Asian Mums are more SUPERIOR?

[rosemummy]

tamarind:

rosemummy:

Even at NTU, you'll need at least 2 Bs and 2 Cs for the least competitive courses. With such grades, the choices are really limited. The only course that take in a student with 2 Cs and 2 Ds is Art, Design & Media, which probably require more creative flair and academic.


Getting 70 to 80 at O or A level is a good B or an A, and there should not be much to worry about. But getting this mark in lower primary would be worrying. In the US system, even at university level, a mark of between 70 to 80 is a C. If you get straight Cs for all your subject, you can barely get your degree.

Yes if you want to get into the popular courses, then kids must be prepared to work hard. But for average kids, getting a degree in any course, even Arts, is good enough. When they come out to work, there are still lots of chances to do well in life. It is not realistic to push an average kid to get all As in order to get into medicine, law, etc.

Why should parents be worried if kids get 70-80 marks in lower primary ? Many kids are late developers, they can catch up in secondary school. Even if they end up in an average secondary school, they can still get straight As at O levels.

Not advocating that we push an average student to get As or to do Law / Medicine. Just saying that having Cs and Ds, or even Bs and Cs, don't give you much options in the local unis. If a child has to do a course he has no inclination in, because that's the only course he can get into, he can be really unhappy. But then again, if you're talking about doing well in life / work, you don't necessarily need a degree or diploma. There're no lack of people doing well in sports, the arts or as chef, hair stylist, make-up artist etc. Many of these people can be wealthier than the average graduate if you use wealth or income to benchmark success. And there're also many non-graduates in sales, be it property agent, insurance agent or remisiers, with very high income.

In primary school, most kids' marks will drop as they progresses. In P1 / 2, it's easy for a child to score 95 and above if they don't make any careless mistakes. To lose 15 to 25 marks due to careless mistakes is worrying. And if a child can't do 20 to 30% of the questions at P1 /2, there may be a problem in understanding / concepts which can be an issue later on as what they're going to learn builds on those concepts. There're exceptions, but it's really quite rare for a child scoring 70 to 80 in P1 / 2 managing above 80 in P6. Most with such marks in P1 /2 will end up with an average of less than 70%, or below 200 for PSLE. Nothing wrong with that if that's what the child is capable of, but it's best if the parents address the causes for such low marks early.

[rosemummy]

Sun_2010:

rosemummy:

But some kids just don't care if they fail a few tests. Actually, I'm not sure what you can do with such kids apart from pushing them when they're younger. If they remain the same when they're older, I'm not sure if anyone can help them.

I get your point , rosemummy - different strokes for different folks - yes..

I feel motivation is the keystone. If your child should have a desire to do well, even if he or she is lazy.
If that basic need is not there, then the child will not consider a low low mark as failure.
Remember he never wanted it in the first place, so it may be failure to us but not to him. This method is of no point then.

If they are in the mode- dont care , dun mind being sweeper (another comparison that i detest, but thats another story), then something else needs to be done to break into what matters to the child and connect.
And imho, unless there is a great emotional turmoil within the kid, there is always a desire to achieve something within us. To pull that out is going to be hard, and needs strength and patience, lots of it, but can be done. One day. That is the main help – nothing else would matter.

Many of us parents (especially in this forum) find it hard to restrain ourselves . From day1 ( some even far before it ) start preparing our kid. Kids doing assessment books 1 or 2 yrs ahead is common - not bcos the kid is motivated to do it but bcos of us parents feel it necessary. Study Schedule prepared by parent independently and constant monitoring, All the child has to do is follow instructions. If he/she rebels, is lazy , Mommy is there to nag, bribe, scream and anyhow strictly enforce it.
And volia, wonderful results 100%. So how? How much marks to mommy and how much to child?

I think the gist of what Chenonceau advice is that if the child dissent let him/her. And be there to support when results turn out to be not so good.
Give them hope they can with a bit of hard work. And now you are a team - they works with you not bcos they have to. A world of difference.

Its not easy to take it when kids do badly - We get emotional, tell our kids \"I-told-you\" ,scold, scold some more, set up a strict regime, spend sleepless nights worrying...
And in the process - alienate the child. We need to be prepared too to handle the child so that they learnt from it, and this takes effort too.

