Indonesian maid salary to be increased to $450???

[pupilview]

[Actually I advise parents not to give birth unless they have sorted out proper childcare arrangement, financial support, etc.


When you calculate too much … you will never be satisfied with life.

[znzyzyzx]

As reported in the strait times a while back , this could be some agencies way to trying to prevent their fees from decreasing because there is a new rule that enabled them to charge max 2 months maid’s salary.

[tamarind]

3Boys:

This is a multi-faceted issue, of which, only 2 aspects have so far pre-dominated in this discussion.


1) Working life in Singapore is too hard for working mums and therefore a maid is not a luxury by a NECESSITY.

2) Maids wages in Singapore should be kept low due to a. Low wages of Singaporeans b. Wonderful working conditions in Singapore compared to other countries c. Poor skills levels of maids here d. Any combination of the above.

Let me put forth a few more for your consideration;

a. Social equity: Consider what the maid actually takes home. Is it a princely sum? Is it fair pay for the work that she is doing?

There is a lot of talk here about income inequality, but it is completely one-sided i.e. the employer/govt ought to pay us more. However, as employers (those with maids) ourselves, do we consider what is a fair wage to pay for the work that is done? If the maids work is only worth $380 a month, can you find a Singaporean to do that same job for that amount of money? Obviously there is a HUGE disconnect, and we KNOW that the work product is worth far more than that in the local context. Other countries realise it too, and thats why the are paying higher wages to their maids than we are.

b. The reality of supply and demand: The local supply is drying up. Maids are not silly, they talk to each other, they know where the better pay is, they know where better working conditions are, and like us, when we are looking for a job, they will weigh it all up. If we, as working adults, know how to assess prospective employers, so do they. To sum it up, it is a global competition for labour, and right now, we are losing. The competing markets (HK, Malaysia, ME) are all fully aware of the value that these maids bring to the household, as you are all aware. If one chooses to only pay $350-$380 for a maid, in the near future, one may not be able to land one, simple law of supply and demand.

c. Dependence on foreign labour: Why is there the levy and other rules governing the employment of maids? Some are equity based, like health insurance, protection against abuse. Others are clearly drafted to dampen the demand for dependency on foreign labour. Is it not already obvious how addicted we are to maids, as evidenced in 1)? We simply cannot live without them, regardless of whether it cause us issues at home or financial worries. Now the mantra is \"No Maid, No Baby\". How ridiculous! I am glad the government sees the woods for the trees and refuses to be blackmailed.

Do we believe that cheap maid help will last forever? Already the economic realities will cause a narrowing of the wages between such workers and their employers, like what is seen in the US. Do we not realise that we become vulnerable to geopolitical forces if we continue such dependence? Like being dependent for water? What if Indonesia and Phillipines decide to turn off the tap? Then what, we all die?


Lt me go back to 1) for a minute. In my view, it is false. The issue of a working mum wanting time to relax and be willing to pay for the privilege is true not just here in Singapore. So the comparison with other countries is completely relevant. Are mums in SG more stressed than elsewhere? Its the same question as whether Singaporeans are smarter and more hardworking than people elsewhere. IMO, having worked with a number of different nationalities, is that WE think we ARE, but in reality, we absolutely ARE NOT. The fact is that I have observed a number of working couples with children who manage without maids. It CAN be done, and if you are facing a tight financial situation, you really OUGHT to be thinking about it. Is there an easy answer to this? Clearly not, and families around the world grapple with it, and often solve it without resorting to live-in help. You have to make some compromises, less enrichment for the kids, eat out less, have a cheaper cell-phone plan.

Lets be clear, we are the outliers here, not the rest of the world. The phenomenon of huge numbers of families having maids is a relatively recent occurrence. How many of you had a maid at home when you were growing up? Both my parents worked full time and raised 3 kids without ever having had a maid in the house, and I put to you that the social support was even worse then. This is short term, the day will come where having live-in help will again be only for the minority as it will become prohibitively expensive for anyone else. We may as well be ready for it.

I often encountered people asking similar questions in my blog.

There are many misconceptions about maids, especially by people who have never employed maids before. Many people are making the wrong assumptions because they know very little about maids.

Read my blog to learn more :
http://singaporemaid.blogspot.com/2010/05/misconceptions-about-maids.html

Read every topic in the left column of my blog to learn the truth about maids in Singapore.

Also, note that a person who has not employed any maids before, or have only employed one maid, will not be able to understand the difficulty of many other employers.

[tamarind]

pupilview:

[Actually I advise parents not to give birth unless they have sorted out proper childcare arrangement, financial support, etc.


When you calculate too much ... you will never be satisfied with life.

