Tutor Niedino: Pri Science Questions and Concepts

[atutor2001]

Niedino:

Tang:

Hello,


\"Example 3: The water comes from the water vapour in the air. (Does not talk about condensation of the water vapour so too broad)\"

You meant 'incomplete' rather than 'too broad'?

Expected answer?

The water vapour from the surrounding air comes into contact with the cool outer surface of the cup and condenses into water droplets.

Hi Tang,

Your answer is definitely the ideal answer. What I was trying to show in the example was that pupils often answer either without explaining clearly or in a general manner. It can be termed as an incomplete answer, and the child would not get full marks.

The problem that the students are really facing, is the \"incompleteness\", of science question.

\"Where does the water on the outside from a cup of cold orange juice come from?\"

If the above question is from an English comprehension paper, marks will be deducted (or even zero mark given) if a student provides explanation in the answer on how the water droplets were formed because the question specifically asked for \"where\". By including the \"how\" in the answer, it would deem that the student does not understand the question and is trying his or her luck by covering all angles.

However, in science, marks will be deducted for not explaining \"how\" and \"why\", although the question only asked for \"where\".

What an irony, poor kids having to tackle the same question in 2 different ways for different subject.

It would be good if schools add the word \"explain\" after each question.

[starlight1968sg]

atutor2001:

The problem that the students are really facing, is the \"incompleteness\", of science question.


\"Where does the water on the outside from a cup of cold orange juice come from?\"

If the above question is from an English comprehension paper, marks will be deducted (or even zero mark given) if a student provides explanation in the answer on how the water droplets were formed because the question specifically asked for \"where\". By including the \"how\" in the answer, it would deem that the student does not understand the question and is trying his or her luck by covering all angles.

However, in science, marks will be deducted for not explaining \"how\" and \"why\", although the question only asked for \"where\".

What an irony, poor kids having to tackle the same question in 2 different ways for different subject.

It would be good if schools add the word \"explain\" after each question.

I too think that the major culprit for not doing well in sect b for Science is the incompleteness of the answer given by the students. Writing too much may also attracts penalty.

[Niedino]

atutor2001:

The problem that the students are really facing, is the \"incompleteness\", of science question.


\"Where does the water on the outside from a cup of cold orange juice come from?\"

If the above question is from an English comprehension paper, marks will be deducted (or even zero mark given) if a student provides explanation in the answer on how the water droplets were formed because the question specifically asked for \"where\". By including the \"how\" in the answer, it would deem that the student does not understand the question and is trying his or her luck by covering all angles.

However, in science, marks will be deducted for not explaining \"how\" and \"why\", although the question only asked for \"where\".

What an irony, poor kids having to tackle the same question in 2 different ways for different subject.

It would be good if schools add the word \"explain\" after each question.

Hi atutor,

I like to differ from your opinion. Although I agree that not all Science questions are set equal and set very well, having set Science papers before, the difficulty lies in setting questions which trigger pupils' thinking. Having marked quite a few Science papers, the sad thing is that pupils often have the knowledge but lack the finesse in presenting their answers. If we were to stick to the English way of marking Science work, then I believe more pupils will not do well as they will be penalised for grammar, spelling and irrelevant answers.

[Tang]

Tang:

Niedino:

[quote=\"starlight1968sg\"]Why kids usually do not do well in sect b of the pri Sc papers? Is it the way they answered the questions?

Hi Starlight,

I usually see kids not doing well for a variety of reasons.

1. Lack of Knowledge.
They don't know what the question is asking them.

2. Lack of Understanding
They know what the question is asking them, but their basic concepts are wrong.

3. Lack of Accuracy
They do not craft their answers to answer to the question. They answer in a broad manner (too general) or do not explain the theory behind their answers clearly.

E.g. Where does the water on the outside from a cup of cold orange juice come from?

Example 1: From the ice in the orange juice (Lack of knowledge so the child guesses)

Example 2: The orange juice evaporate and condense on the outside of the cup (Misconception of orange juice evaporating before condensing)

Example 3: The water comes from the water vapour in the air. (Does not talk about condensation of the water vapour so too broad)

Hello,

\"Example 3: The water comes from the water vapour in the air. (Does not talk about condensation of the water vapour so too broad)\"

You meant 'incomplete' rather than 'too broad'?