End of the day , what matters ?
1. they did no mistake
2. we did no mistake
3. They turned out right

Can we rest in peace by saying its not my fault, i tried so hard?

Actually, my thoughts / posts was as a result of a recent discussion I have with a friend who's a HOD in a neighbourhood secondary school. She was telling me that there're kids who just can't think rationally and according to some studies, most (if not all) of them had always been poor in Maths. They just can't see the seriousness of the consequences, and don't care. The school can try every means to help them, but can't. The worse thing to happen is the negative influence they have on the rest of the students. Just like to see if anyone in this forum has some ideas what to do to help such kids.

[rosemummy]

tamarind:

rosemummy:

If they're only allowed to fail when it's \"safe\" to do so, do they really learn the consequences? I suppose most kids, if they're reasonably responsible would. But some kids just don't care if they fail a few tests. Actually, I'm not sure what you can do with such kids apart from pushing them when they're younger. If they remain the same when they're older, I'm not sure if anyone can help them.

They will definitely not learn the consequences. I know many students like that. In fact, they failed so many times, they believe that they are not capable to do well, and they simply give up trying. It is sad because I know that they are actually quite smart.

Instead of pushing the kids to be more hardworking, one method is to establish a routine to study. For example, if we start to train a child to read for 30 mins since 3 years old, it will become a habit like brushing teeth everyday. He will feel uncomfortable if he does not read. The second method is to remove all distractions, especially computer games. Without distractions, the child will find that studying is the most interesting thing to do. I feel that these methods are better than to allow the child to experience the consequences of failing a test, even if it is safe to fail.

However, if nothing works, then I am prepared to remove all luxuries and provide only the basic needs. Give small rewards only when the child puts in hard work. This works best when the child is young.

A routine definitely helps, but not all kids find studying interesting. Some prefer to laze around, sleep or do nothing to studying. Also, their habits and routine will change once they're in their teens due to peer influence etc. Their schedule will also be different. There're many more distraction besides TV and computer games once they're in their teens. But I guess parents can only do this much.

[Chenonceau]

rosemummy:

Actually, my thoughts / posts was as a result of a recent discussion I have with a friend who's a HOD in a neighbourhood secondary school. She was telling me that there're kids who just can't think rationally and according to some studies, most (if not all) of them had always been poor in Maths. They just can't see the seriousness of the consequences, and don't care. The school can try every means to help them, but can't. The worse thing to happen is the negative influence they have on the rest of the students. Just like to see if anyone in this forum has some ideas what to do to help such kids.

In the field of psychology, there is a notion termed \"psychological immune system\". This refers to the phenomenon where that people discount, augment, suppress, and rearrange unpleasant information in an attempt to control its emotional consequences. These children who don't care... have failed so often that their psychological immune system has kicked in to protect them from sinking into depression. They discount the value of academic success because it is too emotionally painful to keep on failing.

It is difficult to help such children because the first step is to establish an emotional connection, and through that emotional connection, to provide emotional encouragement enough to temper the emotional distress that comes with failure. Once that emotional distress is tempered, then the children may have strength to face their failures. But this is earlier said than done. To feed enough emotional encouragement to a child that has failed so much that he discounts the value of academic success, the emotional connection cannot be one of nodding acquaintance. It needs to be a very deep and personal connection. Teachers will burn out if they have to do this with every child.

Whilst failure teaches lessons important for success, adults need to make sure that a child does not face failure alone and disempowered. One may wish to inoculate a child against bird flu, but the vaccine must contain very weak strains of the virus or it will destroy the child.

Similarly, the experience of failure should be given early in small but weak doses so that when the child grows into teenager and adulthood, he is resilient and can face and conquer failure without resorting to discounting the value of what is important.

This is a possible solution only. Hard to make recommendations unless the child is right in front of me. Admittedly, it is a solution that is quasi-impossible for teachers to implement without parental involvement. Very often too, these kids have such poor relationships with their own parents that establishing a strong parent-child emotional connection is well nigh impossible too.

[sleepy]

Chenonceau:

Whilst failure teaches lessons important for success, adults need to make sure that a child does not face failure alone and disempowered. One may wish to inoculate a child against bird flu, but the vaccine must contain very weak strains of the virus or it will destroy the child.


