MOE says 15 marks of the Mathematics PSLE paper are challenging. So average students can only hope to score 85% max?

[manorway]

floppy\" post_id=\"2074648\" time=\"1657882204\" user_id=\"97579:

Which is why this particular topic heading is misleading. You only need to score 91% to be graded as being on par with Albert Einstein in this exam.

The new grading reduces a lot of stress for the high abilities who are hovering around AL1, 2 and 3. Esp for Math. We can afford some careless mistakes if we know we can do nearly all types of questions. If there is one type of question that stresses us out a lot, we know we can give it up and just focus on the rest since 91% or 99% are both AL1.

Then the time freed up can be used to work on the subjects that are currently at AL3.

[SG_KP1]

manorway\" post_id=\"2074683\" time=\"1657896899\" user_id=\"9303:

The new grading reduces a lot of stress for the high abilities who are hovering around AL1, 2 and 3. Esp for Math. We can afford some careless mistakes if we know we can do nearly all types of questions. If there is one type of question that stresses us out a lot, we know we can give it up and just focus on the rest since 91% or 99% are both AL1.

Then the time freed up can be used to work on the subjects that are currently at AL3.

Somewhat of a different issue but the question then is whether the Total AL Score Distribution has stabilized yet? If not, scores could compress either lower or more within the current range.

For this year, it really doesn't matter much. Just use last year's actuals and assume it holds. But watching for the future years...

[ChiefKiasu]

OK. It’s weird that MOE would put up an announcement on something like that. I think most parents are already expecting the math paper to be difficult to be able to rank students properly. For them to say it upfront right now, before the event, only heightens parents’ concerns, especially those who have kids doing PSLE for the first time.


Perhaps MOE can highlight those difficult questions, or place them in a separate section (Section "E" for Extra Hard!). That way, students can do all the rest of the paper first instead of trying those questions and getting stuck on them, stopping them from answering the easier questions. That way, it would be a fairer and more accurate assessment of competency.

[zac's mum]

That’s a good suggestion. Like those questions marked with an asterisk (*) that everybody knows are harder. Or call it a bonus section for bonus points for AL1.

[sharonkhoo]

ChiefKiasu\" post_id=\"2074710\" time=\"1657937228\" user_id=\"3:

OK. It's weird that MOE would put up an announcement on something like that. I think most parents are already expecting the math paper to be difficult to be able to rank students properly. For them to say it upfront right now, before the event, only heightens parents' concerns, especially those who have kids doing PSLE for the first time.

Perhaps MOE can highlight those difficult questions, or place them in a separate section (Section \"E\" for Extra Hard!). That way, students can do all the rest of the paper first instead of trying those questions and getting stuck on them, stopping them from answering the easier questions. That way, it would be a fairer and more accurate assessment of competency.

I think the intention was to assure parents that 85% of the paper would be doable for the average student! And in any other context than PSLE, no-one would fuss! PSLE is probably the only exam where so many parents seem to feel that every child (or at least their child) should be able to answer all the questions every time. It's been a while since my daughter took the PSLE, but I remember telling her (and myself) before the paper that she should just do her best, and if there were questions that stumped her, not to get too worked up as there would have been many more questions that she had been able to answer. That took some of the stress off her, as so many around her were of the \"only 90%-100% is good enough\" camp.

I think the challenging questions are already at the end of the paper, so if students start from the beginning, they will have done the more manageable ones already before they get to the challenging ones. To mark them as specially difficult might actually cause some students to give up even before giving them a good stab. Without that warning, some \"average\" students might well be able to do some/all of those questions - some kids get a burst of brilliance under pressure (and some don't).

The main thing, I feel, is that we need to assess our kids and recognise where they stand in the cohort, both in Maths aptitude, and in how they cope with exam pressure - if they are average, or don't do well under pressure, then maybe aiming for 85% or lower would be better than stressing over the 15%. And then anything over 85% is a cause for celebration. If every child is expected to score over 90% even if they are not particularly strong at Maths, then there will be many more stressed and unhappy kids (and parents).

Added: Please note that I am not saying that average students should give up trying to do more challenging questions, or be coached to attempt them. There is a mental difference between trying them and being happy when they succeed, and being expected to do them and being disappointed when they can't.

[manorway]

ChiefKiasu\" post_id=\"2074710\" time=\"1657937228\" user_id=\"3:

OK. It's weird that MOE would put up an announcement on something like that. I think most parents are already expecting the math paper to be difficult to be able to rank students properly. For them to say it upfront right now, before the event, only heightens parents' concerns, especially those who have kids doing PSLE for the first time.

Perhaps MOE can highlight those difficult questions, or place them in a separate section (Section \"E\" for Extra Hard!). That way, students can do all the rest of the paper first instead of trying those questions and getting stuck on them, stopping them from answering the easier questions. That way, it would be a fairer and more accurate assessment of competency.

I beg to differ. By the time kids sit for PSLE, they should already have lots of practices, in school and as part of revision, to know that they SHOULD skip and move on to the next question. The issue is the child must know himself well enough to know that this particular question is too hard/confusing for him, then he can decide on the spot to skip or persevere. And he needs to know at what point should he move on after trying for a while.

