Preparing kids for P5 in 2011
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Pen88n:
I had just started to get on with life by finding my own workaround and now you've gone and reminded me how unfair this system is to kids without such family support. Waaaaaaaaah! Sob!
What is this education system becoming? Isn't there another solution?
We can vote wisely I suppose... except that no Opposition Party has even picked up this issue.
What happens is that even without national streaming, the schools stream. I got a shock when I read that some P1s are doing P3 Math in some classes in another thread. I got another shock when I read about Higher English classes. These special classes are given enhanced teaching meant to help the children cope with the most difficult questions in the respective exams. The 2 best classes (HCL and non-HCL) in DS' school skip all the Math Workbook exercises and go straight into practising the challenging sums. These children are exempted from the easy worksheets. They receive specific coaching to cope with the ultra difficult questions, and don't waste time with the workbook. They have more time to play even whilst preparing to excel because they are not bogged down with easy and repetitive drills.
If a child has the potential to tackle the difficult math questions, but spends all his time doing the easy ones, his full potential is not realized. And there is SO MUCH homework!! My son was a 90+ in Math, Science and English. He was a 75+ ONLY in Chinese. For Math Science and English, he did better than many students currently in the best HCL class. However, he is now being taught as if he were only capable of 80+ in all four subjects.
Maybe this isn't a system problem though... I think he is just in the wrong class... and there are so many students in one class that teachers cannot customise the approach to the individual child. -
Chenonceau:
Aiyo... dunno leh... but I take your advice seriously. We now work on oral and compo practice. To save him time, I actually do the easy Math worksheets for him so he has time to practise the challenging sums and also to do Chinese.[/quote]For my son's Maths, I believe he has not mastered the fundamentals...so he really needs to master those concepts well.Brenda10:
[quote=\"Chenonceau\"]Of course, I'm still expecting 90+ in general... but in the specific, every situation requires a different solution - different exams/subjects/time period... and so I am flexible. EVEN THOUGH I make it very clear that 90+ is where he should end up by end-P6.
In fact, the syllabus for P6 has almost all completed now and understands from her form teacher after SA1 they would just focus on working a lot on oral, compo. practice and pass year paper on class or during supplementary class time.
I take all advice given by parents here seriously...bcos they have gone through and understand what is going on.
On my side, I download Science OE questions so that he can read the answers and learn from them. -
Chenonceau:
Well, I suppose this is not something that an Opposition Party or any Party can solve easily. I think the system in itself is good but along the way, it is being executed badly by some schools .....Most of us, including myself, are simply kiasu. We do not want our kids to be at the bottom of any cohort. But if we look at the streaming system objectively, isn't it good if the academically stronger kids being given an opportunity to go at a faster teaching pace and the weaker ones be given more time to catch up? I think the issue is most parents do not want their kids to be deeemed \"the weaker ones\". So some parents will try to let their children attend extra classes, etc... it is a vicious cycle....
We can vote wisely I suppose... except that no Opposition Party has even picked up this issue. -
Education is something which needs to be addressed SERIOUSLY.
We are kiasu because the system made us so. Which parent wants their kids to do badly and be at bottom of cohort ? That said, my son is not at the top…struggling hard this year just to maintain. But in his class, the competition is so intense based on CA1 results.
Hubby & I try not to give him tuition unless both of us cannot teach…just started him on Math classes yesterday & creative writing last mth…very last minute indeed. -
Chenonceau:
I think this is a case of the school streaming system not taking into consideration the strengths and weaknesses of the kid for individual subjects. If it is streamed purely based on all subjects average, this issue will surface.
I had just started to get on with life by finding my own workaround and now you've gone and reminded me how unfair this system is to kids without such family support. Waaaaaaaaah! Sob!Pen88n:
What is this education system becoming? Isn't there another solution? We can vote wisely I suppose... except that no Opposition Party has even picked up this issue.
What happens is that even without national streaming, the schools stream. I got a shock when I read that some P1s are doing P3 Math in some classes in another thread. I got another shock when I read about Higher English classes. These special classes are given enhanced teaching meant to help the children cope with the most difficult questions in the respective exams. The 2 best classes (HCL and non-HCL) in DS' school skip all the Math Workbook exercises and go straight into practising the challenging sums. These children are exempted from the easy worksheets. They receive specific coaching to cope with the ultra difficult questions, and don't waste time with the workbook. They have more time to play even whilst preparing to excel because they are not bogged down with easy and repetitive drills.
If a child has the potential to tackle the difficult math questions, but spends all his time doing the easy ones, his full potential is not realized. And there is SO MUCH homework!! My son was a 90+ in Math, Science and English. He was a 75+ ONLY in Chinese. For Math Science and English, he did better than many students currently in the best HCL class. However, he is now being taught as if he were only capable of 80+ in all four subjects.