Similarly, the experience of failure should be given early in small but weak doses so that when the child grows into teenager and adulthood, he is resilient and can face and conquer failure without resorting to discounting the value of what is important.

:goodpost:

[tamarind]

rosemummy:

A routine definitely helps, but not all kids find studying interesting. Some prefer to laze around, sleep or do nothing to studying. Also, their habits and routine will change once they're in their teens due to peer influence etc. Their schedule will also be different. There're many more distraction besides TV and computer games once they're in their teens. But I guess parents can only do this much.

Studying does not only mean doing assessment books and learning from textbooks. Many parents force their kids to do tons of assessment books, of course kids will find that it is boring to study. If kids understand why they need to study hard, then they will be motivated to study even when they are teenagers.

[tamarind]

rosemummy:

In primary school, most kids' marks will drop as they progresses. In P1 / 2, it's easy for a child to score 95 and above if they don't make any careless mistakes. To lose 15 to 25 marks due to careless mistakes is worrying. And if a child can't do 20 to 30% of the questions at P1 /2, there may be a problem in understanding / concepts which can be an issue later on as what they're going to learn builds on those concepts. There're exceptions, but it's really quite rare for a child scoring 70 to 80 in P1 / 2 managing above 80 in P6. Most with such marks in P1 /2 will end up with an average of less than 70%, or below 200 for PSLE. Nothing wrong with that if that's what the child is capable of, but it's best if the parents address the causes for such low marks early.

I heard that in lower primary, top 3 positions in class are usually dominated by girls. By upper primary, there will be more boys than girls in the top positions. Boys, especially, do develop slower than girls, and they will mature later. They may not be paying attention in lower primary, but it is not difficult to catch up in upper primary.

Those who lose a lot of marks due to careless mistakes, will do much better once they are mature enough to understand why they need to study hard. Instead of worrying, parents should try to motivate them.

In my girl's school, the top PSLE scholar last year is a boy. He was in the 20+ position in P4, then in P5, he was in the top 5. In P6, he topped the entire school. If a child decided that he wanted to work hard, he will do well.

I think that it is too general to assume that \"Most with such marks in P1 /2 will end up with an average of less than 70%, or below 200 for PSLE\". I wonder if there are any official figures to prove this.

[Pen88n]

tamarind:

rosemummy:

In primary school, most kids' marks will drop as they progresses. In P1 / 2, it's easy for a child to score 95 and above if they don't make any careless mistakes. To lose 15 to 25 marks due to careless mistakes is worrying. And if a child can't do 20 to 30% of the questions at P1 /2, there may be a problem in understanding / concepts which can be an issue later on as what they're going to learn builds on those concepts. There're exceptions, but it's really quite rare for a child scoring 70 to 80 in P1 / 2 managing above 80 in P6. Most with such marks in P1 /2 will end up with an average of less than 70%, or below 200 for PSLE. Nothing wrong with that if that's what the child is capable of, but it's best if the parents address the causes for such low marks early.

I heard that in lower primary, top 3 positions in class are usually dominated by girls. By upper primary, there will be more boys than girls in the top positions. Boys, especially, do develop slower than girls, and they will mature later. They may not be paying attention in lower primary, but it is not difficult to catch up in upper primary.

Those who lose a lot of marks due to careless mistakes, will do much better once they are mature enough to understand why they need to study hard. Instead of worrying, parents should try to motivate them.

In my girl's school, the top PSLE scholar last year is a boy. He was in the 20+ position in P4, then in P5, he was in the top 5. In P6, he topped the entire school. If a child decided that he wanted to work hard, he will do well.

I think that it is too general to assume that \"Most with such marks in P1 /2 will end up with an average of less than 70%, or below 200 for PSLE\". I wonder if there are any official figures to prove this.

Marks is but a number. More impt is not the marks, but the process of getting it and the analysis of how the marks are lost.

