Networking Group - JCs General

[bbbay]

For those keen to know more on what could be the considerations behind increasing medical students intake:


https://www.reddit.com/r/askSingapore/comments/xuibgw/why_doesnt_the_government_just_accept_more/

[bbbay]

At my kid’s JC organised “ Ask me almost anything - My career” talk, one of the speaker is a doctor at KK hospital. She said if you want to be rich , don’t be a doctor. Choose a doctor career only if you see it as a calling. She said it is not as glamourous many as other think.

[lee_yl]

I have a doctor friend practicing in private clinic, same age as me, who bought a big landed all by herself. I joked that I must ask my kids to study med so they can afford to buy a big landed next time. She shot back at me saying, “study med only if you have the calling to save lives, not because of money.”


In my heart I was thinking, “ya, ya, save rich Indonesians lives…”

[Imp75]

Yeah it’s quite a sad thing that good specialists after a while moved on to set up their own private clinics, what’s remaining in the public hospital system is really inexperienced specialist/doc so we are forced to visit private specialists. Reason for the doctor to move is very obvious. mOH should think about this attrition rate losing talent to private sector.

[doodbug]

usaik881\" post_id=\"2127733\" time=\"1705977577\" user_id=\"199461:

Those who desire “immediate” big dollars “upon graduation” should not go into medicine. (Per EDMW criterion, big dollar is S$20k pm gross.)

DS1 and DS2 went to medical school. DS3 did not. DS3 took Natural Science in Cambridge.

DS1 was paid S$3,650 pm as HO. DS2 was paid S$4,000 pm as HO. Upon completion of HO, DS1 was promoted to MO with a basic pay of S$4,550 pm. For DS2, it was S$4,700 pm. DS3 was recruited by a USA financial institution in London while still in the 3rd year. Upon graduation, due to Brexit, DS3 converted the London contract to a Singapore one. DS3 was paid over S$10k pm basic. (Even after the bond period is over, the basic pay of DS1 is still lagging that of DS3, by a very big margin.)

Moreover, the hours for junior doctors in local public hospitals are very long. There are also on call duties. During festive seasons such as Christmas, CNY, and such, it is rare to have all 3 gathered together. Even after the basic medical degree, further specialized training entails more exams, as if student life never ends.

Mockers ask, so don’t study medicine? No. That is not what we have said.

Thank you for your sharing! It brings a lot of perspective to Medicine, which many parents have a very very starry-eyed view of this profession. Do also share about the subsequent competition into popular residency trainings etc.

That said, if one is not a terribly ambitious doctor, I would say, a Medicine career is great for a mother who wishes to take time off for kids, or to locum.

On your DS3 who got into NatSci - I take my hat off to him. He must be outstanding. In my humble opinion, it's one of the absolute hardest undergraduate degrees out there in the world - it's so hard to get in and you must be strong across the Sciences. But the cross training is good - and the top firms in the US/UK do recognize it not for the content (but they know entry to Cambridge NatSci is tough and the degree gives a solid training of the mind), somewhat in the same way firms do recognize the value of the Oxford PPE training.

[newkeynesian]

usaik881\" post_id=\"2127733\" time=\"1705977577\" user_id=\"199461:

Those who desire “immediate” big dollars “upon graduation” should not go into medicine. (Per EDMW criterion, big dollar is S$20k pm gross.)

DS1 and DS2 went to medical school. DS3 did not. DS3 took Natural Science in Cambridge.

DS1 was paid S$3,650 pm as HO. DS2 was paid S$4,000 pm as HO. Upon completion of HO, DS1 was promoted to MO with a basic pay of S$4,550 pm. For DS2, it was S$4,700 pm. DS3 was recruited by a USA financial institution in London while still in the 3rd year. Upon graduation, due to Brexit, DS3 converted the London contract to a Singapore one. DS3 was paid over S$10k pm basic. (Even after the bond period is over, the basic pay of DS1 is still lagging that of DS3, by a very big margin.)