Expected answer?

The water vapour from the surrounding air comes into contact with the cool outer surface of the cup and condenses into water droplets.[/quote]Hello,

Question - Where does the water on the outside from a cup of cold orange juice come from?

Answer - The water vapour from the surrounding air comes into contact with the cool outer surface of the cup and condenses into water droplets.

My Personal Comment - The given answer will be marked wrong because of regurgitation from memory. It is 'too broad'.

Correct answer should have been \"Water vapour from the surrounding air.\"

If there is a need for 'How', normally the question will include \"Explain.\" behind the origin question or it will be given as part (b) of the question.

[Niedino]

Tang:

Hello,

Question - Where does the water on the outside from a cup of cold orange juice come from?

Answer - The water vapour from the surrounding air comes into contact with the cool outer surface of the cup and condenses into water droplets.

My Personal Comment - The given answer will be marked wrong because of regurgitation from memory. It is 'too broad'.

Correct answer should have been \"Water vapour from the surrounding air.\"

If there is a need for 'How', normally the question will include \"Explain.\" behind the origin question or it will be given as part (b) of the question.

Hi Tang,

No offense, although the answer looks regurgitated, it required the student to apply their understanding to the question. If you were to ask me, \"water vapour from the surrounding air\" will be marked wrong, as water vapour is a gas and not a liquid. The concept being tested is that of condensation.

Although the question did not ask for explanations, it is important to that the students understand what the question is asking for and provide a full answer.

Thanks[/b]

[atutor2001]

I think there is another problem with science paper, which is "inconsistency" in the expected answer.


If a question is "Where does paper come from?", I am sure the answer "Paper comes from trees" will suffice. There would be no need to explain how wood is made into paper. Probably the school could argue that the answer to "how" is not expected because it is not covered in the syllabus. Nevertheless, I still feel it is good for science question to be phrased in such a manner, consistent with normal English usage, so as to avoid ambiguity.

Problems with the questions usually happen only in school papers and I think PSLE questions are OK. However, because of students exposure to incomplete question and inconsistent expectancy in school, they end up not knowing the limit to the answers required in PSLE.

A typical example is as follows :

An experiment was conducted by pouring equal amount of water into 3 identical funnels containing equal amount of 3 different types of soil. The time taken for 20 cu cm to flow through was recorded. What is the aim of the experiment?

The possible answers that students may have come across are :

1. To find out the the time taken for 20 cu cm of water to flow through each type of soil.
2. To find out the effect of each type of soil on the time taken for 20 cu cm to flow through.
3. To find out how different types of soil will affect the time taken for 20 cu cm of water to flow through.
4. To find out the porosity of each type of soil.
5. To find out which soil is the most porous.
6. To find out which soil retains the most amount of water.
7. To find out which soil would take the longest/shortest time for 20 cu cm of water to flow through.
…

Our poor kids would be getting wrong / correct for their answers, depending on the school’s marking scheme. Anyone can help to explain which is the best answer and which answers are not acceptable and why. Thanks.

[starlight1968sg]

atutor2001:

Problems with the questions usually happen only in school papers and I think PSLE questions are OK.

I am unsure about this part. If kids can't do well in the school papers, can they do well in PSLE?

[atutor2001]

starlight1968sg:

atutor2001:

Problems with the questions usually happen only in school papers and I think PSLE questions are OK.

I am unsure about this part. If kids can't do well in the school papers, can they do well in PSLE?

\"PSLE questions are OK\" meaning their questions are not ambiguous but can be very tricky. Only kids who are good in English will do well as they can understand the \"limits\" and requirements set in the question - so they don't have to waste time putting in the unnecessary extras.

For others who are trying to match questions to answers from what they have learnt in the past, they would not appreciate the \"limits\" set in the questions and continue to try their luck by including whatever they can remember in their answer, not knowing that certain part of \"standard answers\" is no longer relevant because the \"conditions\" set in the question can completely change the required answer. PSLE usually has a few questions that are very tricky and getting to understand the \"limits\" or \"conditions\" is not easy, which is why getting A* for science is tough.

