All About Overseas Education

[lee_yl]

doodbug\" post_id=\"2132736\" time=\"1713228217\" user_id=\"13281:

Chew Shou Zi also Econs grad

Just googled about Chew Shou Zi.
His is Bachelor of Economics from UCL.
Not B Sc or B So Sc. Lol

Minister’s CCS’s degree is Bachelor of Arts in Economics from Cambridge, I guess same as Slmkhoo’s daughter?

So Econs degree titles can be B Arts, B Sc, B So Sc, B Econs, guess it doesn’t really matter…

[doodbug]

Harvard and Stanford can call their degrees anything and people will flock there regardless.

[sharonkhoo]

lee_yl\" post_id=\"2132746\" time=\"1713230268\" user_id=\"17023:

Minister’s CCS’s degree is Bachelor of Arts in Economics from Cambridge...
So Econs degree titles can be B Arts, B Sc, B So Sc, B Econs, guess it doesn’t really matter…

All bachelor's degrees (first degrees) from Oxbridge are BA - the course doesn't matter. BA Maths, BA Physics, BA Jurisprudence/Law...

[MrsKiasu]

slmkhoo\" post_id=\"2132743\" time=\"1713229970\" user_id=\"28674:

No degree course automatically leads to success! Not even Medicine or Law. My younger girl took Econs after a great deal of discussion, at school, at home, etc. She ruled out pure sciences and pure humanities as she just wasn't interested enough in any one of them, and was considering various courses and combinations in the social science areas. In the end, after discussing with us, she decided on Econs which covered all the bases - it's a social science which delves into a range of \"real life\" areas dealing with human behaviour and choices, social wellbeing, political issues, etc. It makes use of both \"humanities\" thinking and skills as well as strong mathematical ability. While being fairly broad, it requires a good amount of intellectual rigour. It doesn't pigeonhole a student into any specific job or sector. It was idea for an 18yo who had no idea what she wanted to work in later in life, but wanted to go deep into something which could be useful in many areas.

Her Econs degree is a BA, but that's just a name. The content of the course was pretty much like any other Econs course, without the distractions of \"general core courses\" and \"cross-disciplinary courses\" or whatever they are called in universities that are more modular. However, she has curiosity about many things, and reads widely and discusses with others what they are studying or interested in. I would say that she has a lot of breadth, more than some who have gone through the \"broad\" type of university courses.

I feel Econs is very specialised. Personally I would prefer Econs than Bz for the deeper understanding of our surroundings.

[lee_yl]

slmkhoo\" post_id=\"2132748\" time=\"1713231306\" user_id=\"28674:

All bachelor's degrees (first degrees) from Oxbridge are BA - the course doesn't matter. BA Maths, BA Physics, BA Jurisprudence/Law...

Thanks. So B Sc Econs vs B So Sc Econs, does it matter?

[sharonkhoo]

MrsKiasu\" post_id=\"2132749\" time=\"1713231472\" user_id=\"43981:

I feel Econs is very specialised. Personally I would prefer Econs than Bz for the deeper understanding of our surroundings.

My feeling too.

[sharonkhoo]

lee_yl\" post_id=\"2132750\" time=\"1713231604\" user_id=\"17023:

Thanks. So B Sc Econs vs B So Sc Econs, does it matter?

Rather than look at the degree name, it's more important to look into the courses and the overall \"leaning\" of the course in each university. Besides looking at the course structure (compulsory and elective courses), there are probably comments and reviews online. Some courses will involve more maths and stats, others more politics, other more social sciences. Some have a larger compulsory core and fewer electives, others may be the other way round. Employers are discerning - they will ask for full transcripts to see what exactly the student has studied and whether that fits with what they are looking for. A weak student may cruise through by taking more \"easy\" courses, while another may choose more challenging ones. The degree will be the same, even the GPA may be the same, but the transcript will indicate which student is more interested and able.

[SG_KP1]

slmkhoo\" post_id=\"2132739\" time=\"1713229148\" user_id=\"28674:

...
And note: Econs nowadays is no longer a \"humanities\" subject even if the degree is a BA - it requires quite high mathematical ability and often computing and data science knowledge as well. That is why Econs is increasingly placed under social sciences or even sciences. The degree awarded is often more about where the university decides to place it rather than the content the course covers.

I agree with this; you've added a lot more to my post about the B.A. (just happens to be where the department has been sitting for years or what degree certain universities issue). What started off as trying to explain human behaviour with some basic optimization has moved into a lot of math and programming. Just read some of the published research - many probably have no clue what is being done (nothing wrong with that).

I have mixed feelings about how some of the courses have moved over time. As a test of intellectual horsepower, the degree is probably more well regarded today, and kids have the ability to crossover into some of the related areas that were mentioned (computing, data science, etc). On the other hand, some of the math may be overload compared to what many will actually do in their jobs (time better spent elsewhere?). It also depends on whether you want to be building the models and testing stuff or using the general insights from the field for broader things like policy (interpret the results and make decisions). Also, many of the sought after universities in the US/UK don't have an undergrad business department, so this is the closest thing.

