Living in Singapore
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I don’t think CCE is the way to go (at least it shouldn’t be expected to work magic) - I may be cynical, but I think it’s generally not taken at all seriously. And values are best learnt by being modelled in the home. Stress is largely due to higher expectations than the person can achieve - but we are groomed to always try to "excel", which means pushing to the limit and sometimes beyond. Our kids need to hear that it’s OK to be whatever they are and, by definition, not everyone can be "average" or "top".
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Interesting topic. My personal belief is the definition of success is very wide and it is defined by ourselves. Was having this career conversation with someone more senior in terms of hierarchy. She is single, maybe 2 years younger than me and pretty senior. But do I envy her or think she is successful just because she earns alot more? Never envied her and will never… So long as she is happy and I am happy with what I have, that’s more important.
At work, I would always encourage my team members in their late 20s and 30s to get married and have kids. I count our blessings that we had kids in our 20s so as we are hitting 50s, the kids are fairly grown up and retirement by 55 seems viable. Spoke to friends who got married/ had kids later and they are like… i need 10 more years than you before I can even think of retirement.
One thing that my bil said when my niece got married in her mid 20s which resonated with me was 成家立业 (First build your family followed by career) though this seems to be done in a reverse mode these days. While it sounds traditional, there’s a lot of logic in it too. So I’ve been encouraging my kids to find the right one in uni (fingers crossed as depends on fate but alot are resorting to online dating app), build their career and don’t settle down too late after they graduate. I was also wondering how we can help them with child minding (not every day as I think it’s good to have our own me/ self-care time but maybe few days a week). It’s sort of like giving back the benefits of what we’ve gotten from our parents when the kids were growing up. Would be more than happy to help support them where we can and i believed it’s a win win situation. -
Actually still don’t understand why must our kids have to marry and having their own kids. It is their own choice. I love to eat apple does not mean DS has to love to eat apple. I think family is important to me does not mean DS has to have same valuation. The global human population reached 8.0 billion in Year 2022 and the human environment is deteriorating. If we cannot 100% guarantee our grand kids will be having a good life, why must we persuade our kids to give birth?
For working ladies, it is also their own choice on giving birth or struggle on their own career. My Sister in Law had abandoned two toddlers. We could not blame her because she had the right to choose her own life and future. -
I don’t think persuasion on such a personal matter is likely to work! I am just expressing what I understand to be the reasons for the younger generation not to choose marriage and/or family, compared with my own choices. I enjoyed my own motherhood journey and family life enough that I would like my children to have the same experience in their lives. But if they choose differently - that’s their choice. I do not persuade or tell them that they "must". In any case, I have one child who is unlikely to get married, for personal reasons.
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Yes, there is no right or wrong. No which is a better choice.
But I will make sure i tell my kid, one choice is captive and not reversible after certain age. Want them to know at age 50 or 60, many friends will have own families and own circle, will be lonely. By then if start looking, all decent personalities and good ones will be taken. And let them be aware of cases of scam love stories. At young age, they may not understand what it really entails to be single by 50 or 60.
Same with those got married but don’t want kids. Having kids allows me to relive my life in a new, advanced world as an observer, something one will never understand until they tried unfortunately. Parallel to time travel…
If eventually they still choose to be single or childless with the knowledge of what is the vacuum about, so be it.
But at least, if my child decides to be single, but one day a boy approach her, she will not reject at first instance and hopefully have an open mind first. -
Along the way I met few people (even acquaintances), shared my experience, encouraged and shared my previous gynae info. Now that we talked abt it, I hope I have helped with a few babies arrival on this earth… dds love small animals. I always tell them better to have own children next time, have someone near them whey they are old. We always talk about getting to know someone, marriage, have kids etc…hope they will do that next time.
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My husband’s mantra to my kids is that they should be happy doing what they like, even if it means not realising or pushing themselves hard to realise their potential. I am not sure if I agree (in pragmatic SG) but there’s always give/take in parenting correct. So for a marriage to work, there needs to be a lot of forgive/forget/give/take otherwise put 2 people of totally different personalities would spell trouble.
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slmkhoo\" post_id=\"2130661\" time=\"1710298120\" user_id=\"28674:
This resonated with me. While many parents complain their kids are growing up too fast, I hold the opposite view, that kids are \"adulting\" too late these days.
I don't think most young people (or most people of any age, for that matter) will do things for the sake of humanity and the nation! Also, some of them are still young, and many who are in their 20s are still more like late-teens compared to \"our time\" as there is delayed maturity these days.
- Kids hardly get the chance to make decisions and learn to live with the consequences of making their own decisions. Many things from subjects, to schools, to CCA choices, to hobbies to enrichment, are planned for by parents, or heavily influenced by parents. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but as a consequence, they don't bear the full responsibility of their own made decisions.
- Contrast this to an a Caucasian kid, who at 17 or 18 has to make decisions on where to go to university (which city to choose, out of state or in state, if out of state, a city or campus type of university) etc. Which university (ies) to apply for is already a major decision. In Singapore, there isn't very much of a decision to be made as we have a fixed set of universities and we are not moving out of country or state for the most part.