[Niedino]

atutor2001:

starlight1968sg:

[quote=\"atutor2001\"]Problems with the questions usually happen only in school papers and I think PSLE questions are OK.

I am unsure about this part. If kids can't do well in the school papers, can they do well in PSLE?

\"PSLE questions are OK\" meaning their questions are not ambiguous but can be very tricky. Only kids who are good in English will do well as they can understand the \"limits\" and requirements set in the question - so they don't have to waste time putting in the unnecessary extras.

For others who are trying to match questions to answers from what they have learnt in the past, they would not appreciate the \"limits\" set in the questions and continue to try their luck by including whatever they can remember in their answer, not knowing that certain part of \"standard answers\" is no longer relevant because the \"conditions\" set in the question can completely change the required answer. PSLE usually has a few questions that are very tricky and getting to understand the \"limits\" or \"conditions\" is not easy, which is why getting A* for science is tough.[/quote]Hi atutor,

With regards to your earlier post, I would like to provide the flipside of the coin. PSLE questions can be \"ambiguous\" at times, depending on the process skill tested. Every year, after the PSLE, there'll be questions in the papers

Secondly, to the \"inconsistency\" of school papers, I would like to highlight that school papers are set by teachers who are professionals. This are the same professionals who mark the PSLE. Of course, there are papers that are set very well and there are papers that are set inconsistently, and I'm not debating that. We have to understand that school examinations are set to \"prepare\" pupils for the PSLE and hence very often, the setters are trying to set questions that might appear in the PSLE.

I hope not to set a debate on this topic, and close this subject, as the thread is started to focus on helping parents with Science concepts and particularly misconceptions.

So here's another misconception.

Students are often confused between the Primary Science definition of \"Hardness\" and \"Strength\" when they learn about the diversity of materials. Do try and ask your children about whether an object is \"hard\" or \"strong\" when it can withstand scratches or when it can withstand a lot of mass without breaking. Students are also confused with the state of being \"inflexible\" and being \"hard\", due to the prior understandings with the English definitions.

Hope it helps

[Niedino]

atutor2001:

I think there is another problem with science paper, which is \"inconsistency\" in the expected answer.


If a question is \"Where does paper come from?\", I am sure the answer \"Paper comes from trees\" will suffice. There would be no need to explain how wood is made into paper. Probably the school could argue that the answer to \"how\" is not expected because it is not covered in the syllabus. Nevertheless, I still feel it is good for science question to be phrased in such a manner, consistent with normal English usage, so as to avoid ambiguity.

Problems with the questions usually happen only in school papers and I think PSLE questions are OK. However, because of students exposure to incomplete question and inconsistent expectancy in school, they end up not knowing the limit to the answers required in PSLE.

A typical example is as follows :

An experiment was conducted by pouring equal amount of water into 3 identical funnels containing equal amount of 3 different types of soil. The time taken for 20 cu cm to flow through was recorded. What is the aim of the experiment?

The possible answers that students may have come across are :

1. To find out the the time taken for 20 cu cm of water to flow through each type of soil.
2. To find out the effect of each type of soil on the time taken for 20 cu cm to flow through.
3. To find out how different types of soil will affect the time taken for 20 cu cm of water to flow through.
4. To find out the porosity of each type of soil.
5. To find out which soil is the most porous.
6. To find out which soil retains the most amount of water.
7. To find out which soil would take the longest/shortest time for 20 cu cm of water to flow through.
.....

Our poor kids would be getting wrong / correct for their answers, depending on the school's marking scheme. Anyone can help to explain which is the best answer and which answers are not acceptable and why. Thanks.

Hi atutor,

Based on my experience, most students will write 1 and 3, which should be correct, as they do not learn porosity at the primary school level. The questions aims to test the pupils on their ability to make conclusions using the information given to them. However, for the very bright ones, who answer 4, 5 and 6, the mark will still be awarded to them as they have answered beyond what is expected of them. As for answer 2, it is not quite right as we're not really testing the effect and as for answer 7, the answer neglects to mention the different types of soil, so its not and ideal answer.

Hope it helps