at your home, easier for parents to keep an eye on what’s happening around the school. Probably more…
Sleep is a function of how much time you sleep, not how near you are.
< 1km but wake up to catch the school bus at 6am or > 2km away but wake up to catch the school bus at 6am?
How much extra time you get to sleep from being near? 30 mins? If you have a problem with attention span because you have 30 lesser mins of sleep, I suspect you have other issues to worry about.
You save $ if you walk, not if you intend to drive, take school bus, or public transport (concessionary). It's the school's fault for not being within walking distance.
You will have friends all over Singapore (let's be honest, most of the popular schools have very few students staying < 1km). Tampines? Check. Punggol? Check. Clementi? Check. How cool is that?
Honestly, can't think of anything worst than keep bumping into friends... in the mall (wah, you go shopping with your mom huh?), in the hawker centres (wah, you like chicken rice a lot is it?), in the park (you got exercise one meh?), in the library (it's ok we understand, we all need air con sometimes).
The privilege ones get home quickly for lunch, the rest goes to BASC or ah gong / ah ma house for lunch.
Project work? Ok... agree, for secondary school. For primary school? Hmmm...
Parents keep an eye on the lookout for truancy, smoking in the corridors / void decks, affray, etc. Not that it helps... If you are keeping an eye out for what's happening around the school, I would suggest dropping by other suitable schools to put in your wait list.
Probably more...
:siam:
Repeat after me,
Every school, a good school (10x).
P/S: Don't flame me ok?[/quote]
Wouldn’t flame u lar, just slightly amused at how u like to present a different perspective each time. Thanks for sharing, I enjoyed reading. -
My two cents from observing a bit:
a) If parents want to move heaven and earth to get their kid into a certain school, by all means go ahead. I think what is sometimes missed in these discussions is that the popular schools may be attractive to certain people for reasons beyond academics. I think many parents acknowledge this upfront. Unfortunately, at the end of 6 years PSLE scores seem to dominate the thinking as to whether it was "worth it." I would argue this doesn’t have to be the case.
b) IMO, what is not well understood (by all) is that even if a school has a track record of producing X% of the cohort scoring above Y, this does not mean each kid walking through the gate on the first day of P1 has the same X% chance. At certain schools, some of these kids may already have a ~90% chance of breaking Y, and that would probably be true regardless of where you put them. The corollary is that for every kid with odds above X%, one has odds below X%.
What is unclear to me is whether (or how much) any particular school i) increases your maximum potential score or ii) increases the probability that you reach your potential, whatever it may be. For example, RI/HCI have a much higher % of kids scoring 90 at A Levels than other JCs. Is it the school, teachers, facilities, resources, programmes, etc? Or did these two schools enroll a bunch more kids that had a higher probability of scoring 90 to begin with?* I.e. most students who scored 90 at these two schools would have scored 90 wherever they went to JC. It just happens these students selected RI/HCI. Honestly, I have no idea what the answer is and I don’t know that the question can even be answered.
But the same question exists at the primary level; if any particular school has 25%-50%(?) of the cohort scoring above Y, is the difference vs. the national average of Z% scoring above Y all due to the school/school environment or did parents/kids with certain characteristics seek out these schools (more so than average) and most would have scored above Y regardless of where they went? Like many things in life, there is probably bits of truth to both.
All that being said, I think most acknowledge that being in any particular school is neither a sufficient nor a necessary condition for either high scores or more broadly "doing well" in school/life/social development. But that doesn’t mean the attraction of certain schools is "pointless" either. Regardless of where your kids end up, just support them and help them reach whatever their potential is (my kids didn’t/don’t go to famous schools but I support(ed) the school and I am happy with how they’ve done/are doing). In the long run, all of this only matters so much…
*to be clear, I don’t think scoring 90 at A Levels is the be all and end all, and many kids at other JCs will end up doing better at A Levels and in uni/life than kids in RI/HCI. I also have no idea how my kid(s) will score if they make it to take A Levels. -
Never look far, can see the school from my bedroom, but problem is not sure if we can win the next door's school lottery lah 😱😱🤣🤣
Zeal mummy\" post_id=\"2033571\" time=\"1628356176\" user_id=\"58173:[quote=\"Zeal mummy\" post_id=2033571 time=1628356176 user_id=58173]
Most of the time, the suitable one is right next door. Look closer ;)[/quote]floppy\" post_id=\"2033569\" time=\"1628356012\" user_id=\"97579:
But most of the time, the most suitable ones are also the most popular ones[quote=\"Zeal mummy\" post_id=2033567 time=1628355512 user_id=58173]May the most suitable school win your heart! Not the popular ones..
