Anglo-Chinese School (Independent)
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lee_yl\" post_id=\"2128024\" time=\"1706254395\" user_id=\"17023:
I think we can clarify that easily: 'straightforward' implies that there is a direct and simple route, 'easy' implies that it requires little mental or physical effort. I am saying that scoring IB 36 points requires you to study six subjects (and go through all the IB stuff), whereas getting AAA (inc Chem) requires you to study only three subjects, most likely closely related. It is a more direct approach for many. It may not be academically easy, perhaps. That is debatable, but when I said 'straightforward', I meant it: if you want to know how to get AAA for A-levels it is far easier to explain or describe than to explain how to get 36 points for IB.
What to you is straightforward and what is easy? The academic effort required or the choices to be made? Do you mean to say that scoring IB 36 points is not straightforward because there are too many subjects to choose from?
Again, if IB 36pts is considered below-average for S’pore IB students, I think most will consider it straightforward to attain such a score, no?
Similarly, your last question can be answered 'no'. It may look easy to obtain, but it requires effort over a large range of activities, all of which are compulsory. Just because a lot of people can do it doesn't mean it is straightforward. -
autolycus\" post_id=\"2128035\" time=\"1706269084\" user_id=\"16143:
Disingenuous to redefine ‘straightforward’ to separate out the concepts of simple, uncomplicated and easy to suit your narrative. However, there’s a conventional definition of the word, straightforward and I refer to its Oxford definition:
I think we can clarify that easily: 'straightforward' implies that there is a direct and simple route, 'easy' implies that it requires little mental or physical effort. I am saying that scoring IB 36 points requires you to study six subjects (and go through all the IB stuff), whereas getting AAA (inc Chem) requires you to study only three subjects, most likely closely related. It is a more direct approach for many. It may not be academically easy, perhaps. That is debatable, but when I said 'straightforward', I meant it: if you want to know how to get AAA for A-levels it is far easier to explain or describe than to explain how to get 36 points for IB.
Similarly, your last question can be answered 'no'. It may look easy to obtain, but it requires effort over a large range of activities, all of which are compulsory. Just because a lot of people can do it doesn't mean it is straightforward.
”uncomplicated and easy to do or understand” -
lee_yl\" post_id=\"2128059\" time=\"1706322501\" user_id=\"17023:
You are free to make it less straightforward. But I will agree with you and say that the methods by which one can obtain AAA including A for Chemistry in the SG-Cambridge A-levels are less complicated, and easier to do or understand, than obtaining 36 points for the IB Diploma. If you reflect on the actions required, you will understand it too. Having taught both courses, I have practical experience in these matters. You can do that too!
Disingenuous to redefine ‘straightforward’ to separate out the concepts of simple, uncomplicated and easy to suit the narrative. However, there’s a conventional definition of the word, straightforward and I refer to its Oxford definition:
”uncomplicated and easy to do or understand”
As for 'conventional definition', even those can be chosen to fit a narrative. Here is the https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/straightforward:
[quote]1a : free from evasiveness or obscurity : EXACT, CANDID
1b : CLEAR-CUT, PRECISE
2: proceeding in a straight course or manner : DIRECT, UNDEVIATING[/quote]I'd say that this is the definition I was using. The A-levels are certainly more direct and clear-cut. We don't have to resort to using terms like 'disingenuous', one faint shade of nuance away from accusations of dishonesty. -
Interesting to see how the grounds have shifted from the original question posed about “which is easier to score IB36pts or AAA” to the current claim that it is easier to explain how to score AAA than to explain how to score IB36 points. I doubt there are many parents interested to know how to explain how to score IB36 points.
I think readers here have to read with care. I did point out that IB36 is considered a below-average score in Singapore’s context whereas a below-average A level student’s result is definitely not AAA,
The advice to go for AAA before attempting IB36pts, just means it is more straightforward (as in direct, uncomplicated), but it doesn’t mean easy. So everyone shouldn’t be confused. -
lee_yl\" post_id=\"2128065\" time=\"1706340528\" user_id=\"17023:
I'm glad you have clarified your position.
Interesting to see how the grounds have shifted from the original question posed about “which is easier to score IB36pts or AAA” to the current claim that it is easier to explain how to score AAA than to explain how to score IB36 points. I doubt there are many parents interested to know how to explain how to score IB36 points.
