Asian Mums are more SUPERIOR?
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Brainkid:
I am an engineering graduate. (Hello..
My hubby got Ds and Cs, not all Ds, I remember wrongly. During our time, engineering was still quite popular, and there was a large intake.tamarind:
[quote=\"Funz\"]
He's lucky then. Or not many going for engineering that year.
Possible to get placement in local U with that kind of grades these days?
NTU ENTRY REQUIREMENTS 2009
http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2607
Engineering CCC/D--- ABB/A
College of Humanities, Arts, & Social Sciences
Art, Design & Media* DDD/D--- AAA/A
So long as a student has Bs and Cs, there are many choices. Though he may not get into the course that is his first choice.
) You are right that largely it is due to the bigger cohert (due to manufacturing sector boom 10 years ago) hence the demand so the score acceptance is lower than other faculty.
Now, there are so many courses opened in local Universities esp NTU compared to our years..choices are more.
But mayI re-iterate also that getting a degree only makes you better in the sense you are likely going to be a white-collar. But in terms of the wealth and success in career, it depends a lot on the following:
- Character
- Charisma
- Adapatability
- Luck
Personally, I have met some Diploma holders who made it big in life with wealth of experience in business because of the above. One of the important factor is they started YOUNG while others are pursuing the paper qualification...
So, much as a Chinese mom (as describe in article) mould a child the hard way out, incalcation of the right character is the very important aspect not to be missed.
先苦后甜...Thats somewhat the way my Chinese mom bought me up and I appreciate that.[/quote]I agree with you that character, luck, etc are more important than a degree.
My post was aimed at parents who push, or even beat their kids to get perfect scores. I have seen countless parents in this forum who panic when their kids get 80+ marks in any subjects, and at least 2 parents whose kids are already in the GEP, and still worried. I believe that many parents have neglected character development.
The fact is that getting 70-80 marks are good enough to get a degree in local universities, even all Ds can get you into arts faculty. Of course, if kids want to get into a course that is their first choice, they better work very hard. -
Chenonceau:
The reality is that I have encountered so many smart kids who ended up in poly. Even when they failed a module twice and will definitely be kicked out of poly without a diploma, they still didn't want to study. These kids have no idea what life will be like with only O levels cert. The fact is that in Singapore, unless you are rich and can afford to go overseas, you will never have a chance to get back to poly or university if you failed. As parents, do we really want our kids to face this type of consequences ?
In short, I allow the situation / the outside world to punish them. Else, they grow up feeling so safe that I will ever be the one to protect them from themselves. -
tamarind:
Hmmm... you may have to read the above quote in its original context eh? Specifically, (1) it referenced Lower Primary, (2) wisely chosen opportunities to teach failure's lessons. Hence, I am not sure we speak of the same age group (poly versus lower primary)... and also, not the same failure event (i.e., none of the major exams such as the 'O' levels should be used as opportunities to teach failure's lessons).
The reality is that I have encountered so many smart kids who ended up in poly. Even when they failed a module twice and will definitely be kicked out of poly without a diploma, they still didn't want to study. These kids have no idea what life will be like with only O levels cert. The fact is that in Singapore, unless you are rich and can afford to go overseas, you will never have a chance to get back to poly or university if you failed. As parents, do we really want our kids to face this type of consequences ?Chenonceau:
In short, I allow the situation / the outside world to punish them. Else, they grow up feeling so safe that I will ever be the one to protect them from themselves.
If the parent teaches the lessons of failure when young and consequences are less serious, it hurts the child less than when we protect them till we cannot protect them anymore (i.e., in Poly)... and then Life will teach them whether our hearts ache or not. If we don't teach the lesson, Life will... and as you have pointed out, if you wait till Poly to teach it, the lessons will be very very painful. We should teach the lessons of failure early while we are still in control of the child's universe... and can better help them recover.
Might not be a good idea for me to reword the whole previous post here in response to you but maybe if you re-read my earlier post, it'll be clearer? -
Chenonceau,
Even in lower primary, there are many students who failed their subjects, suffered the consequences of failing, but are still not motivated to study harder. My kids are in neighbourhood primary schools, so we know that there are many kids like these.
