Asian Mums are more SUPERIOR?

[Happy Mama]

jtoh:

When I read the first article, I had a different impression from the rest of you. I just felt she was telling her own personal story and not telling the rest of the world how all chinese mothers were, nor telling us how we should raise our kids. When I read the book, I found that she had a great sense of humour (as did her kids) and often took the mickey out of herself. I think the true story behind it is how she found out the hard way that her way was wrong and she almost lost Lulu because of her draconian ways.


The whole idea of the tiger mum was a marketing gimmick created by her publishers and it's worked really well. Look at all the copies flying off the shelves. If the book had been marketed as one chinese mother's struggle to raise her 2 girls, there would have been far less interest.

Indeed! I have also bought the book and am halfway through it.

[ExpatMom]

3Boys:

ExpatMom:

Her kids may go to great schools and be able to play the piano beautifully... but I'm willing to bet they will never be able to write their own music or come up with their own ideas.


A strict life that disregards and stifles a person's passion will only give you children who are very good at following rules, but not good at innovating or creating new ideas.

Untrue. A strict life does not mean ones passions are stifled.

I didn't say that a strict life stifles a person's passion. I said, \"a strict life that stifles a person's passion\"... there's a difference.

You can live a strict life, but still be allowed to make choices based off of what drives you. In the case of her kids, she did not give them the option to even choose what kind of instrument they wanted to play.

[2ppaamm]

ExpatMom:

Her kids may go to great schools and be able to play the piano beautifully... but I'm willing to bet they will never be able to write their own music or come up with their own ideas.


A strict life that disregards and stifles a person's passion will only give you children who are very good at following rules, but not good at innovating or creating new ideas.

er. I agree. Like a typical Singaporean smart but no initiative or lack creativity.

[phankao]

2ppaamm:

ExpatMom:

Her kids may go to great schools and be able to play the piano beautifully... but I'm willing to bet they will never be able to write their own music or come up with their own ideas.


A strict life that disregards and stifles a person's passion will only give you children who are very good at following rules, but not good at innovating or creating new ideas.

er. I agree. Like a typical Singaporean smart but no initiative or lack creativity.

You mean it was probably the mother who asked her daughter to write that letter?

[Chenonceau]

I would tend to disagree with the premise that the Chinese style of educating students cannot produce innovation and creativity.


I think that the Asian cultures do not reward/fete/celebrate/recognise highly creative people. These are considered disobedient rebels who bring dishonour.

I grew up in Singapore with parents who demanded everything. I did the housework before I went to school, carried the groceries, helped with dishes and the clothes. I wasn't allowed to even go out for movies (nor drink soft drinks... and had to eat EXACTLY what mom asked me to eat) so you can forget about playdates and sleepovers. And yes... my report card needed to be perfect or I would get caned.

Well... my report card was not perfect when I got to my teens. Just for the heck of it, I chose to be caned instead. And if being caned was the price of freedom, then sh** I was happy to be caned. I did everything I was not supposed to do. When I realised that I wasn't allowed phone calls from boys, I asked all my friends to get their brothers to call me at home... I was Chinese Child from Hell.

Nonetheless, I eventually managed to get my PhD... and I remember that in my 1st year, a renowned Israeli researcher researching in the field of creativity came to give guest lectures to the PhD students. There were 6 people in that lecture, and we did a series of creativity tests.

I was the only Singaporean there. My scores were not only the highest in that group, the 2nd guy was really far behind. He was German, and somewhat of a rebel himself, except that his parents respected his rebelliousness and didn't fight him. Mine fought me every step of the way.

Is it not possible that when you work a muscle you strengthen it? And hence, when a child prone to creativity hits road blocks all the time from parents he/she hones that potential for creativity? I am older now and more able to control my reflexes to do the opposite of what is accepted... to find odd ways of looking at problems... and to try it out just for the heck of it.

But people like me don't succeed in cultures where a collective identity is prized. To rise up the organisation, you need to obey rules. This is something I have often found difficult to do. Things are better now that I am older.

Many many ground-breaking researchers today (in USA) are Chinese (Amy Chua's father was one such). Research requires creativity even if you're doing average quality stuff. To achieve recognition amongst researchers, needs a lot of creativity indeed. One of the founders of Yahoo was Chinese, rebel son of immigrant parents.