I know of a bright girl whose mum is only interested in the making her do tons of assessment books (same type). She did very well in lower primary (scoring about 98 average) but somewhere in upper primary, her grades started slipping. Her mum was worried and piled more assessment books on her. What is lacking is the \"process of getting the marks\" (by my terminology): continue building a strong foundation. Doing repetitive assessment books is not exactly the right way of building foundation: exposure to reading, exposure to creative thinking maths problems in a fun way, etc. That should be the way. The girl lost interest and confidence in the process and she became an average student.

Same batch there is also a bright boy who was very careless in his test / exam and score an average score in lower primary. His mum was worried, but upon analysing the paper, she agreed that the kid's concept / foundation was there but he was just careless. She motivated him to be more careful, and carried on enriching his learning (no, she did not pile tons of assessment on him). She engaged him to learn in fun ways - exposing to books of his interest, creative thinking skills, etc. His grades improved over time and he surpassed the girl who happened to be in the same school.

Parents need to know your kids well and analyse the situation before panicking and engaging in activities that might do more harm than good to your kids in their learning journey.

[tamarind]

Pen88n:

Marks is but a number. More impt is not the marks, but the process of getting it and the analysis of how the marks are lost.

I know of a bright girl whose mum is only interested in the making her do tons of assessment books (same type). She did very well in lower primary (scoring about 98 average) but somewhere in upper primary, her grades started slipping. Her mum was worried and piled more assessment books on her. What is lacking is the \"process of getting the marks\" (by my terminology): continue building a strong foundation. Doing repetitive assessment books is not exactly the right way of building foundation: exposure to reading, exposure to creative thinking maths problems in a fun way, etc. That should be the way. The girl lost interest and confidence in the process and she became an average student.

Same batch there is also a bright boy who was very careless in his test / exam and score an average score in lower primary. His mum was worried, but upon analysing the paper, she agreed that the kid's concept / foundation was there but he was just careless. She motivated him to be more careful, and carried on enriching his learning (no, she did not pile tons of assessment on him). She engaged him to learn in fun ways - exposing to books of his interest, creative thinking skills, etc. His grades improved over time and he surpassed the girl who happened to be in the same school.

Parents need to know your kids well and analyse the situation before panicking and engaging in activities that might do more harm than good to your kids in their learning journey.

I totally agree. Doing tons of assessments may enable kids to get near perfect scores in P2/P2, but by the time they reach P3, if they do not have a strong foundation in languages, which can only come from reading extensively in both English and Chinese, then their marks will definitely drop.

Kids who are under tremendous pressure from parents who punished them for making mistakes, may lose their motivation to study. Parents should be instilling a love for learning in kids, instead of drilling them on the same topics over and over again so that they don't make mistakes. Very often, fear and stress will cause the child to make even more mistakes.

I remember that when I was in P3, I had a panic attack during a maths exam, and I could not think at all. I got 70 marks, and I was devastated because I used to get 100 marks for maths. This was not due to any pressure from my mother. I was pressurizing myself because I wanted to stay at the top.

[tisha]

insider:

I concur with you fully, Chenonceau, at least this has been the way that I have been raising my 3 kids.

All my kids are expected to know how to pack their own bags from week 2 of P1.
.
.
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PS: Qualify here is that I do not set high targets for my kids coz I am a mum who is satisfied with an average B results and the rest of the time they should go and play and play and play. Play was ultra important to me when I was young and I do want my kids to have a childhood / teenage years as colourful as mine...

PS2: Qualify further here that my family is a very closely knitted one that till now still spends dinner time almost daily together. We are open to discuss any embarrassment or whatsoever incidents over dinner table and we celebrate successes and talk about frustrations/failures freely. There's an unspoken code of honour in my house - that the kids can talk about / admit any mistakes without much fear of being shut off. This trusting atmosphere is something very important that I built for my family.

insider,

It takes tremendous courage, self-control, patience and maturity for your style of parenting. I salute you for it.
As a parent I think I'm over-protective by nature. It is very difficult for me to let my child learn from a fall, while I could have easily prevented it. I do let him sometimes but more often than not, I'll do my best to prevent it. :oops:
In today's world of 'kiasu parents' where every parents wants to provide the best possible enrichments and tutions (on top of closely supervising/coaching) to enable thier children to top, it is indeed commendable that you let your children run their own race but just gently guide them with minimal interference. :udawoman: