2021 PSLE Discussions and Strategies (Children born in 2009)
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SG_KP1\" post_id=\"2041496\" time=\"1633836076\" user_id=\"188234:
In this space, anyone can make any claims about t-score marks of someone or somebody etc but that doesn't mean everything that is said is correct and true.
With all due respect, the above parts in bold are what's causing the confusion. The actual t-score COPs and simulated AL COPs were two different exercises and the students that were posted actual and simulated were not the same (MOE has confirmed). When we go from actual t-score COP to simulated AL COP we know a high t-score kid was replaced by a lower t-score kid; it is unclear how much lower of a t-score he/she had (could be equal to t-score COP for school or lower). We only know in RGS/RI/MGS case the new kid was an AL6 and in TJC's case the new kid was an AL9.
If you plug in 4A* = 264 you will see the whole table shift down. That is why I've always said it is ambiguous as to whether all AL6 >= 258 (based simply on what MOE provided).
Again, we can disagree (for everyone's sake let's keep the replies civil).
Take 4A* = 264 for example.
Since we know A* is for 91 and above, the minimum total combine raw score has to be 364 (nothing below)
And since 90-100 = AL1, min total combine raw score for AL4 will have to be 360 (nothing below)
Both 360 and 364 are facts.
So if 4A* is achievable with 264 t-score (supposed this is the lowest possible), then AL4 estimated T-score will be approx 261 and above in the same year because we know AL4 min combine raw scores is 4 marks lower than 4A*.
What we also know is that t-score COP for top IP schools is around 258 to 261, hence if AL4 COP = 261, AL COP for top IP schools will have to be AL5 because the min total combine raw score for AL5 COP is 5 marks lower than AL4, so in the same year, the t-score AL5 will be 257/8, and AL6 will be 253/254.
For this reason, I believe it's unlikely that 4A* can be 264.
MOE indicative AL range for each school is calculated based on the first and last students enrolled in 2020 (actual student). For the case of RI and RGS, the AL range is AL4 to AL6. Which mean the last student accepted into the schools based on t-score ranking has an AL6 PSLE score.
Since we know that the COP of top IP schools is around 258 to 261 (facts), we can then say that the lowest t-score for AL6 students will be somewhere between 258 - 261 and not lower because anything lower will cross into AL7.
For the case of TJC, the last kid who enrolled into TJC is a AL9 student with the lowest t-score and we believe its a 250. -
Veyron\" post_id=\"2041510\" time=\"1633840220\" user_id=\"30663:
The indicative range is NOT based on the actual student enrolled in 2020. The indicative range was derived from a simulation where they re-sorted all (roughly?) 36,000-37,000 non-DSA kids (using 2020 raw marks). They posted the AL4s first, AL5s second, AL6s third, etc, etc using the choices on the 2020 S1 Option Forms. Under this completely different mechanism, RGS, RI, MGS IP(IB) were full at AL6. Please see MOE's reply to my question in the following link; they specifically talk about the new tie breakers (wouldn't apply if it was the actual students) and that posting outcomes may differ.
In this space, anyone can make any claims about t-score marks of someone or somebody etc but that doesn't mean everything that is said is correct and true.
Take 4A* = 264 for example.
Since we know A* is for 91 and above, the minimum total combine raw score has to be 364 (nothing below)
And since 90-100 = AL1, min total combine raw score for AL4 will have to be 360 (nothing below)
Both 360 and 364 are facts.
So if 4A* is achievable with 264 t-score (supposed this is the lowest possible), then AL4 estimated T-score will be approx 261 and above in the same year because we know AL4 min combine raw scores is 4 marks lower than 4A*.
What we also know is that t-score COP for top IP schools is around 258 to 261, hence if AL4 COP = 261, AL COP for top IP schools will have to be AL5 because the min total combine raw score for AL5 COP is 5 marks lower than AL4, so in the same year, the t-score AL5 will be 257/8, and AL6 will be 253/254.
For this reason, I believe it's unlikely that 4A* can be 264.
MOE indicative AL range for each school is calculated based on the first and last students enrolled in 2020 (actual student). For the case of RI and RGS, the AL range is AL4 to AL6. Which mean the last student accepted into the schools based on t-score ranking has an AL6 PSLE score.
Since we know that the COP of top IP schools is around 258 to 261 (facts), we can then say that the lowest t-score for AL6 students will be somewhere between 258 - 261 and not lower because anything lower will cross into AL7.