Many parents abort their 3rd child, because they think that they are not able to afford it. Why get pregnant in the first place ?

Many parents put their kids with 24x7 babysitters, because they work full time and it is too tough to look after them. Kids hardly know their parents.

Do you think it is right to bring a child to this world to suffer ?

Just to let you know, I planned everything very well, even the age gap between my 2 kids is according to my plan. Except for one year when I encountered 4 bad maids, everything went according to plan. I am very satisfied with my life now, all thanks to good planning.

[raynreg]

Hi LKVM, you mean the loan in the mkt now is 8-9 mths :!: regardless of nationality? I’ve lost touch but i think mine was 6-7 mths oni lei.


Wah going by this, sooner or later the helper’s first year of pay all goes to agency liao

[3Boys]

tamarind:

I often encountered people asking similar questions in my blog.

There are many misconceptions about maids, especially by people who have never employed maids before. Many people are making the wrong assumptions because they know very little about maids.

Read my blog to learn more :
http://singaporemaid.blogspot.com/2010/05/misconceptions-about-maids.html

Read every topic in the left column of my blog to learn the truth about maids in Singapore.

Also, note that a person who has not employed any maids before, or have only employed one maid, will not be able to understand the difficulty of many other employers.

tamarind,
I admire your persistence on the Chinese language issue and passion for it, but your blog on the maids is naive and not coherent. So if in fact there are issues with gender equality, is the solution to keep maid's salaries low or to try and redress the balance of gender through education? So if the issue is about safety of maids at work, is the solution to put oneself at greater risk in doing the job? Your comment about the life of the employer being less than the maid is meant to be provocative but misses the point.

If the rules in place are meant to provide protection for FDWs from abuse or owners demanding unsafe work, then that is what they are there for, and should be taken as such. Are they egregious in a way that prevents the maid from doing their work?

Why are there regulations in place that are meant to blanket protect the more vulnerable constituency? There is a Women's Charter in Singapore, which tips the balance of law in the favour of women in some specific instances. Is there abuse of this? Of course! But does that mean that the Charter should be revoked? Certainly not.

Maids are a vulnerable constituency. In the large majority, the balance of power lies with the employer. How can the power be with the maid if we are the ones dictating work and setting pay? If its too much hassle, we walk away and find another one. They may cause annoyance and inconvenience, but how can a maid ever be in a position of power? They are in power IF we give them power, i.e. indicate that we are unable to do without them. It is somewhat an irony that some women feel about maids, the same way some men feel about women, when it comes to legal protection! Ok, so I am now going to get flamed....

Historically, children have been raised without maids, even with working parents. It cannot be that the only way for us to raise children is to pluck a woman from another country away from her OWN family to help us do so.

One other consequence of unfettered use of FDWs at low wages, is that it depresses the wages of the lower educated in Singapore, who could otherwise avail themselves of the manual jobs that the maids soak up. This is partially why some countries (i.e. US) set up such entry barriers, so that the lower wage earners are in with a shout. It would raise the cost of childcare, which is artificially low anyway, so maybe that's not a bad thing.

[3Boys]

tamarind:

Just to let you know, I planned everything very well, even the age gap between my 2 kids is according to my plan. Except for one year when I encountered 4 bad maids, everything went according to plan. I am very satisfied with my life now, all thanks to good planning.

I think very little of my life is according to plan, but I'm far happier for it!! :lol: :lol:

[3Boys]

And this, from tamarind's blog.......;



\"With the proposed increase in wages for an indonesian maid to $450, the total cost to an employer will now in 2011 be likely to be $900 per month if not more. Bear in mind that food prices have increased by about 10 to 12%. Cost of water and electricity have also gone UP. Remember that ALL maids waste a lot of water and electricity despite reminders from the employer.

So, for a young mother who may earn about $2500 or less, it is NOT WORTHWHILE to keep a FDW, because you will be spending about more than one-third of your salary on the FDW. Then you have to spend so much more on your own transport to and from work, on work clothes, shoes and bags,plus lunch outside. Your nett savings will be minimal. AND on top of all the expenses, you get a huge wallop of problems from the FDW. And your young children may not be getting the best care from the FDW.

So young mothers should weigh this, and maybe it is better to do away with the FDW altogether. Try to get some part-time help, OR consider forming a group with other young mothers in the neiighbourhood and share and rotate childminding for a few hours each day to free you to do some of your own stuff in your own time.\"

......I completely agree with. It is an economic consideration that needs to be made, and that's what it is. The form of childminding being suggested in the last paragraph is more the norm in the past even for Singapore.