Amy Chua (herself a researcher) demonstrates a lot of creativity. Her writing is evocative and holds a sense of drama that twists in your guts. Otherwise, why do we react to her book with so much emotion? Even her threats are creative. And she is creative enough to even put out the book. It's a simple thing to do to make a lotta money but you gotta think of it first and pitch it right. She dared what other Chinese parents dared not. She did what others would NEVER think of doing. That's part of being creative. Elvis Presley dared to take black music and make it white. Black music had always been there. Adopting and adapting it was possible for every musician. Only Elvis thought of doing it in a big way. The difference is, you do that in USA, you are idolized. You do that in China, you are ostracized.

Even Amy's threats were creative... though no one can beat my friend's mom who told her grandson that she would put him in the toilet bowl and flush him away. Even I was horrified 'cos my mom was no where near that creative when it came to threats. Haha!

Ballet dancer Li Cunxin danced with the Houston Ballet for sixteen years. They moved to Melbourne with their two children where Li became a principal dancer with the Australian Ballet. Li was one of the world's best in his time. Ballet is a creative effort. Yet, Li grew up in China and was trained in a horribly repressive way in a school where the Amy Chua styles was institutionalized. Watch \"Mao's Last Dancer\" to understand.

I don't think Amy Chua's methods kill creativity. If anything, I think it hones a child's potential for creativity because it invites and strengthens the child's will to rebel and do things her way... differently. That's Lulu. I'm willing to bet that if anyone tested Lulu for creativity, her scores, like mine, would be off the charts.

The only thing though... is that you never HEAR of famous creative people in China because such souls aren't feted nor celebrated. Gee... you're not supposed to idolise such people. Art to the Chinese are time-honoured traditions. You learn an ancient art form. You don't create your own Elvis Presley style. You don't hear of such people in China (because they are social outcasts) but that doesn't mean the system does not produce them.

I don't want my kids to be creative. Creativity is a burden and a curse. I want my kids to blend into the world they belong to and be good enough to live a comfortable life where they have enough to eat, a nice home and people to love. I vaguely remember that the Japanese have a saying \"A beautiful flower that sticks out in a field of grass, gets its head chopped off\".

Western eyes trained on Asian cultures cannot but achieve a distorted view. One should not interpret the ways and social mores of Asian cultures using Western values. it becomes too easy to simplistically draw negative judgment.

Nobody talks about 4000 years of Western history though in actual fact, Western history is old... very very old. Westerners simply don't see that as important. Chinese people are ALWAY talking about those few thousand years (ad nauseum). This is because the Chinese think it is important to stay true to history. This means there is great respect for the old way of doing things. Hence, young upstarts (creative no doubt) are pooh poohed. Hence, artistes feted in China are kungfu artistes (long tradition), face mask changers (again long tradition), xiang shen (again long tradition). No Elvis.

Similarly, if you examine the personalities of the Chinese leaders, you won't find fiery Churchills nor charismatic Obamas. You find personable people who look bland. These people don't stick out, and therefore their heads don't get chopped off.

Anyway, this is an interesting topic... and it was fun to write this post. just for the heck of it! Haha!

[toddles]

Good post, Chen!


:ugogirl:

Provoked me to also wonder if that's probably why China is so good at producing fakes that are convincingly close to the original, but never breakthrough with original products that are on the level of what Apple produces.

Perhaps those creative Chinese can only flourish in the US, and produce such products nursed upon the fertile soil of the States, instead of the repressive barrenness of China's disapproving climate.

I won't go so far (or so drama) as to say that creativity is a curse in chinese societies... It's just different.

A good friend who's Very Creative got an offer from cambridge, declined it in favour of harvard, took up a scholarship to study before NS, came back fulfilled his obligations but broke bond without serving a day (thankfully with financially well off parents), went to Tisch on parents' money, stopped halfway (broke his parents' bank and more so their heart probably) and now has his own rather successful restaurant. His life is not so bad. His parents' life prob a tad worse.

Which then makes me wonder about where Singapore stands in this spectrum... in many ways we are probably more 'East' than 'West', regardless of how cosmopolitan/un-China we like to think we are.

[Chenonceau]

Toddles, heh… "a burden and a curse" … a bit drama hor…


As an add on… has anyone ever marvelled at how creative Chinese people are at swindling? Oh boy… You can’t say the Chinese aren’t creative. It’s just that their creative people have no place in respectable society… so they go off the mainstream and do their thing.

