CNA Article - The Big Read: Fuelled partly by youths' anxiety, the internship rat race has unintended effects

[Coolkidsrock2]

A sample of the kind of competition for internship at top firms


https://www.efinancialcareers.sg/news/goldman-sachs-acceptance-rate-interns

[sharonkhoo]

Coolkidsrock2\" post_id=\"2135242\" time=\"1718788232\" user_id=\"48901:

A sample of the kind of competition for internship at top firms

https://www.efinancialcareers.sg/news/goldman-sachs-acceptance-rate-interns

My daughter simply said - unless you really like that kind of job, why compete with everyone? Most of those kids probably don't really like that kind of career, but see the internship and possible job as a trophy.

[lee_yl]

doodbug\" post_id=\"2135240\" time=\"1718787432\" user_id=\"13281:

That said, I am of course concerned that our kids are being sucked into a culture of striving for everything to no end.

I thought it is normal for most uni undergraduates to want to do well? Say, they will try to get at least 2nd upper (but whether they can or not, that is another matter lah).

And upon graduation, when one comes out to work as a fresh grad, most youngsters are ambitious, want to climb the corporate ladder and do well. Only when one gets stuck for many years without promotion, then the person will sort of 认命。So to me, it is natural that young people to want to aim high.

[sharonkhoo]

lee_yl\" post_id=\"2135245\" time=\"1718789755\" user_id=\"17023:

I thought it is normal for most uni undergraduates to want to do well? Say, they will try to get at least 2nd upper (but whether they can or not, that is another matter lah).

And upon graduation, when one comes out to work as a fresh grad, most youngsters are ambitious, want to climb the corporate ladder and do well. Only when one gets stuck for many years without promotion, then the person will sort of 认命。So to me, it is natural that young people to want to aim high.

It may be natural in Singapore, but does it have to be? What does it mean to \"do well\"? I don't think it should mean the same thing for \"most graduates\". Why can't it be framed as \"do as well you can\" rather than \"aim for a 2nd upper, whether they can or not\"? For a weaker student, why can't \"do well\" be getting a 2nd lower or a pass? Then they needn't feel downcast when they don't get a 2nd upper.

And I don't see \"most youngsters are ambitious, want to climb the corporate ladder and do well\" as necessary - there's no need for \"most\" to feel this way, or to aim for the same corporate ladder. This creates lots of stress, and results in too many people wanting to do a small no. of jobs in a small no. of companies whether they will actually find the jobs intrinsically fulfilling or motivating. The corollary is that people who take other jobs don't appreciate them, seeing them as \"failure\". Perhaps it's something we need to rethink for our kids - if we reframe their ambition to be \"a job I feel fulfilling in itself, within my abilities, and enables me to contribute to society with my strengths\", we may have happier people and fewer jobs that remain unfilled. Let those who really want to be CEOs because they feel that's their \"calling\" go fight for those jobs; the vast majority won't like the job anyway, and not becoming a CEO shouldn't be seen to be a failure, but a choice.

I told my kids not to choose a job in which the main things that made it worthwhile to them was the pay and \"envy factor\", and forced them to give up other (non-paying) things that were important to them. The worst thing about working is the Monday blues; but if you get a job where Monday doesn't feel so blue (maybe just a pastel blue), then you won't mind working into your 70s. I'm not talking about the difference between earning $5K per month and $500 per month. Most graduates start at around $3-4K. If you live with your parents, that's pretty comfortable to start with.

[Imp75]

Hypothetical qn. What happens if your young partner is very driven and spend 24/6 in office enjoying his work and climbing up the corporate ladder? Would you do the same so you both can retire young retire rich or would you choose a job that got work/life balance but you end up being very free while your partner is not there most of the time.

[zac's mum]

Imp75\" post_id=\"2135252\" time=\"1718793407\" user_id=\"2358:

Hypothetical qn. What happens if your young partner is very driven and spend 24/6 in office enjoying his work and climbing up the corporate ladder? Would you do the same so you both can retire young retire rich or would you choose a job that got work/life balance but you end up being very free while your partner is not there most of the time.

24/6 meaning left Sunday for dating ah heehee…

Depends on my life stage. In my 20s bf-hubby climbed i also climbed. He overseas i spend weekends doing my own thing lor. We were very clear what we wanted for our family. I climbed until ready for kids then chose work-life balance to raise the kid. He is still climbing…

[lee_yl]

slmkhoo\" post_id=\"2135249\" time=\"1718791881\" user_id=\"28674:

It may be natural in Singapore, but does it have to be? What does it mean to \"do well\"? I don't think it should mean the same thing for \"most graduates\". Why can't it be framed as \"do as well you can\" rather than \"aim for a 2nd upper, whether they can or not\"? For a weaker student, why can't \"do well\" be getting a 2nd lower or a pass? Then they needn't feel downcast when they don't get a 2nd upper.

And I don't see \"most youngsters are ambitious, want to climb the corporate ladder and do well\" as necessary - there's no need for \"most\" to feel this way, or to aim for the same corporate ladder. This creates lots of stress, and results in too many people wanting to do a small no. of jobs in a small no. of companies whether they will actually find the jobs intrinsically fulfilling or motivating. The corollary is that people who take other jobs don't appreciate them, seeing them as \"failure\". Perhaps it's something we need to rethink for our kids - if we reframe their ambition to be \"a job I feel fulfilling in itself, within my abilities, and enables me to contribute to society with my strengths\", we may have happier people and fewer jobs that remain unfilled. Let those who really want to be CEOs because they feel that's their \"calling\" go fight for those jobs; the vast majority won't like the job anyway, and not becoming a CEO shouldn't be seen to be a failure, but a choice.

I told my kids not to choose a job in which the main things that made it worthwhile to them was the pay and \"envy factor\", and forced them to give up other (non-paying) things that were important to them. The worst thing about working is the Monday blues; but if you get a job where Monday doesn't feel so blue (maybe just a pastel blue), then you won't mind working into your 70s. I'm not talking about the difference between earning $5K per month and $500 per month. Most graduates start at around $3-4K. If you live with your parents, that's pretty comfortable to start with.

I think you didn’t quite get me. I mean isn’t it natural for young people to be ambitious all the way until they hit a wall (stuck for many years), then the fire in them may eventually subside?

Even if I were just a diploma grad, I would want to work hard, climb the ladder and in the meantime go get a degree.

Like how your DD went to a top JC then to Oxbridge, that is already a natural display of “wanting to do well”. As to subsequently whether she finds some jobs whose nature do not suit her and decides to settle for something simpler, then that is another matter.

[sharonkhoo]

lee_yl\" post_id=\"2135255\" time=\"1718795780\" user_id=\"17023:

I think you didn’t quite get me. I mean isn’t it natural for young people to be ambitious all the way until they hit a wall (stuck for many years), then the fire in them may eventually subside?

Even if I were just a diploma grad, I would want to work hard, climb the ladder and in the meantime go get a degree.

Like how your DD went to a top JC then to Oxbridge, that is already a natural display of “wanting to do well”. As to subsequently whether she finds some jobs whose nature do not suit her and decides to settle for something simpler, then that is another matter.

Maybe I've misunderstood what people mean when they say \"do well\"? It seems to me that young people are expected to be ambitious for jobs with higher pay and status, and it is unthinkable for someone who can achieve that to choose something else unless he has already tried and got stuck and lose the fire. Perhaps we can consider it normal that some people don't have that kind of ambition, and that it's ok to choose something less competitive, even if they have the ability to climb if they wanted to? (Like that young man who gave up his civil service job to freelance in various things.) If a diploma grad chooses not to try to get a degree even if he can, is that so bad?

You raise my daughter as an example of someone who wants to do well. Yes, and no. Yes in that she likes to master whatever she is asked to do, and that was schoolwork when she was in school. But no, she didn't try as hard as she could have, and sometimes decided that she had done enough, even though she could have done more. She didn't try to be top of the class or mind if other people scored better. She didn't try for the most competitive jobs that people with her degree would naturally try for, decide that she didn't like them, and then \"settle\" for something simpler; she chose a job that she felt motivated her even though it paid less. The job is not necessarily simpler because it pays less or is less well-regarded.

[MrsKiasu]

Imp75\" post_id=\"2135252\" time=\"1718793407\" user_id=\"2358:

Hypothetical qn. What happens if your young partner is very driven and spend 24/6 in office enjoying his work and climbing up the corporate ladder? Would you do the same so you both can retire young retire rich or would you choose a job that got work/life balance but you end up being very free while your partner is not there most of the time.

I think some may just follow the flow. When young don't have kids yet can do what we wish. When kids come, some ladies may feel they should be the one to slow down while the men continue sith their career. I guess also depends on who is more successful then and also in the near future as much as they can forecast at that moment, provided both parties agree. For us, it is kind of automatic. So dh prepare for the kids and I do some financial mgt..not too seriously for me unfortunately. Not so much of stopping work altogether when we reach retirement age as dh is quite not agreeable to not working at all..and I hopefully still able to do what I want when kids are more independent.

[lee_yl]

slmkhoo\" post_id=\"2135258\" time=\"1718801134\" user_id=\"28674:

Maybe I've misunderstood what people mean when they say \"do well\"? It seems to me that young people are expected to be ambitious for jobs with higher pay and status, and it is unthinkable for someone who can achieve that to choose something else unless he has already tried and got stuck and lose the fire. Perhaps we can consider it normal that some people don't have that kind of ambition, and that it's ok to choose something less competitive, even if they have the ability to climb if they wanted to? (Like that young man who gave up his civil service job to freelance in various things.) If a diploma grad chooses not to try to get a degree even if he can, is that so bad?

You raise my daughter as an example of someone who wants to do well. Yes, and no. Yes in that she likes to master whatever she is asked to do, and that was schoolwork when she was in school. But no, she didn't try as hard as she could have, and sometimes decided that she had done enough, even though she could have done more. She didn't try to be top of the class or mind if other people scored better. She didn't try for the most competitive jobs that people with her degree would naturally try for, decide that she didn't like them, and then \"settle\" for something simpler; she chose a job that she felt motivated her even though it paid less. The job is not necessarily simpler because it pays less or is less well-regarded.

We were all young before…. I can remember when I first stepped into the work force, I wanted to showcase my ability to my bosses. At 21yo, don’t tell me one has no ambition but at 62yo, one wants to climb the cooperate ladder?! It is simply natural for young persons to have dreams and work hard towards realizing their dreams. Psychologically, young persons have higher energy level and have time on their side.

For the example of the civil servant you quoted, when Mr Kumar was younger, he also worked very hard, clinched the PSC scholarship, took Law at Cambridge and worked for 2 ministries before he decided to call it a day.

My DD1 told me if she can’t take the stress in high finance, she will take a step back to do some backend data analysis jobs, I told her it’s ok!

I remember 2 years ago, I shared about my DD2 who said she only needed an iPad, a bed and a NTUC cashier salary to survive for the rest of her life.
My words shocked many parents in ksp because this is not what is expected of a 17yo. Ironically, when now I said young people should be naturally ambitious, I got rebuffed. Oh well…