- Our education system stretches longer than usual. There are too many long gaps in our education system. Between IB/A levels and university (9 months, if not 2 years 9 months with NS), between O levels and Poly (5 months), between Poly and NS, between NS and university Hence our youths are entering the work force later than many of their Western or Asian counterparts. Our girls, compared to girls in the UK for example, are sometimes the same age, or more often, one year behind. University courses in the UK are also shorter. Our boys are 2 to 3 years behind if they take the A levels, and 3 to 4 years behind if they take the poly route.
- Our kids do not usually leave home until they get married. Independence is \"picked up\" later in life.
- Asians tend to like to have our kids \"reliant\" on us in some ways, not financially, but housing, meals etc. It's what tends to be regarded as a close knit family. -
MMM\" post_id=\"2130671\" time=\"1710302295\" user_id=\"1366:
I seem to be fine with 成家 then 立业 and will help with babysitting grandkids, but the young couple will hv to do their own parenting. I leave it to their choice to date early & trust they’ll work out their best ideals towards their future bldg together. It’s my wish for them to enjoy frdships & relationships early, that way they learn to connect themselves to the real world than the SM world. I wld prefer they learn to balance their studies & parenthood if they do chooses, o’wise to me, it’ll be better finishing studies before setting up family. It’s their choice tho.
Interesting topic. My personal belief is the definition of success is very wide and it is defined by ourselves. Was having this career conversation with someone more senior in terms of hierarchy. She is single, maybe 2 years younger than me and pretty senior. But do I envy her or think she is successful just because she earns alot more? Never envied her and will never... So long as she is happy and I am happy with what I have, that's more important.
At work, I would always encourage my team members in their late 20s and 30s to get married and have kids. I count our blessings that we had kids in our 20s so as we are hitting 50s, the kids are fairly grown up and retirement by 55 seems viable. Spoke to friends who got married/ had kids later and they are like... i need 10 more years than you before I can even think of retirement.
One thing that my bil said when my niece got married in her mid 20s which resonated with me was 成家立业 (First build your family followed by career) though this seems to be done in a reverse mode these days. While it sounds traditional, there's a lot of logic in it too. So I've been encouraging my kids to find the right one in uni (fingers crossed as depends on fate but alot are resorting to online dating app), build their career and don't settle down too late after they graduate. I was also wondering how we can help them with child minding (not every day as I think it's good to have our own me/ self-care time but maybe few days a week). It's sort of like giving back the benefits of what we've gotten from our parents when the kids were growing up. Would be more than happy to help support them where we can and i believed it's a win win situation.
I believe parent modeling is impt, so as to imbibe values that are tested and works towards relationships building than worldly pursuits & material gains. It has more to do with one’s Asian upbringing & our religious beliefs & values.
I’ve moved away fr corporate life, having achieved some success but had witnessed many fights in corporate arena & seen how the singles worked thro their nights to prove their mettal as well as those who send their kids to childcare (picking up way past 7pm and complain, as well as leaving them even on a Sat where not many kids are there at the childcare, just to do their spa or gym) and it sets my mind to raise my kids under my own supervision and hv a less stressful life away fr corporate. Im at peace actually & every single moment spent on kids are well worthwhile every perks, promotion or accolades I had to miss out.
I am concern how SM had grasp the young ppl of today. It is a fact they get info instantaneously but do they discern the value of those info that pops up?
In recent days, SIL has been much worked up struggling with niece on the upbringing of her grandchildren. She’s instructed to feed the baby every 6 hours & not let the baby oversleep! She was told not to hv the baby in the same room whenever SIL watches her K-drama, not to over-excite the baby, not to pamper the baby buying toys & gifts on her travels. Niece uses a parenting app to time her feeding, etc. My goodness! There’s no wisdom or discern applied at all, just app. I can feel her frustrations & angst! -
Estéema\" post_id=\"2130694\" time=\"1710392314\" user_id=\"66413:
That's part of the reason why I won't offer frequent/regular babysitting - parents and grandparents will have different ways to raise kids, and it can be hard to follow someone else's way of doing things. I don't think following an app is necessarily unwise, and I was very scheduled in the way I did things (pre-mobile days), and would probably have used digital scheduling if it had existed at the time. I'm sure the kids will be fine. Mostly, it's just preference, but I will not be able to follow instructions if I disagree with them! I actually agree with the items in red, and I knew my mother would never be able to do that, so I preferred to care for my kids myself.
In recent days, SIL has been much worked up struggling with niece on the upbringing of her grandchildren. She’s instructed to feed the baby every 6 hours & not let the baby oversleep! She was told not to hv the baby in the same room whenever SIL watches her K-drama, not to over-excite the baby, not to pamper the baby buying toys & gifts on her travels. Niece uses a parenting app to time her feeding, etc. My goodness! There’s no wisdom or discern applied at all, just app. I can feel her frustrations & angst!
You also said \"but the young couple will hv to do their own parenting\" - I don't know how a babysitter doesn't also \"parent\". Some discipline and modelling is done through contact, so unless that contact is minimal, that adult will be \"parenting\" to some extent. I think it can't be helped - having someone else look after kids, especially young kids, will mean giving up some control.
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