[toddles]

Chenonceau:

Toddles, heh... \"a burden and a curse\" ... a bit drama hor...


As an add on... has anyone ever marvelled at how creative Chinese people are at swindling? Oh boy... You can't say the Chinese aren't creative. It's just that their creative people have no place in respectable society... so they go off the mainstream and do their thing.

hee hee... yah and how unscrupulous the extent of swindling can be too! wonder if it's linked to the whole make-money-at-all-costs mentality, which extends to poisoning a whole generation of babies with toxic milk powder. haiz.

[Lock]

I would like to point out that creativity and discipline should not be viewed as opposites, ie, going against each other. Rearing a creative child with disregard to discipline spells ‘spoilt brat’.


When my kids were in pre school, I attended many playdates with their peers. There was 1 family who placed nurturing a creative child above anything. The walls in their home were filled with the kid’s doodles and the toys were mostly dismantled. The mum would often say, ‘Look here (pointing to a drawing on her wall), isn’t this creative! Look there (pointing at a dismantled toy), my girl gave this toy a new face, isn’t she creative!’ And often after an argument between mum and child (where the child usually had the upper hand in the arguments), she would say, 'Isnt it amazing that she has a mind of her own at such a tender age!"

I am not sure how creative the girl has grown up to be but I am quite sure if left unchecked, she will probably grow up self centred, doing things her way and dislike anyone to challenge her otherwise as her mum never did that. She probably would also not have any regard for private or public property as she was given the freedom to do as she liked on things she laid her hands on. She may even grow up having no fear or respect for authority having ‘won’ numerous arguments against her mum.

If this is the consequence of rearing a creative child, then I would rather my child be less creative but more law-abiding. I would rather my child be an asset to the society than a liability or worse a nuisance.

[Alex001]

toddles:

Alex001:

My Lord! I have never seen such strict parenting skills. Not attending a sleepover is fine, not playing computer games is okay, but not following their passion? I am twelve and I understand that the mother here wants to discipline her children well, but if she restricts her children to this extent, I believe that she has gone too far.


I agree with almost all her points, but depending on what the child is doing on the computer. Why not allow her children to be in a school play? So they \"won't be actors\" and lead \"horrible lives\"? Well, excuse me Amy Chua, but your dystopian rule over your children has gone too far. A revolution is necessary.

This is ridiculous. If the child could surf the web for reading on information, play another instrument other than a piano or violin, and choose their own extracurricular activities, then I'm fine. But she disallows all these. What is this hybrid regime? Is the mum trying to act 'superior'? I really feel like filing a lawsuit against her, for mistreatment of child, verbal assault and restrictions of freedom.

I am ashamed. Strict upbringing of a child is good. I would happily agree to do my homework, not watch television, let alone even play computer games. But I am simply shocked at the lines \"Or you'll have NO food\". Caning is fine, but no food?

I would continously reiterate this point - mothers must be strict, but allow their children to do what they want. I would love to see Amy Chua playing the piano for seven hours straight. I am a pacifist but I'd dearly wish for this brutal torture to be applied on HER. Her parents' upbringing of her should not affect her own upbringing of her children. Shocking, disheartening; does she even give a care for her children's passion?\"

At the least she must give her children one day off. Just a day, is that a lot to ask? She even has a comic on her character. I agree, children MUST get As. I myself targeted for As and got them true hard work. I'm having the angry vibes here, and I'm not going to stand this mistreatment of children.

Final verdict - give a day off, or GET YOUR OWN PUNISHMENT, Miss. Chua!

Sweetheart,

you must read through the rest of the links (her video on CNN, her actual bk if you're interested, her daughter's letter) to get a more balanced view.

when i read the first article she wrote, I reacted pretty much the same as you. But you'll soon realise that that's not the whole story.

She'd probably force herself to sit at the piano 10 hours anyway, that's how driven she herself is.

Indeed, I have already watched the CNN interview, her daughter's post and more right after I posted that comment. If the daughter's passion is disallowed by her mother, then she is deemed a horrible mother. Otherwise, I think she isn't the strictest I've seen. I'm not referencing to my own parents, nor anyone else's, but I am, honestly, able to accept more strict parenting.