Anyway, my post is just lamenting the situation in general, not meant to argue with you about what you wrote. -
insider:
Reading the below with great amusement...
Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior
Western parents try to respect their children's individuality, encouraging them to pursue their true passions, supporting their choices, and providing positive reinforcement and a nurturing environment. By contrast, the Chinese believe that the best way to protect their children is by preparing them for the future, letting them see what they're capable of, and arming them with skills, work habits and inner confidence that no one can ever take away.
Source and replies of the above post from:
http://community.livejournal.com/ontd_political/7512702.html?page=2#comments
I think we can achieve all these without resorting to threats, violence or trampling on the child's self esteem. -
I seriously doubt that her tactics arm her kids with ‘inner confidence that no one can take away’.
all this emphasis on excelling as the only way to live makes for very shallow arrogant people. when their success is taken away from them, they will see what empty lives they have… their self-worth will be caught up in all their achievements which are but dust in the end…
they have achieved much, but at what cost? what kind of childhood memories to they have? what kind of relationships do they foster with those around them? what kind of relationships willl her children have with her when she is in her eighties? -
Funz:
Funz,Well I confess, I have done some of the stuff that the author has done in the course of getting DD to do some stuff. I have threatened to or even taken away some of her toys or favourite activities. I have refused her water and toilet time before (how often does a kid need to pee and drink in 30mins?) and I have also screamed and yelled at her before.
Thing is I don't expect full marks all the time and piano practice is only 30 mins and we are talking about only red river valley and the likes of indian tom tom.
I agree with you and I am \"guilty\" of some of those mentioned too.
I watch the kids closely because I know that if I don't, they would easily slipped into their \"comfortable\" zone of not being diligent. If there is no homework, they would rather be watching the tv or playing games. So I imposed on stuff like no tv, must complete the work that I set etc... My kids are only average kids. These are the things that keep me awake like... I've already did this and that and they are average. If I don't do it, what would happen? I don't think we can afford to take the risk.
If they do well, I praise their effort and reward them. But if they do badly, I would tell them off too. I am not the type to say... oh it's ok, try your best the next time round. In fact, I would go through the paper and there was once i made my P3 pay $0.20 for every mistake she made. That was just last year SA2 paper. In fact till now, I still feel sore about that maths paper and she knows. A paper that is so easy that she is definitely capable of but yet did badly due to carelessness and complacency :stupid: . I always emphasize to her that I can accept if she don't know but I cannot accept careless mistakes. She has gone through phases where she did not as well in CL and she cried (I heard from teacher). But after that humbling experience, she sort of understand the desire to do well. She is not the clever type slightly above average and I strong believe that if she put in effort, she can do it. To me, attitude matters most in life.
I recalled my eldest going for a art competition. Seeing her work, I told her that with that kind of work, she will never win. To me, that was being realistic and truthful to her. In the process of doing, I also told her that what is the requirements of a winning work so that she can learn from it and do better the next time round. My spouse on the other hand said stuff like wow, good effort,etc... Yes, that sounds encouraging BUT I feel that I need to be real to her too and let her hear what I really feel. Personally, I don't like to hear pretentious stuff, I would prefer to hear the truth. It's probably a fine line as we try to balance it. -
tamarind:
I agree with you that character, luck, etc are more important than a degree.
I am an engineering graduate. (Hello..Brainkid:
[quote=\"tamarind\"]
My hubby got Ds and Cs, not all Ds, I remember wrongly. During our time, engineering was still quite popular, and there was a large intake.
NTU ENTRY REQUIREMENTS 2009
http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2607
Engineering CCC/D--- ABB/A
College of Humanities, Arts, & Social Sciences
Art, Design & Media* DDD/D--- AAA/A
So long as a student has Bs and Cs, there are many choices. Though he may not get into the course that is his first choice. ) You are right that largely it is due to the bigger cohert (due to manufacturing sector boom 10 years ago) hence the demand so the score acceptance is lower than other faculty.
Now, there are so many courses opened in local Universities esp NTU compared to our years..choices are more.
