All About Overseas Education
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I did recall my time, of those who were offered third language application after PSLE and applied, not all were offered a place.
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RoastChickenDance\" post_id=\"2132197\" time=\"1712485099\" user_id=\"161727:
Singapore is always obsessed with exam and good grades. Maybe kids took up 3rd language with lots of Interest. First year scored D7, then decided to drop out thinking they were poor in languages. Grading may kill interest and may even put the students off learning the particular language forever! Why not be like the new A level revamp for PW, just give a pass or fail. No need to grade the 3rd language exams even better.
Especially considering that the drop-oout rate is not insignificant, …,
Maybe that’s why kids like to say “I hate Chinese” because parents tend to send them to Tien Hsia and Berries enrichment centres for a good grade and in the process kills off the joy of learning the language. -
lee_yl\" post_id=\"2132216\" time=\"1712499595\" user_id=\"17023:
In our sch, all subjects are included in the overall marks. So if 3rd lang didn't score well, will pull down overall. But now that there is no class sorting at sec 1, maybe it's not so consequential anymore.
Singapore is always obsessed with exam and good grades. Maybe kids took up 3rd language with lots of Interest. First year scored D7, then decided to drop out thinking they were poor in languages. Grading may kill interest and may even put the students off learning the particular language forever! Why not be like the new A level revamp for PW, just give a pass or fail. No need to grade the 3rd language exams even better.
Maybe that’s why kids like to say “I hate Chinese” because parents tend to send them to Tien Hsia and Berries enrichment centres for a good grade and in the process kills off the joy of learning the language.
My child didn't get a place for 3rd lang but she is learning two foreign lang on her own now, at her own pace. She likes that she didn't have to worry about exams and grades, just purely interest. -
I think Third Language provides an interesting opportunity for university studies (if you can make it to the end). The opportunity is there for Chinese as well, although not many kids are interested in it. As mentioned above, most likely, interest has been killed and the language is viewed as a "compulsory subject" (for most).
I also feel Malay especially could be offered to a greater number of students. I’m sure all teachers will say they already have enough to do, which is probably true, but (nearly) every school already has some Malay teachers in-house. If necessary, re-route or group kids together in some additional zonal clusters (nearby schools combine students for classes). In upper secondary, I doubt many of the SAP schools have more than 20 kids per MSP class.
Other Third Langs may be the same way (I’m not sure). However, just considering the drop-out rate at 6 months and the end of 1 year, I wonder whether larger initial class size would really hurt things? Those who are really interested will do fine either way and those who aren’t already drop out.
I wonder if MSP, CSP, and BI have a higher completion rate due to the bonus points? -
It is indeed not easy to take the path less trodden. My daughter went to her Sch career office asking for guidance to apply for a foreign university only to be told they don’t have much experience in that country. There also isn’t any alumni she could speak with. Of those she found that they studied in that country, it was not the Sch she wanted as that Sch is very hard to get in. Even the PSC Mfa alumni scholars she spoke with, none went to that country for studies, mostly US/UK. Indeed there is no diversity.
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IMO, In that article of sporean choosing less common countries to study in, I think the main reason is because it is more affordable. If cost is not the problem, like those awarded scholarships, majority of them will not pick those countries. Loosely speaking, US/UK are still more attractive for learning.
I remember on more than 1 occasions minister for edu said, the number of hours students have is fixed. If we want to let them learn something more, some other learnings/resting have to give way. The priorities are the core subjects. If students want to take up 3rd language, must be sure they have the capacity. Else un desirable situations may happen: both 3rd language and core subjects are affected. I think MOE is trying to be that rational guide. If top academic performing students opted for 3rd language are already dropping out along the way, what does that imply opening up more 3rd language vacancies to academically less able students. Logic should suggest they will fare even worse and that may be what MOE doesn’t want to see. There will be exceptions. But I think when it comes to policy execution, the considerations are benefits to the majority.
If ask, then how do we give those with language talent exception a chance. I think the answer would be DSA. -
bbbay\" post_id=\"2132226\" time=\"1712535444\" user_id=\"175278:
I agree that loosely speaking, US and UK (and to an extent Australia) are more attractive for learning. First, the whole system attracts huge numbers of foreign students - in the top institutions, the top students from across the world desire to go to certain universities. In a way, there is greater diversity. Because of the demand, the universities end up being in a position to charge higher fees. The same doesn't apply to universities in other countries.
IMO, In that article of sporean choosing less common countries to study in, I think the main reason is because it is more affordable. If cost is not the problem, like those awarded scholarships, majority of them will not pick those countries. Loosely speaking, US/UK are still more attractive for learning.
I remember on more than 1 occasions minister for edu said, the number of hours students have is fixed. If we want to let them learn something more, some other learnings have to give way. The priorities are the core subjects. If students want to take up 3rd language, must be sure they have the capacity. Else un desirable situations may happen: both 3rd language and core subjects are affected. I think MOE is trying to be that rational guide. If top academic performing students opted for 3rd language are already dropping out along the way, what does that imply opening up more 3rd language vacancies to academically less able students. Logic should suggest they will fare even worse and that may be what MOE doesn’t want to see. There will be exceptions. But I think when it comes to policy execution, the considerations are benefits to the majority.
If ask, then how do we give those with language talent exception a chance. I think the answer would be DSA.
The other opportunity to pick up a third language is in in local universities like NUS, where you can read optionally and modularly, language courses. -
doodbug\" post_id=\"2132228\" time=\"1712538573\" user_id=\"13281:
Yes and no. Firstly, the universities in the Anglo-Saxon countries charge higher fees because their governments are tight-fisted about funding the universities, hoping to impose market discipline on the institutions of higher learning. Whereas in continental Europe and Japan, the governments tend to view higher education as a social good and are still generous in their funding of their universities, thus the lower fees.
I agree that loosely speaking, US and UK (and to an extent Australia) are more attractive for learning. First, the whole system attracts huge numbers of foreign students - in the top institutions, the top students from across the world desire to go to certain universities. In a way, there is greater diversity. Because of the demand, the universities end up being in a position to charge higher fees. The same doesn't apply to universities in other countries.
The other opportunity to pick up a third language is in in local universities like NUS, where you can read optionally and modularly, language courses.
Secondly, these are English-speaking countries and while the sun has set on the British Empire, the former colonies (including Singapore) are still sending their students to these Anglo-Saxon countries for the familiarity and language proficiency. Again, since there’s a path well-travelled why take a riskier route?
No doubt, US universities are hotbeds of innovation (as well as being woke) and are attracting talents worldwide but studying in universities in non Anglo-Saxon countries offer a different worldview and another perspective of society and culture. -
bbbay\" post_id=\"2132226\" time=\"1712535444\" user_id=\"175278:
Germany, Japan etc cheap and yet high-quality education.
IMO, In that article of sporean choosing less common countries to study in, I think the main reason is because it is more affordable. If cost is not the problem, like those awarded scholarships, majority of them will not pick those countries. Loosely speaking, US/UK are still more attractive for learning.
PSC used to send scholars to France, Japan and Germany. It will take a German scholar 7 years to finish his degree and the 1st year there will be delicated to learn German as the undergrad course is taught entirely in German.
Upon returning, the German scholar would lag his peer who had chosen US/UK by up to 3 years. And the academic standards in French and German universities are demanding, especially tough for someone new to the language. Therefore, fewer and fewer scholars chose these non-English speaking countries for their tertiary education. -
I am referring to fees for international students (for the public universities). In Australia, as well as public universities in the US, and UK, generally fees are low (though not free like in Germany) for locals. But the universities are able to charge high fees for international students.
There are learning experiences to be had regardless which university one chooses to go to. But one generally only has 2 shots at university education (bachelor and masters) - I don’t see less-traditional destinations as riskier, but a different value proposition (even though its much cheaper if self-paying), but I do see strong value in the US, UK, Australia and Singapore university education and can understand why many still choose to go down these paths. Local universities have plenty of semester and year-long exchanges to non-traditional universities if you want to get a taste of it. Korea is damn popular now haha.
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