I think readers here have to read with care. I did point out that IB36 is considered a below-average score in Singapore’s context whereas a below-average A level student’s result is definitely not AAA,
The advice to go for AAA before attempting IB36pts, just means it is more straightforward (as in direct, uncomplicated), but it doesn’t mean easy. So everyone shouldn’t be confused.
I will just clarify mine.
1. Please do quote the original question, by all means.
2. I will reiterate, the distribution of IB results in SG is skewed by the selectivity of the IB programmes in SOTA, SJI (Independent) and ACS(Independent); they skew high because the students are good. Similarly, the distribution of A-level results in SG is skewed by lower selectivity; the COP for the JC/MI population as a whole is equivalent to lower entry point than for the majority of the IB population. So we cannot use the relative grade distribution compared directly between A-level institutions and IB institutions in the MOE system.
3. I agree AAA is not easier as in requiring less mental effort on a 1-to-1 basis; having taught both, I can say it appears to require more mental effort to get 70%+ for A-level Chem H2 than to get 70%+ for IB Chem HL (grade 6+, normally). Whether it is easier to score A for Chem H2 or a 7 for Chem HL is harder to judge; a 7 for Chem HL is normally around 85%+, whereas we don't know how much higher than 70% any given A-level A grade is.
4. However, as the original question is phrased by you, this is a comparison between AAA and 36 points, not AAA and 777. You get AAA (strictly speaking) by studying 3 subjects and getting 70%+ for each of them; you get 36 points in the IB by studying 6 subjects, and doing well enough to pass TOK, EE and CAS. It is more complicated, and in terms of hours spent, is likely to be harder because of that; time taken and complexity of time management must be a factor too.
I don't think our positions are irreconcilable or completely at odds. I just think the nature of the comparison (part of an A-level cert vs a complete IB diploma, different student distributions leading to different outcome distributions) makes it difficult to provide an uncomplicated answer. -
Of cos I need to clarify because you are not answering direct to the questions posted by USAIK881.
The distribution of local IB students is not as exclusive nowadays with more S’poreans opting to join international schools like SJI International. Take SJI International for example, its average IB score is 36.7 for 2023 and HCIS is even better with 57% of its students scoring at least 38pts. These international schools are definitely not as selective or the students as academically strong as the traditional MOE IB schools.
The comparison between H2 Chemistry paper and IB Chemistry HL paper is not equivalent simply because the paper designed for the former is targeted at the local student population whereas the latter is targeted at a global student population whose academic level is admittedly below Singapore’s. Moreover even at HL standard the depth covered still pales when compared to H2. As a former educator you should know this very well.
I don’t think studying 6 subjects is as time-consuming or complex as portrayed. After all, at A-levels there is also GP, Project Work and Mother Tongue to handle.
Moreover, many 16-year olds in Singapore study 8 or more subjects at O-levels. Again, if the average student in SJI International or HCIS can score better than IB36 points, it does tell you how attainable it is.
Interestingly, I just realized that only 58% of RI students scored at least 3 H2 distinctions in 2022 A-levels. In comparison, 57% of HCIS students scored at least IB38. This statistic is very glaring. -
If 38 IB score can be accepted into oversea medicine course that are recognised by Singapore, and many Singapore IB schools, both local and international, can easily produce 38 points scorers, are we seeing alot of these students who aspire to be doctor, invest $600K for an overseas medicine course and then come back to Singapore to become a doctor? If $600K is too much for them, they could take a loan , with the HDB flat as collateral. After all, some parent pointed out doctors’ cash registers are ringing with earnings from foreigners and doctor buying landed property. It mean it’s a winning investment to borrow $600K for an overseas medicine course for these 38 point scorers as the loan be easily repay many times over by doctors’ future earnings.
