All About Overseas Education

[zac's mum]

Imp75\" post_id=\"2132801\" time=\"1713276339\" user_id=\"2358:

The big qn is; what are employers looking for? Do we need STEM employees with humanities background as well?

https://www.mycareersfuture.gov.sg/job/sciences/associate-scientist-research-development-procter-gamble-international-operations-sa-singapore-branch-6d27100e61a648f1e735133c9f97110a?source=MCF&event=Search

https://www.mycareersfuture.gov.sg/job/information-technology/technology-research-scientist-ncs-d3c40a086a1245cc4c9ee652fbab8224?source=MCF&event=Search

https://www.mycareersfuture.gov.sg/job/information-technology/research-scientist-yokogawa-engineering-asia-4b4527cc6c74b5208eebab81c536a155?source=MCF&event=Search

Not very sure from the above job descriptions…

[doodbug]

Imp75\" post_id=\"2132801\" time=\"1713276339\" user_id=\"2358:

The big qn is; what are employers looking for? Do we need STEM employees with humanities background as well?

Perhaps we could look at it from another angle - if your competitive advantage is solely through STEM, how to compete with the STEM graduates from China and India?

[sharonkhoo]

Imp75\" post_id=\"2132801\" time=\"1713276339\" user_id=\"2358:

The big qn is; what are employers looking for? Do we need STEM employees with humanities background as well?

I think, overall, it's good to have students that have some degree of breadth - it will give them better understanding for life in general, and also make them better workers, in the larger scheme of things. This applies differently to different jobs and at different levels. An applicant for a research scientist job would probably need to show a lot of deep courses in his chosen field, while someone applying for a HR or marketing job wouldn't. It also works better for some people who are by nature more \"broad\" in outlook than for some who are mostly interested in a narrow field. We can debate endlessly about which is \"better\", but the fact is that education can't be a one-size-fits-all at the tertiary level. We also have to remember that some students will build in that breadth for themselves through social interactions, reading widely, extra-curricular activities, etc. Not everything a person learns needs to be graded and show up on their university transcript. Increasingly, employers are using a wider set of factors to assess applicants, not just their degree cert.

I welcome the requirement to have SOME general core modules for all students, simply to give all students a basic amount of breadth. But I wouldn't want that compulsory portion to take up too much of the curriculum time as some students will want to focus deeply in a narrower area, and every economy needs all kinds of workers. So I guess it really depends on how each university structures it's curriculum. I think a compulsory one-third is too much, but up to one-third may be appropriate for some students. Maybe a compulsory 10%?

It's been a long time since I worked in HR (briefly in the 1980s), but one of the things I did then was look through job applicants' transcripts. I remember looking at some applicants from US universities for a research job, but when we added up the curriculum time actually spent on the core subject and related academic areas, it could be as low as 60%? And there were more 200 courses in the subject area than 400 courses, yet that subject was the \"major\". Also, coming from the UK system, we were stunned to see \"courses\" like ballroom dancing etc counted as credits! I don't remember if those applicants got interviews in the end.

I'm not saying that it's bad to have such offerings in university, especially when it enables more students to get a university education and qualification. But for students who are aiming to get jobs which require deep knowledge, they need to be aware that just because the university allows and encourages breadth, some of the lack of depth may be a hindrance in getting that first job if it requires depth, or the person may not perform adequately because of lack of understanding of the area. It can be a pitfall for students who do not choose their courses carefully, and give the impression that they are more breadth and less depth because they only took the minimum courses to get their major.

[MyPillow]

Imp75\" post_id=\"2132793\" time=\"1713262579\" user_id=\"2358:

Actually on the contrary, the formation of CHS is actually not a so good idea as redditors have mentioned. Hearsay NUS is trying to save the fledging FASS by combining with Science faculty to have this “inter-disciplinary” approach to education. So students who used to study deep into their science major now has to carve out 1/3 of the curriculum to study humanities subjects (common curriculum) which is of no interest or value to the job.