:siam:[/quote] -
.
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SG_KP1\" post_id=\"2033593\" time=\"1628384427\" user_id=\"188234:
True, that. Eg I knew my kid would be average academically. And he is (nothing has changed). I do not blame the school, nor do I think he would have scored better had he gone to a primary school with better / worse track record). He is, however, happy to go to school daily, which is not the case for his peers who entered schools that were unfortunately not the right fit for them.
My two cents from observing a bit:
a) If parents want to move heaven and earth to get their kid into a certain school, by all means go ahead. I think what is sometimes missed in these discussions is that the popular schools may be attractive to certain people for reasons beyond academics. I think many parents acknowledge this upfront. Unfortunately, at the end of 6 years PSLE scores seem to dominate the thinking as to whether it was \"worth it.\" I would argue this doesn't have to be the case.
b) IMO, what is not well understood (by all) is that even if a school has a track record of producing X% of the cohort scoring above Y, this does not mean each kid walking through the gate on the first day of P1 has the same X% chance. At certain schools, some of these kids may already have a ~90% chance of breaking Y, and that would probably be true regardless of where you put them. The corollary is that for every kid with odds above X%, one has odds below X%.
What is unclear to me is whether (or how much) any particular school i) increases your maximum potential score or ii) increases the probability that you reach your potential, whatever it may be. For example, RI/HCI have a much higher % of kids scoring 90 at A Levels than other JCs. Is it the school, teachers, facilities, resources, programmes, etc? Or did these two schools enroll a bunch more kids that had a higher probability of scoring 90 to begin with?* I.e. most students who scored 90 at these two schools would have scored 90 wherever they went to JC. It just happens these students selected RI/HCI. Honestly, I have no idea what the answer is and I don't know that the question can even be answered.
But the same question exists at the primary level; if any particular school has 25%-50%(?) of the cohort scoring above Y, is the difference vs. the national average of Z% scoring above Y all due to the school/school environment or did parents/kids with certain characteristics seek out these schools (more so than average) and most would have scored above Y regardless of where they went? Like many things in life, there is probably bits of truth to both.
All that being said, I think most acknowledge that being in any particular school is neither a sufficient nor a necessary condition for either high scores or more broadly \"doing well\" in school/life/social development. But that doesn't mean the attraction of certain schools is \"pointless\" either. Regardless of where your kids end up, just support them and help them reach whatever their potential is (my kids didn't/don't go to famous schools but I support(ed) the school and I am happy with how they've done/are doing). In the long run, all of this only matters so much...
*to be clear, I don't think scoring 90 at A Levels is the be all and end all, and many kids at other JCs will end up doing better at A Levels and in uni/life than kids in RI/HCI. I also have no idea how my kid(s) will score if they make it to take A Levels.
It’s a hard call for parents to gauge when the kid is only K2, not all will be accurate. Just don’t let your child suffer for too long if you figure out along the way that the school is the wrong fit. Transfer out if need be. Sometimes the child is miserable in school and the confidence takes a beating. That’s an awful way to remember one’s primary school years. -
Ahh, now that you've explained more, I am beginning to see where you are coming from. I suppose everyone's motivation and idea of a good school is different. Ultimately, as long as parents can bear the consequences of their choices, then it's most important, of course if the kids can't really cope, hope their parents can find ways to help them.