Maybe this isn't a system problem though... I think he is just in the wrong class... and there are so many students in one class that teachers cannot customise the approach to the individual child.
Upon hearing you say that you are doing the easy Maths worksheet for your DS so that he has time for the more challenging questions, I really :shock: :faint: . I dread the day I have to do that for my DD (in P1 only) :!: and if I really have to do so and end up the one dishing out the challenging questions (cos not covered by school) , I might as well home-school her! Afterall, the parent is the one doing all the work, so why bother to go school to collect the easy-to-do homework?? :stupid: :stupid: :stupid:
So far for DS, his school provide from basic to challenging Maths worksheets for the students, but again, I do not know if it is because he is in the top classes. I really think family support is very important for kids nowadays, and I sympathise with those families who are unable to provide the learning and other guidance for their kids. It is no longer a level playing field. Is this what the education system should be? -
I think there are more sensational issues such as foreign talents, ministerial pay and the such. Education - only parents with at least P5 and above children will relate to ? How many percentage of voters is that ? Politics is a practical game. Even in this forum we hardly get same opinions of how the workload,competition,stressed can be managed.
Pen88n - ds’s school streamed on 4 subjects so it is average like you said. But another school in my area stream based on 3 subject (without the MT) so it depends. The way they group the "top" pupils in the classes may also be different in different schools.
So close to exams we are still drowning in homework ! -
The Fallacy of the Bell Curve
It has become accepted truth that when the population is large enough, people fall along a normal distribution curve (or bell curve) in just about every phenomenon. Fat-to-skinny people. Tall-to-short people. Smart-to-stupid people. High academic scores to low academic scores. Very few are at the very top, and very few at the very bottom. Most people are average. Click the following link to see how the RED LINE denotes the bell curve (or standard normal distribution) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution.
In educational testing (as well as in employee performance management) people force fit the grades into a bell curve - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_curve_grading because the assumption is that every population, if large enough would fit a normal distribution curve (i.e., a bell curve).
Is this true?
One innovative HR Director (trained as an engineer and with a tendancy to question/challenge consultants) told me bluntly one day. \"If I recruit well and have a conducive environment for high performance, why should my staff performance grades fall along a normal distribution curve? Why should I force fit my people so that I can pay bonuses along a bell curve? Here, in this company, about 50% of my people can get A performance grade because they are both smart (we recruited well) and hardworking (we have a conducive environment). In this company we do not shy away from paying people the bonuses they deserve. If I recruit well and manage well, my performance bell curve should be skewed. The normal distribution curve works with random events. In here, performance is not random. It is managed.\"
Singaporean students often end up top of the heap in top end educational institutions abroad. We win the Angus Ross prize every year. I know one who was valedictorian in Ivy League. I know others who competed with Americans and became the first non-American (not first Singaporean) to top the cohort or win some prize or other. Are we genetically smarter? Probably not. Are we better educated? Probably yes.
The MOE of the past decades TAUGHT well. Singapore education is a managed environment. Parents, teachers, tutors manage the education so well that our students breeze through alternative education systems without breaking stride. Let's use the exact words of my HR Director friend to argue for why we should not be doing bell curve grading in the PSLE.
\"If I TEACH well and have a conducive environment for LEARNING, why should my STUDENTS' grades fall along a normal distribution curve? Why should I force fit my STUDENTS so that I can pop them into the right educational institutions? Here, in this COUNTRY, about 80% of my people can get A performance grade because we TEACH well and STUDENTS are hardworking. In this COUNTRY, we do not shy away from giving students the opportunities they deserve. If I TEACH well and STUDENTS study hard, my performance bell curve should be skewed. The normal distribution curve works with random events. In this COUNTRY, STUDENT performance is not random. It is managed.\"
The PSLE gets more and more difficult because no one dares to question the tyranny of the bell curve. If, in this year's PSLE, the bell curve is skewed, the exam is considered poorly set because it is too easy. Next year's exam gets harder lor... so that the bell curve's belly goes back to closer to the middle (i.e., curve looks more like a normal distribution one). Then guess what, the schools push the students harder to do better. More classes, tougher homework, more homework. Thanks to parent and school hothousing, the kids rise to the occasion and the bell curve is skewed again. So the following year's PSLE gets a little bit harder. More hothousing follows, till it becomes a challenge to even maintain Play Day. To protect DS' Play Day, I do his easy Math homework sheets so that he can use the time to do the challenging sums.
Play day is important to us... for both religion as well as health (mental and emotional).