I think many share the same thoughts about Econs vs. Business as what you've wrote elsewhere. At the same time, the labour market tends to value them pretty equally (comparable universities). Perhaps it comes back to what is actually done in a typical workday? Regardless, I think a lot depends on what one is looking for in the education. Generally speaking, the math in econ will probably keep some additional things open vs. a standard business degree, but even that is getting blurred today with some of the computing related things tied to business (again, it will depend on the exact coursework and the student's underlying ability).

[00skyblue00]

slmkhoo\" post_id=\"2132739\" time=\"1713229148\" user_id=\"28674:

Having had 2 kids (and many of their friends) go through university recently and start work, I would say that the most important thing is the person's abilities, interests and personality. Fine distinctions between title of degree and courses matter less than what the student actually studied, how interested he is, and what he brings to the job.

The double major vs major+minor vs single major distinction is basically the age-old discussion between breadth and depth. Especially if the 2 subjects taken as double majors are quite different, the student studies less in each of them. If the 2 majors have some overlap, then there is less breadth and therefore, probably, more depth. In some universities, taking a double major requires studying an extra year (5 yrs vs 4 yrs), in which case it may be that depth is not sacrificed as much for breadth. Some employers like breadth, but some will prefer depth, depending on the role applied for. It isn't the case the breadth is always preferred.

For parents advising their children, do take into account your kids' personalities too - some prefer (or cope better with) breadth, and some prefer (or cope better with) depth, and this will affect how much they gain from their courses, how well they perform, and how satisfied they will be with their studies. The danger of opting too early for breadth is that it is difficult to double back and go into depth later (not impossible, but more difficult to find opportunities and time). A student who has gone deep first will find it easier to go broad later in life.

Take my kids as examples - my older girl is not the kind who goes deep, and we knew she would struggle with such courses. The modular system (NTU and probably in other local universities, and in the US) made it easier to choose courses that worked for her, and gave her a good survey of the humanities/social sciences areas.

My younger girl can do both breadth and depth, but decided that she wanted to go deep first, rather than go broad. (Partly our influence!) She could have done that in Singapore/US universities by choosing appropriate courses, but chose to go to a more traditional university in the UK and focus on aspects of a single subject (Econs). Having worked for nearly 3 yrs now, she has picked up other things along the way, not all through formal courses. I fully expect her to decide to do a Masters at some point, when she knows what area she wants to do it in, and it is likely to be \"broad\" in some area where Econs is an advantage. I can't see her doing purely Econs for a postgrad course.

And note: Econs nowadays is no longer a \"humanities\" subject even if the degree is a BA - it requires quite high mathematical ability and often computing and data science knowledge as well. That is why Econs is increasingly placed under social sciences or even sciences. The degree awarded is often more about where the university decides to place it rather than the content the course covers.

Thanks for sharing. Always a pleasure to read.

Generally employers are not too particular abt the specifics of the degree attained? Except for academic. Most public sectors jobs are not technical based like requiring an engineer to design a structure etc. They will engage technical professionals instead. So isn't it not so critical what modules of study constitute to the degree?
Private sector mainly look for right attitude and driven to produce results rather than results unless one is getting a job at Microsoft or google.

So a FCH is more valuable than a double major? So the discussion is on FCH single major vs FCH double degree?

[sharonkhoo]

SG_KP1\" post_id=\"2132758\" time=\"1713235857\" user_id=\"188234:

I have mixed feelings about how some of the courses have moved over time. As a test of intellectual horsepower, the degree is probably more well regarded today, and kids have the ability to crossover into some of the related areas that were mentioned (computing, data science, etc). On the other hand, some of the math may be overload compared to what many will actually do in their jobs (time better spent elsewhere?). It also depends on whether you want to be building the models and testing stuff or using the general insights from the field for broader things like policy (interpret the results and make decisions). Also, many of the sought after universities in the US/UK don't have an undergrad business department, so this is the closest thing.

I think many share the same thoughts about Econs vs. Business as what you've wrote elsewhere. At the same time, the labour market tends to value them pretty equally (comparable universities). Perhaps it comes back to what is actually done in a typical workday? Regardless, I think a lot depends on what one is looking for in the education. Generally speaking, the math in econ will probably keep some additional things open vs. a standard business degree, but even that is getting blurred today with some of the computing related things tied to business (again, it will depend on the exact coursework and the student's underlying ability).

The traditional view of Business is that it's more \"practical\" and probably not really an academic discipline, hence it's absence from traditional university offerings. The view is that Business knowledge can be picked up as needed by anyone able to get through a formal university degree.

There is also a difference in views about university degrees - is it something to prepare young people to be ready to work from day 1? Or is it a way to stretch their intellectual prowess, with the the understanding that the nuts and bolts of the working world can be picked up along the way as needed? With large swathes of young people going to university (as opposed to only the top 10% or fewer in earlier years) there is probably a need to provide both types of university education to cater to different abilities and desires. Employers have to decide what kind of employee they seek - one who has learned to \"do the job\", or one who has the ability to tackle jobs that he hasn't been taught how to do at university? The heavy maths may not be useful to that employee in his first job, or even in any jobs down the line, but it has made him stretch his learning and thinking, and allowed him to prove what he is capable of. In any case, although computers can do a lot, only a human can tell if the computer has produced a sensible solution. Someone still has to have overall control over what the computer does!

For those who don't want to do the heavy maths of modern Econs degree, probably Sociology or History may be more up their street.