For parents who think it a discover loophole, will
they start sending their children who aspire to be doctor, first to international IB schools instead of local schools, to have a much better shot at becoming a doctor? High international IB school fees can also be covered as a long term winning investment via the above method too. -
It’s not as straightfwd to weigh ‘investment’ in a medicine paper as it’ll need conversion for the Sporean graduate. The costs is just too high in terms of fees & time. For that matter, it’s not strfwd even for degrees earned fr downunder as they’re not allowed to directly practice w/o going through at least 2 years of attachment with a local hospital, and vis-versa. My own nephew & his wife were both highly recognized practicing pediatricians, but when they brot their 3 kids over to Australia, they cannot practice despite years established at their profession/speciality. They eventually went over to NZ to certify themselves in order to practice in Australia. I suppose that answers the question as to why our govt does not offer scholarships for overseas study in medicine.
Provided parents hv deep deep pockets & one hv no objections to spending extra years & compete with juniors of 3-5 years. It’s tougher for the boys after NS. Anyway, there are so many other professions available as options with good grades to pursue that’ll meet their interests these days.
Just a small sharing of my perspective. -
lee_yl\" post_id=\"2128080\" time=\"1706365218\" user_id=\"17023:
I believe I have answered usaik881's question as far as it can be answered. You just don't like my answers.
Of cos I need to clarify because you are not answering direct to the questions posted by USAIK881.
The distribution of local IB students is not as exclusive nowadays with more S’poreans opting to join international schools like SJI International. Take SJI International for example, its average IB score is 36.7 for 2023 and HCIS is even better with 57% of its students scoring at least 38pts. These international schools are definitely not as selective or the students as academically strong as the traditional MOE IB schools.
The comparison between H2 Chemistry paper and IB Chemistry HL paper is not equivalent simply because the paper designed for the former is targeted at the local student population whereas the latter is targeted at a global student population whose academic level is admittedly below Singapore’s. Moreover even at HL standard the depth covered still pales when compared to H2. As a former educator you should know this very well.
I don’t think studying 6 subjects is as time-consuming or complex as portrayed. After all, at A-levels there is also GP, Project Work and Mother Tongue to handle.
Moreover, many 16-year olds in Singapore study 8 or more subjects at O-levels. Again, if the average student in SJI International or HCIS can score better than IB36 points, it does tell you how attainable it is.
Interestingly, I just realized that only 58% of RI students scored at least 3 H2 distinctions in 2022 A-levels. In comparison, 57% of HCIS students scored at least IB38. This statistic is very glaring.
Yes, I have freely admitted that the Chem H2 paper is tougher than the Chem HL paper. That doesn't necessarily mean that getting 3 H2 distinctions is necessarily harder than getting 36 points for the IB exams (note, the original question mentioned AAA inc chemistry, and ignored GP/PW/L2). 580 RJC students per year may have cruised to their grades, while 60 HCIS students may have cruised to theirs. Or not. We just don't know. Hence my answer has always been a personal one: I think it is easier to get 3 H2 distinctions, personally, and I have reasons for it. You don't think so, you have reasons for it. Great!
As for schools outside scope of discussion, consider that the ACS(Independent) cohort alone is larger than the HCIS and SJI(Int'l) cohorts combined. Percentages are cool, but numbers are better.
I have nothing more to add, and I think that ACS(Independent) parents who read through this interesting discussion should probably have enough information to decide if they have made the right choice or not. -
Estéema\" post_id=\"2128084\" time=\"1706370330\" user_id=\"66413:
Thks for your sharing. I got the impression from another parent’s sharing it’s doable for those aspiring doctors and it sounded manageable : $600k, overseas medicine course, recognised by Singapore. And non stop good earnings, can buy landed property. so it mean can cover $600k comfortably
It’s not as straightfwd to weigh ‘investment’ in a medicine paper as it’ll need conversion for the Sporean graduate. The costs is just too high in terms of fees & time. For that matter, it’s not strfwd even for degrees earned fr downunder as they’re not allowed to directly practice w/o going through at least 2 years of attachment with a local hospital, and vis-versa. My own nephew & his wife were both highly recognized practicing pediatricians, but when they brot their 3 kids over to Australia, they cannot practice despite years established at their profession/speciality. They eventually went over to NZ to certify themselves in order to practice in Australia. I suppose that answers the question as to why our govt does not offer scholarships for overseas study in medicine.
Provided parents hv deep deep pockets & one hv no objections to spending extra years & compete with juniors of 3-5 years. It’s tougher for the boys after NS. Anyway, there are so many other professions available as options with good grades to pursue that’ll meet their interests these days.
Just a small sharing of my perspective.
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