We are kiasu because we are always trying to beat the bell curve. Do people realize how easy the solution is? The tyranny of the bell curve stems from the sacrosanct belief that it is TRUTH. The moment you stop believing in it, the system becomes less competitive. Learning becomes a lifetime of fun, not 12 years of cut throat competition that compel young girls of 10 to blackmail their classmates (see...http://petunialee.blogspot.com/2011/04/p-bullied-gong-gong.html) in a bid to survive the system. In the company I mentioned above, employees hold tenure of 18 years. Not a few. MANY are long-serving. Because they don't grade on a bell curve, people are less competitive and more loving. They go to work with friends. Friends working in teams produce results and the company is a very profitable one.
I challenge the PSLE t-score. If we don't grade on a bell curve, children (and parents) become less competitive and more open to learning. How well can students learn when they have to do assessment after assessment? The learning should come first. Not the testing. In the 2 subjects (Science and English) where my son scores without ever touching an assessment book, we have been exploring the domains JUST FOR FUN for years. I never thought it would help him score in P5. Without knowing, my family bonded over the mountains of fiction and non-fiction books that we discussed over meals... and the many experiments we did when there was nothing else to do. People learn better that way... and it is not competitive.
Some friends from my uni days are Israeli. They are shocked at how we pigeonhole our kids based on their precise position on a bell curve. In Finland too, the system is not so competitive but learning is effective (if not more). Is the COP the only way to distribute student talent? Why can't we pick a number of secondary schools and call them GOOD schools? Put students in there RANDOMLY who range from 240 to 280. This way it is less precise but it is still possible to teach compared to a range that stretches from 180 to 280. This way too, secondary students evolve with classmates of varying abilities. They make friends. Elitism does not get a chance to take root. Delinquents aren't concentrated in any one school either.
Personally, I didn't bat an eyelid when my kids scored at the bottom of their classes in P1 and P2. In P5 and P6, I WILL NOT let that happen. I know they will be pigeonholed and that the results will determine either a wealth of.... or a dearth of developmental opportunities in secondary school. It is my responsibility to help them because the consequences are severe. If the system stops pigeonholing... it may help people be less kiasu... Mixed ability teaching teaches many life lessons which our best and brightest should learn - empathy, compassion, helping friends, loving (not competing).
Just some ideas. -
Chenonceau:
But what if it happens time & time again, despite whatever efforts you put in with your child? My no.3 never scored at the bottom of his class but is doing so now in p5 & p6. Can I say that I will NOT let that happen? How can I stop it from happening, I wonder. Wishful thinking, that's all I can say. Some things just happen. Makes me wish I'd stopped at 2 kids.\"
Personally, I didn't bat an eyelid when my kids scored at the bottom of their classes in P1 and P2. In P5 and P6, I WILL NOT let that happen.. -
phankao:
I know.... I am sure there are many parents who feel like you do. Does it mean that all Mothers must now have a degree in Psychology to be able to help their kids through PSLE? What about kids with no parents? Absent parents? Parents in jail? The inequalities of the education system will not be felt till 20 years later. By then, it would be 20 years of damage.
But what if it happens time & time again, despite whatever efforts you put in with your child? My no.3 never scored at the bottom of his class but is doing so now in p5 & p6. Can I say that I will NOT let that happen? How can I stop it from happening, I wonder. Wishful thinking, that's all I can say. Some things just happen. Makes me wish I'd stopped at 2 kids.Chenonceau:
\"
Personally, I didn't bat an eyelid when my kids scored at the bottom of their classes in P1 and P2. In P5 and P6, I WILL NOT let that happen..
By the way, is your 3rd very much less intelligent than the earlier 2? Are you a different mother than when you parented the earlier 2 through PSLE? Has your approach to child rearing changed? Or is it that you too notice the great jump on standards? -
Chenonceau:
I know.... I am sure there are many parents who feel like you do. Does it mean that all Mothers must now have a degree in Psychology to be able to help their kids through PSLE? What about kids with no parents? Absent parents? Parents in jail? The inequalities of the education system will not be felt till 20 years later. By then, it would be 20 years of damage.
But what if it happens time & time again, despite whatever efforts you put in with your child? My no.3 never scored at the bottom of his class but is doing so now in p5 & p6. Can I say that I will NOT let that happen? How can I stop it from happening, I wonder. Wishful thinking, that's all I can say. Some things just happen. Makes me wish I'd stopped at 2 kids.phankao:
[quote=\"Chenonceau\"]\"
Personally, I didn't bat an eyelid when my kids scored at the bottom of their classes in P1 and P2. In P5 and P6, I WILL NOT let that happen..
By the way, is your 3rd very much less intelligent than the earlier 2? Are you a different mother than when you parented the earlier 2 through PSLE? Has your approach to child rearing changed? Or is it that you too notice the great jump on standards?[/quote]He is not less intelligent. On the contrary. He is very different in his attitude though. That's most worrying. I never quite had to worry about the older ones bc they never did as poorly. And I rarely helped any of them in their studies, but I'm having to try with this one.
Jump in standards? So what if there is? If 70% of the cohort can do better than him, then I don't see why he can't.
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