What is considered difficult to one group may not be hard for some too. By placing them in a separate section may also make some kids think prematurely that they will not be able to conquer those.

[MrsKiasu]

I m kinda of the same view as slmkhoo…view of 85% is doable for many avg kids. Mine is not good in more challenging qns…

[ChiefKiasu]

manorway\" post_id=\"2074725\" time=\"1657939462\" user_id=\"9303:

I beg to differ. By the time kids sit for PSLE, they should already have lots of practices, in school and as part of revision, to know that they SHOULD skip and move on to the next question. The issue is the child must know himself well enough to know that this particular question is too hard/confusing for him, then he can decide on the spot to skip or persevere. And he needs to know at what point should he move on after trying for a while.

What is considered difficult to one group may not be hard for some too. By placing them in a separate section may also make some kids think prematurely that they will not be able to conquer those.

Hmm... sounds like it is a question of is the glass half full, or half empty Will marking the questions allow kids to know they should avoid doing them until they have done the rest of the questions, or will it give them fear so that they cannot do the questions at all?

Does it really matter if they cannot do the questions at all, if they have already successfully finished the rest of the other questions? I think not. It's a bonus if they can do the questions, but what they have already done is enough.

It's ok if the questions are not marked but placed at the end of the paper, so that students can naturally move from doing the easier questions to the hardest.

[00skyblue00]

ChiefKiasu\" post_id=\"2074710\" time=\"1657937228\" user_id=\"3:

OK. It's weird that MOE would put up an announcement on something like that. I think most parents are already expecting the math paper to be difficult to be able to rank students properly. For them to say it upfront right now, before the event, only heightens parents' concerns, especially those who have kids doing PSLE for the first time.

Perhaps MOE can highlight those difficult questions, or place them in a separate section (Section \"E\" for Extra Hard!). That way, students can do all the rest of the paper first instead of trying those questions and getting stuck on them, stopping them from answering the easier questions. That way, it would be a fairer and more accurate assessment of competency.

First hand experience here from last yr PSLE, my child and another boy our family is close with had never math tuition, never impressed that they must or not complete the papers. They are of different learning abilities, one is a stretch to expect more than average, from past school performance. Both solved the Ivan and Helen question and other last qn. I never ask more details either.
If the questions are marked as challenging on paper, this child may doubt himself and limit his possibilities.

We only made a point to tell them both, expect that there will be questions they have to read and read again, give a try and move on. No need to worry. We love them no lesser. Give them that assurance.
One scored AL1, the other surprised us with AL2, pleasantly surprised. This meant they got the easier questions wrong, could be careless, or that different type of qns are seem challenging to different kids. My dd usually solve the \"harder\" qns but get the directions qns wrong. Harder to child A may be easier to another child. Eg. Visual type qn may be harder for other kids.

Let our kids lead the way. Because their performance had not been inflated with tuition, I can safely say, their sec schools are good fit to their traits, abilities and possibilities too. PSLE has been accurate for our kids. Both are very happy with their current schools even though they were not the same choices that we started out earlier in the same PSLE year.

The boy scored 74 in P6 sa1 math, AL5. So have faith in our kids. This boy jumped grades by 4AL in total from P6 SA1 to PSLE. Sharing to inspire all P6s.

[manorway]

ChiefKiasu\" post_id=\"2074732\" time=\"1657940517\" user_id=\"3:

Hmm... sounds like it is a question of is the glass half full, or half empty Will marking the questions allow kids to know they should avoid doing them until they have done the rest of the questions, or will it give them fear so that they cannot do the questions at all?

Does it really matter if they cannot do the questions at all, if they have already successfully finished the rest of the other questions? I think not. It's a bonus if they can do the questions, but what they have already done is enough.

It's ok if the questions are not marked but placed at the end of the paper, so that students can naturally move from doing the easier questions to the hardest.

If you examine Math Paper 2, the first 5 questions of 2 marks each should be the easiest questions. Then followed by some 3 marks and then a mix of 4 marks and 5 marks questions. I have kids who are high abilities who may occasionally struggle with a 3 marks question but can solve a 4 marks or 5 marks question with ease. Though most of the time, we should expect the 3 marks question to be easier. Why is this so? It can be because the 3 marks question belongs to a certain type of question that he struggles with. So if we start to separate the questions into Paper 1, Paper 2 and then a Paper 3... and anything in Paper 3 is just extra challenging (or whatever you want to name them)... are we telling the kid that you should keep trying your 3 marks question until you can solve it BEFORE you even attempt the questions in paper 3?

For some average abilities, they may not even have the time to get to the last few questions that are very challenging. So the approach to take should be the get the low lying fruits first. Start from the first page of the paper and work your way to the last page. Skip a question that you find too challenging/confusing after reading the question or if you are always intimidated with one question type (eg. Triangles, Circles or patterns), skip and do the others first. Return to it when you have finished the paper.

It is an EXAM. Why do we place questions in the paper that are optional, do not carry marks? Then why include in the first place? Questions that are just BONUS should earn them bonus in exam. Otherwise give them as \"Just for fun\" worksheets before or after exam. The challenging questions that made up 15% can be seen as bonus questions too. If you cannot do them at all, tell yourself that you can already achieved 85% and that should be good enough.