I can't comment abt SJIJ parents today as your descriptions of them sound so different from my family members and friends, but then again what do I know as their boys graduated a while back. And since your child is still there, what you say, may sadly be true.
Again, thanks for providing your insights and all the best with your child's P1 registration!Taran80\" post_id=\"2033500\" time=\"1628309211\" user_id=\"192302:
Thanks for sharing, you certainly pointed out several good points and examples. Esp true in cases of students in elite schools + tuition and still scoring low in PSLE, while there are others from neighbourhood schools scoring 270++ These things happen. I do, however feel there are a few areas in which your general assumptions are oversimplified.
a) I believe not everyone moves house for the sole purpose of sending their kids to highly academic pressure cooker school like Nanyang Primary (since you mentioned that particular school). Parents move house for for many other reasons (ie choosing religious schools or Clan based schools for their kids' character development/traditional values/religion). Next, there are also people I know who need to move because the only schools in their areas (1-2km) are elite school and lower end school which you suggest not to apply. There are also parents who move to be within 1km from their old primary schools to ensure entry. So, if they are moving because of whatever schools they want and can afford it, I don't see why not. Not all parents are keen to send their kids to schools that are 14km away from home.
a) I guess to make things a bit more clearer. The post was not intended to educate those with genuine reasons for shifting locations but more to those who deliberately do it, hoping to get a head start in life. This a a myth. There is no such thing as a head start. This is what I have been explaining all along. Head start in life is the moment you are born smarter and more intelligent than other babies around you. Period. It is not influenced by the school you go to. So I have no complains against those whom do it for genuine reasons but those whom purposely move less than a km away (when they have no previous links with the school), or teachers suddenly teaching a secondary school then next you hear they they have become primary school teachers (of one of the top 20 popular primary school cause their kid has just been born) or even parents volunteering when clearly they are doing it not cause of passion but more cause of a requirement. This is my case of argument. At the end all of this effort goes to waste when from being in the top 20 primary schools, these kids cannot even make it to to top 50 secondary schools cause their grades are not good enough when compared to the whole population. Why not start with humble beginnings and work you way up. Perfect example is Pritam Singh. He started with humble beginnings and is probably more successful and most or every single one of us. Something to ponder about.
b) If you had looked through SJIJ thread, you would realize a lot of parents did/do not plan to send their boys for SJIJ's academic ranking, but rather for its well balanced curriculum and happy environment.
b) I have to disagree with this. This is what they claim and write but when you meet them in person the body language, and they way they portray themselves, you can clearly see they do not care about the happy environment. There are some, those parents are artist or are into sports and one parent whom I met will be migrating when the kid finishes his PSLE that do not really care and prefer the happy environment. It may be a bit harsh for me to say this but most are throwing a smoke screen (I have no way of proving this but is just the body language and how they come across. It likes your CV when applying for a job. Everyone makes it seems they are the most appropriate candidate but when the interview takes places, you realize a lot of stuff in there is a fluff.)
c) Yes, I have no doubt about it. But PSLE result is not the only factor in primary school life. Like it or not, we have to admit that being in Nanyang exposes students to myriad of interesting activities, and experiencing the pride of being part of school with strong history and heritage is not something the kids can get in any random ABC school.
c) I guess there is some truth to it but again what is culture and heritage? These keep changing when the principal and school teachers change. After 30 years of changing principals and school teachers the new group might not even care about heritage. Its just radiating out of the walls, that all. Some part if it is retained but a lot of it gets lost as the baton changes hands. Alot of teachers are not so passionate as say 30 years ago. They do this cause the salary is good. Again I cannot prove the numbers, it just boils down to the vibes you get from them after discussion. If there is no passion then other things like heritage and culture have no purpose as these qualities will not radiate from the teachers.
Thks for sharing your thoughts as well. I just completed phase 2C of my second child. -
All the best and good luck!