For the case of TJC, the last kid who enrolled into TJC is a AL9 student with the lowest t-score and we believe its a 250.
https://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=93831&p=2022991#p2022991
I will say I have not seen any 4A* = 264. At the same time, I have no ability to claim what CCK2008 posted is incorrect. -
SG_KP1\" post_id=\"2041515\" time=\"1633841661\" user_id=\"188234:
The indicative range is NOT based on the actual student enrolled in 2020. The indicative range was derived from a simulation where they re-sorted all (roughly?) 36,000-37,000 non-DSA kids (using 2020 raw marks). They posted the AL4s first, AL5s second, AL6s third, etc, etc using the choices on the 2020 S1 Option Forms. Under this completely different mechanism, RGS, RI, MGS IP(IB) were full at AL6. Please see MOE's reply to my question in the following link; they specifically talk about the new tie breakers (wouldn't apply if it was the actual students) and that posting outcomes may differ.
https://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=93831&p=2022991#p2022991
I will say I have not seen any 4A* = 264. At the same time, I have no ability to claim what CCK2008 posted is incorrect.
I am not sure where you get the information from. According to MOE website it clearly says that COP is based on the actual PSLE result of the actual last student enrol in the school. It is not a computer-generated number.
The PSLE Score range shows the PSLE Score of the first and last student admitted into a particular school and course in the previous year via the S1 Posting Exercise. The PSLE Score of the last student admitted to the school forms the COP.
https://www.moe.gov.sg/microsites/psle-fsbb/posting-to-secondary-school/faqs.html#al-cops -
Veyron\" post_id=\"2041526\" time=\"1633843196\" user_id=\"30663:
All the information is here:SG_KP1\" post_id=\"2041515\" time=\"1633841661\" user_id=\"188234:
The indicative range is NOT based on the actual student enrolled in 2020. The indicative range was derived from a simulation where they re-sorted all (roughly?) 36,000-37,000 non-DSA kids (using 2020 raw marks). They posted the AL4s first, AL5s second, AL6s third, etc, etc using the choices on the 2020 S1 Option Forms. Under this completely different mechanism, RGS, RI, MGS IP(IB) were full at AL6. Please see MOE's reply to my question in the following link; they specifically talk about the new tie breakers (wouldn't apply if it was the actual students) and that posting outcomes may differ.
https://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=93831&p=2022991#p2022991
I will say I have not seen any 4A* = 264. At the same time, I have no ability to claim what CCK2008 posted is incorrect.
I am not sure where you get the information from. According to MOE website it clearly says that COP is based on the actual PSLE result of the actual last student enrol in the school. It is not a computer-generated number.
The PSLE Score range shows the PSLE Score of the first and last student admitted into a particular school and course in the previous year via the S1 Posting Exercise. The PSLE Score of the last student admitted to the school forms the COP.
https://www.moe.gov.sg/microsites/psle-fsbb/posting-to-secondary-school/faqs.html#al-cops
https://www.moe.gov.sg/-/media/files/news/press/2021/annex-d-psle-2021.pdf -
Veyron\" post_id=\"2041526\" time=\"1633843196\" user_id=\"30663:
I wrote to MOE because I found some of the language on the website vs. the language in the press release/FAQ PDF was confusing. I thought it was confusing in the sense that different parts could be read different ways. I also highlighted the text that you are referencing and they said they would edit it (but perhaps never got to it although I do see they did add \"simulation\" under the SAP School FAQ).SG_KP1\" post_id=\"2041515\" time=\"1633841661\" user_id=\"188234:
The indicative range is NOT based on the actual student enrolled in 2020. The indicative range was derived from a simulation where they re-sorted all (roughly?) 36,000-37,000 non-DSA kids (using 2020 raw marks). They posted the AL4s first, AL5s second, AL6s third, etc, etc using the choices on the 2020 S1 Option Forms. Under this completely different mechanism, RGS, RI, MGS IP(IB) were full at AL6. Please see MOE's reply to my question in the following link; they specifically talk about the new tie breakers (wouldn't apply if it was the actual students) and that posting outcomes may differ.
https://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=93831&p=2022991#p2022991
I will say I have not seen any 4A* = 264. At the same time, I have no ability to claim what CCK2008 posted is incorrect.
I am not sure where you get the information from. According to MOE website it clearly says that COP is based on the actual PSLE result of the actual last student enrol in the school. It is not a computer-generated number.