But mayI re-iterate also that getting a degree only makes you better in the sense you are likely going to be a white-collar. But in terms of the wealth and success in career, it depends a lot on the following:
- Character
- Charisma
- Adapatability
- Luck
Personally, I have met some Diploma holders who made it big in life with wealth of experience in business because of the above. One of the important factor is they started YOUNG while others are pursuing the paper qualification...
So, much as a Chinese mom (as describe in article) mould a child the hard way out, incalcation of the right character is the very important aspect not to be missed.
先苦后甜...Thats somewhat the way my Chinese mom bought me up and I appreciate that.
My post was aimed at parents who push, or even beat their kids to get perfect scores. I have seen countless parents in this forum who panic when their kids get 80+ marks in any subjects, and at least 2 parents whose kids are already in the GEP, and still worried. I believe that many parents have neglected character development.
The fact is that getting 70-80 marks are good enough to get a degree in local universities, even all Ds can get you into arts faculty. Of course, if kids want to get into a course that is their first choice, they better work very hard.[/quote]The link for the grade profile at local unis are outdated. The most recent indications are:
http://www.nus.edu.sg/oam/gradeprofile/sprogramme-igp.html
http://www3.ntu.edu.sg/oad2/website_files/IGP/AY10-11_IGP.pdf
The worst possible grades to get into any course in NUS is 3 Bs and 1 C. And even then, the choices are really limited to only the least popular engineering courses or MT-related courses. You need at least 3 As for the more popular engineering courses. Getting 4 straight As won't even guarantee you a place in the more popular courses like Law and Medicine, or even Pharmacy.
Even at NTU, you'll need at least 2 Bs and 2 Cs for the least competitive courses. With such grades, the choices are really limited. The only course that take in a student with 2 Cs and 2 Ds is Art, Design & Media, which probably require more creative flair and academic.
Getting 70 to 80 at O or A level is a good B or an A, and there should not be much to worry about. But getting this mark in lower primary would be worrying. In the US system, even at university level, a mark of between 70 to 80 is a C. If you get straight Cs for all your subject, you can barely get your degree. -
tamarind:
I guess it is the education system in Singapore with all the streaming that is giving kids who fail a hard time. Yes, you nuture the kids, try to teach them values...try your best to put them in the best preschools but you worry more when they can't get to a good Primary school with all the entry pre-requisite (which we have to think, are such system fair?)...when they reach adolescene, they rebel...all values and moral teachings may be washed off esp if they meet into bad company.Chenonceau,
Even in lower primary, there are many students who failed their subjects, suffered the consequences of failing, but are still not motivated to study harder. My kids are in neighbourhood primary schools, so we know that there are many kids like these.
Anyway, my post is just lamenting the situation in general, not meant to argue with you about what you wrote.
Then you start to wonder if kids are really worth your time and effort. I guess as parents, we nuture them not to ask for anything in return..so long they remember who the parents are at the end of the day and treat us well...thats what we hope for. -
tamarind:
tamarind, what do you think a parent of such kids can do at that stage?
The reality is that I have encountered so many smart kids who ended up in poly. Even when they failed a module twice and will definitely be kicked out of poly without a diploma, they still didn't want to study. These kids have no idea what life will be like with only O levels cert. The fact is that in Singapore, unless you are rich and can afford to go overseas, you will never have a chance to get back to poly or university if you failed. As parents, do we really want our kids to face this type of consequences ?Chenonceau:
In short, I allow the situation / the outside world to punish them. Else, they grow up feeling so safe that I will ever be the one to protect them from themselves.
Chenonceau, would you allow them to not do their work at all, fail badly and have disciplinary records in lower primary? If you don't, in that in some ways you still protect them from themselves, they'll still be relying on the safety net you provide. But you can't exactly not do anything if they do badly because if they have a bad foundation in any of the subjects in the lower primary level, it can be really difficult to catch up later on. While it's best to let the kids face the consequences of their own action, I'm not sure if it'll work for kids who only live for the moment and have no interest in hard work. But then again, I'm not sure if anything will work for such kids.
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