Touch_me_not\" post_id=\"2033594\" time=\"1628385105\" user_id=\"187786:
Never look far, can see the school from my bedroom, but problem is not sure if we can win the next door's school lottery lah 😱😱🤣🤣
Zeal mummy\" post_id=\"2033571\" time=\"1628356176\" user_id=\"58173:[quote=\"Zeal mummy\" post_id=2033571 time=1628356176 user_id=58173]
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Hi all, may I know how to choose from Yishun Primary and Xishan Primary? Which one is better? Thank you!
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zac's mum\" post_id=\"2033598\" time=\"1628385563\" user_id=\"53606:[quote=\"zac's mum\" post_id=2033598 time=1628385563 user_id=53606]
Hear, hear! :please:SG_KP1\" post_id=\"2033593\" time=\"1628384427\" user_id=\"188234:
True, that. Eg I knew my kid would be average academically. And he is (nothing has changed). I do not blame the school, nor do I think he would have scored better had he gone to a primary school with better / worse track record). He is, however, happy to go to school daily, which is not the case for his peers who entered schools that were unfortunately not the right fit for them.My two cents from observing a bit:
a) If parents want to move heaven and earth to get their kid into a certain school, by all means go ahead. I think what is sometimes missed in these discussions is that the popular schools may be attractive to certain people for reasons beyond academics. I think many parents acknowledge this upfront. Unfortunately, at the end of 6 years PSLE scores seem to dominate the thinking as to whether it was \"worth it.\" I would argue this doesn't have to be the case.
b) IMO, what is not well understood (by all) is that even if a school has a track record of producing X% of the cohort scoring above Y, this does not mean each kid walking through the gate on the first day of P1 has the same X% chance. At certain schools, some of these kids may already have a ~90% chance of breaking Y, and that would probably be true regardless of where you put them. The corollary is that for every kid with odds above X%, one has odds below X%.
What is unclear to me is whether (or how much) any particular school i) increases your maximum potential score or ii) increases the probability that you reach your potential, whatever it may be. For example, RI/HCI have a much higher % of kids scoring 90 at A Levels than other JCs. Is it the school, teachers, facilities, resources, programmes, etc? Or did these two schools enroll a bunch more kids that had a higher probability of scoring 90 to begin with?* I.e. most students who scored 90 at these two schools would have scored 90 wherever they went to JC. It just happens these students selected RI/HCI. Honestly, I have no idea what the answer is and I don't know that the question can even be answered.
But the same question exists at the primary level; if any particular school has 25%-50%(?) of the cohort scoring above Y, is the difference vs. the national average of Z% scoring above Y all due to the school/school environment or did parents/kids with certain characteristics seek out these schools (more so than average) and most would have scored above Y regardless of where they went? Like many things in life, there is probably bits of truth to both.
All that being said, I think most acknowledge that being in any particular school is neither a sufficient nor a necessary condition for either high scores or more broadly \"doing well\" in school/life/social development. But that doesn't mean the attraction of certain schools is \"pointless\" either. Regardless of where your kids end up, just support them and help them reach whatever their potential is (my kids didn't/don't go to famous schools but I support(ed) the school and I am happy with how they've done/are doing). In the long run, all of this only matters so much...
*to be clear, I don't think scoring 90 at A Levels is the be all and end all, and many kids at other JCs will end up doing better at A Levels and in uni/life than kids in RI/HCI. I also have no idea how my kid(s) will score if they make it to take A Levels.
It’s a hard call for parents to gauge when the kid is only K2, not all will be accurate. Just don’t let your child suffer for too long if you figure out along the way that the school is the wrong fit. Transfer out if need be. Sometimes the child is miserable in school and the confidence takes a beating. That’s an awful way to remember one’s primary school years.[/quote]
My two cents worth. Elder niece went to top brand-name primary school. She had tuition in every subject, was very competitive with her classmates, her self worth completely tied up in rankings vs her classmates. Ended up with a habit of cutting her arms and \"hating\" her parents. According to her dad, this was common among her group of friends, who live in landed/condo, had lots of tuition, all had psychological issues.
Just seems to me the parents' anxiety fed into the child's mind and personality, and ended up dangerously close to becoming unhealthy adults. As a millenial, not a boomer, makes me kinda sad.
:siam:
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