I have the impression that applying for 2nd major or minors are optional, not compulsory, if a student not keen,
he /she can still focus on the Main first degree modules & no need to \"sacrifice\" the 1/3 curriculum hours ,anyone know?
during my era, not so many flexibility on minor subjects to take Or dont have at all in my faculty (cant recall le), most were doing single degree

[doodbug]

MyPillow\" post_id=\"2132806\" time=\"1713317201\" user_id=\"70594:

I have the impression that applying for 2nd major or minors are optional, not compulsory, if a student not keen,
he /she can still focus on the Main first degree modules & no need to \"sacrifice\" the 1/3 curriculum hours ,anyone know?
during my era, not so many flexibility on minor subjects to take Or dont have at all in my faculty (cant recall le), most were doing single degree

Correct - For CHS, you can use all your 'elective' space to load up on specialising in your first major, and be a deep specialist.
https://chs.nus.edu.sg/programmes/#prog-overview

[sharonkhoo]

MyPillow\" post_id=\"2132806\" time=\"1713317201\" user_id=\"70594:

I have the impression that applying for 2nd major or minors are optional, not compulsory, if a student not keen,
he /she can still focus on the Main first degree modules & no need to \"sacrifice\" the 1/3 curriculum hours ,anyone know?
during my era, not so many flexibility on minor subjects to take Or dont have at all in my faculty (cant recall le), most were doing single degree

Applying for double majors and minors is optional. I am just concerned that the hype about taking double majors will mean that some students may be caught out and find that they are inadequately prepared for jobs that need deeper knowledge (if that is what they prefer). For those who know that they don't want that kind of job, a double major may well be what is best for them.

Taking a minor generally won't take away too much from the student's major. But as there will already be a compulsory core, the student needs to be careful how he allocates his credits. And to make it worse, it seems that it's not always possible to take the courses you want - at least for NTU, my daughter even had to appeal to get into enough courses to complete her (single) major! Of course, it was partly her own \"fault\" - she is quite narrow in her interests and abilities, and there were quite a few courses in her major she knew she couldn't handle. Also, she has slow reactions and the \"fastest fingers first\" type of course selection was hugely stressful for her, and often unsuccessful. So despite the hopes of taking courses she was interested in, sometime she just had to take her 2nd or 3rd choices. The old system where most courses were taken in common with everyone else would have been much easier on her. Not sure how the other local universities handle course selection.

[zac's mum]

I have this impression of local unis that even the module selection process is so stressful (“fastest fingers first” basis). Whereas in Australia it wasn’t: mostly core Science subjects, with a compulsory ~10% non-core modules of your own choosing in year 1/2. I think I chose Ethics (presentation graded) and Pure Statistics (exam graded). Just submit physical form and that’s it. Plenty of space for everyone. No need camp at computer from midnight like buying Taylor Swift tickets. Is it because sg unis are short of teaching staff?

[sharonkhoo]

zac's mum\" post_id=\"2132811\" time=\"1713319885\" user_id=\"53606:[quote=\"zac's mum\" post_id=2132811 time=1713319885 user_id=53606]
I have this impression of local unis that even the module selection process is so stressful (“fastest fingers first” basis). Whereas in Australia it wasn’t: mostly core Science subjects, with a compulsory ~10% non-core modules of your own choosing in year 1/2. I think I chose Ethics (presentation graded) and Pure Statistics (exam graded). Just submit physical form and that’s it. Plenty of space for everyone. No need camp at computer from midnight like buying Taylor Swift tickets. Is it because sg unis are short of teaching staff?[/quote]

I don't know why local universities have this problem, but I really hated those 4 years of navigating the system with my daughter. In contrast, I didn't face any \"can't get in\" problems selecting options in the UK, and my younger girl had the same experience in her UK university. We could focus on deciding on which options suited us most, rather than worrying whether it would be over-subscribed, and having to research and select fallback options.

[doodbug]

slmkhoo\" post_id=\"2132813\" time=\"1713320430\" user_id=\"28674:

I don't know why local universities have this problem, but I really hated those 4 years of navigating the system with my daughter. In contrast, I didn't face any \"can't get in\" problems selecting options in the UK, and my younger girl had the same experience in her UK university. We could focus on deciding on which options suited us most, rather than worrying whether it would be over-subscribed, and having to research and select fallback options.

We could also think of it another way - if you have 80% of your curriculum as compulsory, which was what it was like in the yesteryears, there are probably far more modules your DD may dislike and don't do well in, and have to take regardless. With more choices, there is more navigation to do, and more planning on first choice and fallback options.

[zac's mum]

slmkhoo\" post_id=\"2132813\" time=\"1713320430\" user_id=\"28674:

I don't know why local universities have this problem, but I really hated those 4 years of navigating the system with my daughter. In contrast, I didn't face any \"can't get in\" problems selecting options in the UK, and my younger girl had the same experience in her UK university. We could focus on deciding on which options suited us most, rather than worrying whether it would be over-subscribed, and having to research and select fallback options.

Thx for confirming that UK unis also similar in terms of such.

It is this sg overcompetitive culture that is quite off-putting to me. Uni student life, in my mind, should actually be the best and most enjoyable time of one’s life, before coming out to work. But sg students seem to be unnecessarily stressed out over miniscule matters.