[tamarind]

3Boys:

And this, in tamarind's own words from her blog.......;



\"With the proposed increase in wages for an indonesian maid to $450, the total cost to an employer will now in 2011 be likely to be $900 per month if not more. Bear in mind that food prices have increased by about 10 to 12%. Cost of water and electricity have also gone UP. Remember that ALL maids waste a lot of water and electricity despite reminders from the employer.

So, for a young mother who may earn about $2500 or less, it is NOT WORTHWHILE to keep a FDW, because you will be spending about more than one-third of your salary on the FDW. Then you have to spend so much more on your own transport to and from work, on work clothes, shoes and bags,plus lunch outside. Your nett savings will be minimal. AND on top of all the expenses, you get a huge wallop of problems from the FDW. And your young children may not be getting the best care from the FDW.

So young mothers should weigh this, and maybe it is better to do away with the FDW altogether. Try to get some part-time help, OR consider forming a group with other young mothers in the neiighbourhood and share and rotate childminding for a few hours each day to free you to do some of your own stuff in your own time.\"

......I completely agree with. It is an economic consideration that needs to be made, and that's what it is. The form of childminding being suggested in the last paragraph is more the norm in the past even for Singapore.

Not sure why we draw differing conclusions from the same starting point.

By the way, congrats on paying your maid so much, I think you truly take a direct transactional view on the employer-maid relationship whilst I have it more philosophical across the concept of maid employment in Singapore. Re-reading our posts in this thread, this becomes quite evident.

Actually I did not write that comment . Look carefully where you copied it, and I wrote in the first line of the comment : Copied this from another page of my blog :

That comment was originally written by an anonymous person here :
http://singaporemaid.blogspot.com/2010/04/comparison-of-maids-salary-with-other.html

I copied it over only because it was relevant to this page, for the purpose of discussion. I admit it is my mistake for not stating that this comment was written by someone else.

That comment did not mention the salary of the husband. If the husband is earning an equivalent amount, that means the household income is $5000, then it still makes sense to employ a maid. Don't forget that the mommy will earn CPF, which may be essential for paying the home loan. So the fact is that mommies have no choice but to employ maids even though they don't earn much.

My view on maids is entirely based on real life experiences. I employed 8 maids over 8 years, sent back 7 in the first 3 years. It is only when you have encountered many different types of maids, then you will understand the truth about the relationship between the maid and the employer.

My maid is worth every cent that I pay her. Thanks to my maid, I can come home to spend quality time teaching my kids. Both of them are doing very well in both English and Chinese. Without my maid, I would be too tired to do anything if I still have to look after the kids' basic needs when I return home from work.

Also note that a large number of maids are needed to take care of the elderly. I have gone through a stage when my late father was very ill and bedridden, while my kids were still so young. I don't know how I could have made it through without my maid. So I totally understand why maids are a necessity to most employers.

[tamarind]

3Boys:

tamarind,

I admire your persistence on the Chinese language issue and passion for it, but your blog on the maids is naive and not coherent. So if in fact there are issues with gender equality, is the solution to keep maid's salaries low or to try and redress the balance of gender through education? So if the issue is about safety of maids at work, is the solution to put oneself at greater risk in doing the job? Your comment about the life of the employer being less than the maid is meant to be provocative but misses the point.

Please note that MOM does not regulate the maid's salary, they do not set a minimum salary. The maid's salary is determined by the maid agency, and whether the employer is willing to pay or not. Most of the time, employers who desperately need maids have no choice but to pay whatever salary the agency asks for.

You wrote \"to try and redress the balance of gender through education\", if you even think that this is possible, than you are even more naive than me. How many mommies can successfully train their hubby to do housework ? Honestly, I tried but failed. That is why I don't even suggest that other mommies to try to train their hubby. The government did not raise this issue of educating the balance of gender, because the government is made up of mostly men !

You wrote:
\"So if the issue is about safety of maids at work, is the solution to put oneself at greater risk in doing the job? \"
This is what I wrote in my blog :
For example, we have to sign an agreement (with Indonesian Embassy) that we must not let a maid hang clothes outside the windows of a high rise apartments. If the maid cannot do it, that means the employer has to do it. The employer's life is not as precious as the maid. (Note that 85% of Singaporeans live in high rise apartments. HDB never give us enough space to hang laundry inside.)

Can you think of a better solution ? Actually I do have a better solution, I have a dryer at home. I think I better include that in my blog.

Anyway, I don't think I want to continue this argument in this thread, so I did not read the rest of what you wrote. I have gone through this type of argument many times in my blog. If you do finish reading every article in my blog with an open mind, then you will understand the injustices that employers are facing.

The situation of employers of FDW in Singapore is really quite hopeless. To many mothers of young children, maids are a necessity to maintain our sanity. Sadly, few people really understand what we are going through.