The PSLE Score range shows the PSLE Score of the first and last student admitted into a particular school and course in the previous year via the S1 Posting Exercise. The PSLE Score of the last student admitted to the school forms the COP.
https://www.moe.gov.sg/microsites/psle-fsbb/posting-to-secondary-school/faqs.html#al-cops
Further, IMO it would not make any sense to simply take all the students that were posted to a school and figure out what their AL Scores were to determine the Indicative AL COPs. T-Score and AL COP, while they both come from raw marks, are two completely different sorting/queuing systems. To run a meaningful \"simulation,\" you need to requeue the kids as they will be queued in AL (which is what they've done if you believe the question and reply I've posted).
Also, if we are to believe MOE used the actual students posted, this would mean there were no (as in not one) high but unbalanced t-score kids in these three schools. While we cannot prove or disprove this since we don't have the kids' raw marks, it seems unlikely to me (i.e. from 2020 PSLE no t-scores > 258-260 in three schools were an AL7). -
Just curious, is there like a AL cut off for IP stream (like how there is one for express or normal stream) or is it just based on whether you meet the COP for the particular IP school you are looking at?
Approximately how many % of students per year make it to IP/IB or specialised schools and so avoid the O level track? -
Agree, very difficult to do anything.
We are planning on having our DD do things like:
1. Independent shopping at wet market, malls. She already shops at the HDB shops
2. We are Indians, so we want her to independently shop at the Deepawali market at Little India
3. Independent cycling
4. Independent money withdrawal of money from ATM
5. Independent bus/MRT travel to her prospective schools
6. Laundry, all aspects like washing clothes, folding, ironing
7. Household jobs like washing dishes, sweeping and mopping the floor
8. Cooking meals independently for everyone in the house
9. She reads and reads and reads, so that's one thing. Loves going to the library
Our DD does a lot of these things in parts, and other kids may already be doing these stuff, but we want her to mindfully do the above items. Once secondary school starts, it will be more difficult to plan and do these activities.
Of course, we plan some things as family also, so that's also there. Open to other suggestions.ChiefKiasu\" post_id=\"2041499\" time=\"1633836746\" user_id=\"3:
Seriously, I think you guys should all be awarded some Singapore Math Award for linking t-scores to al scores. The math is so chim that I have a hard time trying to follow. Until we realise there is no exact relationship and whatever we are doing is just making conjectures. Well anyway, good job, folks. I'll just wait for the actual results.
Now, whose kids are actually doing something besides being on that playstation or xbox? It's hard to think of anything else for them to do in this pandemic. -
ChiefKiasu\" post_id=\"2041499\" time=\"1633836746\" user_id=\"3:
Ikr! My elder child is post-PSLE, my p4 child has no exams, so both happily looking at YouTube or Roblox.... Looking at staycation to reward my girl for trying her best for the PSLE but that won't span the whole remaining months of the year! Just looking at some craft/STEM kits to keep them busy and get their eyes off the devices!
Seriously, I think you guys should all be awarded some Singapore Math Award for linking t-scores to al scores. The math is so chim that I have a hard time trying to follow. Until we realise there is no exact relationship and whatever we are doing is just making conjectures. Well anyway, good job, folks. I'll just wait for the actual results.
Now, whose kids are actually doing something besides being on that playstation or xbox? It's hard to think of anything else for them to do in this pandemic. -
To determine the AL RANGE, MOE will have to include everyone from the 1st to the last students. (1st = highest t-score)
To determine the AL COP, MOE will be based on the actual PSLE score of the last student (last = lowest t-score) and convert to AL using raw score. -
Mommymini\" post_id=\"2041543\" time=\"1633845191\" user_id=\"129282:
Has your girl chosen her school yet? My girl has 2 in mind but there are 6 choices so we will need to also spend time to see the e-open houses and explore transport options to fill up the remaining 4 choices. Once the results are out, I think we only have 6 days to fill up the posting form? So best to plan early too.
Agree, very difficult to do anything.
We are planning on having our DD do things like:
1. Independent shopping at wet market, malls. She already shops at the HDB shops
2. We are Indians, so we want her to independently shop at the Deepawali market at Little India
3. Independent cycling
4. Independent money withdrawal of money from ATM
5. Independent bus/MRT travel to her prospective schools
6. Laundry, all aspects like washing clothes, folding, ironing
7. Household jobs like washing dishes, sweeping and mopping the floor
8. Cooking meals independently for everyone in the house
9. She reads and reads and reads, so that's one thing. Loves going to the library
Our DD does a lot of these things in parts, and other kids may already be doing these stuff, but we want her to mindfully do the above items. Once secondary school starts, it will be more difficult to plan and do these activities.
Of course, we plan some things as family also, so that's also there. Open to other suggestions.
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