Moreover, the hours for junior doctors in local public hospitals are very long. There are also on call duties. During festive seasons such as Christmas, CNY, and such, it is rare to have all 3 gathered together. Even after the basic medical degree, further specialized training entails more exams, as if student life never ends.

Mockers ask, so don’t study medicine? No. That is not what we have said.

Agree. Nowadays the job comes with a tenure some more.

[Liew Nga Wing]

Imp75\" post_id=\"2127755\" time=\"1705981246\" user_id=\"2358:

Yeah it’s quite a sad thing that good specialists after a while moved on to set up their own private clinics, what’s remaining in the public hospital system is really inexperienced specialist/doc so we are forced to visit private specialists. Reason for the doctor to move is very obvious. mOH should think about this attrition rate losing talent to private sector.

That is why the Government have to recruit foreigners doctors and nurses in our public hospital sector. Not only medical sector, I work in the essential service sector also facing the same problem. Twenty year ago, most colleagues are Singaporeans and proud of work for the people but nowadays, graduates come, working 2 or 3 years to get some on site experience and then quit and join foreign firms for higher pay. What to do? Recruit foreigners lah....

[lee_yl]

bbbay\" post_id=\"2127742\" time=\"1705979371\" user_id=\"175278:

At my kid’s JC organised “ Ask me almost anything - My career” talk, one of the speaker is a doctor at KK hospital. She said if you want to be rich , don’t be a doctor. Choose a doctor career only if you see it as a calling. She said it is not as glamourous many as other think.

Maybe speaker is trying to say, if want to be rich, don’t be a doctor, especially those serving in public hospitals.

The reality is out there, go Mt E private clinic specialist and you can see the long queues of regional mega-rich folks. The cash register is ringing non-stop.

[coast]

usaik881\" post_id=\"2127733\" time=\"1705977577\" user_id=\"199461:

Those who desire “immediate” big dollars “upon graduation” should not go into medicine. (Per EDMW criterion, big dollar is S$20k pm gross.)

DS1 and DS2 went to medical school. DS3 did not. DS3 took Natural Science in Cambridge.

DS1 was paid S$3,650 pm as HO. DS2 was paid S$4,000 pm as HO. Upon completion of HO, DS1 was promoted to MO with a basic pay of S$4,550 pm. For DS2, it was S$4,700 pm. DS3 was recruited by a USA financial institution in London while still in the 3rd year. Upon graduation, due to Brexit, DS3 converted the London contract to a Singapore one. DS3 was paid over S$10k pm basic. (Even after the bond period is over, the basic pay of DS1 is still lagging that of DS3, by a very big margin.)

Moreover, the hours for junior doctors in local public hospitals are very long. There are also on call duties. During festive seasons such as Christmas, CNY, and such, it is rare to have all 3 gathered together. Even after the basic medical degree, further specialized training entails more exams, as if student life never ends.

Mockers ask, so don’t study medicine? No. That is not what we have said.

After the conversion of the contract, is your DS3 based in UK or Singapore? Is his S$10k salary subject to UK income tax or SG tax?

Thanks for sharing.

[lee_yl]

doodbug\" post_id=\"2127763\" time=\"1705983603\" user_id=\"13281:

Thank you for your sharing! It brings a lot of perspective to Medicine, which many parents have a very very starry-eyed view of this profession.

Why do many parents have this very very starry-eyed view of the medical profession? Because many parents have come across doctors/specialists whose earnings outpace the other professional trades (with lawyers being the only exception?).

I believe before my doc friend earns her $XX million, she too started off as a “poor MO”. $3K+-$4K+ is just the starting salary and not the final pay grade. Doctors are not the only ones who are on call 24 by 7 or need to keep upgrading, many other professions are called away in the middle of the night or regularly miss festive get-togethers and are definitely not as well-paid or enjoy the social status of doctors.