Post GE 2011 Discussion

[limlim]

Daddy

Correct me if I'm wrong....
http://www.guidemesingapore.com/relocation/work-pass/singapore-work-permit-schemes

Quota System: There is no quota official system for Employment Pass. (> $2,500)
Quota System: Yes for S Pass (<$1800)... (25% of workforce)

There should be similar info in MOM website...
So a lot of competition from \"cheaper\" Employment Pass holders?

S Pass is > $1800
Work Permit < $1,800

[limlim]

verykiasu2010:

and the jamban lady moved out from LHL's grc, or originally not there ?

What is jamban?

If they really want to groom TPL, they can always keep her by PM's side, instead of pushing to SM..

[Daddy D]

verykiasu2010:

solid examples : Shanghai's minimum pay is higher than Shenzhen, Shenzhen's minimum is higher than Chengdu......result : people like Foxconn is setting up inland and uproot production from their old place

If our garmen can attract Foxconn-style companies to SG, I'm sure they will go ahead... but at what cost?
Companies can relocate to any countries with cheaper labour... there's no guarantee that they will stay put in one.
So in order to entice these companies from relocating to other countries... we bring in those cheaper labour.
Sure, it helps our GDP figures... shows our good employment rate... but at what cost?

[WeiHan]

verykiasu2010:

this is not speculative

they have been persuaded to move fund management to singapore

i was at their geneva office

OK. Now, I understand it is their fund management. Do they have initial intention to move to Singapore or it is just the Singapore government that want to persuade them to come? If they are just going to relocate a few experience managers here but will bring along 20 new jobs. That is a good deal for Singapore. But if we allow a factory to set which brings in only a few managerial jobs but have to let in a few hundreds foreign workers, then it wouldn't be a good deal. I guess there is a balance. the government should come out with a quantitative outline of which kind is allowed while others are not beneficial for singapore.

[concern2]

verykiasu2010:

WeiHan:

[quote=\"verykiasu2010\"]
Imagine i am a swiss bank

your government entice me to set up shop in SG and entice me to move my clients' fund to be managed out of SG and to invest in the region. For a start I may transfer 1 billion SFR to SG to manage.

look, I am going to relocate my Swiss managers from Geneva or Zurich to work in Singapore to continue to manage the client relationship while getting them to understand the region and make investment decision for their clients.

SG has no managers / prof equal to the job ? sure have, even cheaper, perhaps even more capable, but for the sake of my clients who have parked billions with my bank, I am not going to risk it. they can play the supporting role, gather market intelligence, do the credit analysis etc. make the investment decision ? No way, even when I know many SG citizens qualify for the job, because my bank's clients don't know them.

If the SG government does not allow my bank to relocate my experienced managers to work in SG, then I won't bring my bank to SG.

the same scenarios play out multiple times

This scenario is speculative.If they already have their billion dollars clients, then why do they need to locate to Singapore? Shouldn't the motive be that they need to hire local talents (managers) so that they can get billion dollars clients in this region?

this is not speculative


they have been persuaded to move fund management to singapore

i was at their geneva office[/quote]How does Singapore benefit from this move, and what impact will it have for Singaporeans? Keen to learn something new here... :salute:

[verykiasu2010]

limlim:

verykiasu2010:

and the jamban lady moved out from LHL's grc, or originally not there ?

What is jamban?

If they really want to groom TPL, they can always keep her by PM's side, instead of pushing to SM..

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: the one who created the table tennis storm :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

[Daddy D]

limlim:

Daddy

Correct me if I'm wrong....
http://www.guidemesingapore.com/relocation/work-pass/singapore-work-permit-schemes

Quota System: There is no quota official system for Employment Pass. (> $2,500)
Quota System: Yes for S Pass (<$1800)... (25% of workforce)

There should be similar info in MOM website...
So a lot of competition from \"cheaper\" Employment Pass holders?

S Pass is > $1800
Work Permit < $1,800

Noted...
So for \"Professionals\" >$2500
for \"mid-level skilled workers\" >$1800
for \"skilled & semi-skilled workers\" <$1800

If I based on that benchmark to employ my staffs... why should I pay anything more?

[verykiasu2010]

concern2:

How does Singapore benefit from this move, and what impact will it have for Singaporeans? Keen to learn something new here... :salute:

the spin off effect on the financial services sector: some jobs are directly created, more jobs are created indirectly, eg more biz for services of lawyers, accountants; other spin offs : more turnover for F&B, courier, travel, housing, transport, telecom, etc etc

it also has the multiplier effect, and the reverse is true too! like what i quoted the Maersk - PSA saga, indirect job lost is a few times the direct job lost....so many ship-supplies biz close down etc etc

[verykiasu2010]

Daddy

verykiasu2010:

solid examples : Shanghai's minimum pay is higher than Shenzhen, Shenzhen's minimum is higher than Chengdu......result : people like Foxconn is setting up inland and uproot production from their old place

If our garmen can attract Foxconn-style companies to SG, I'm sure they will go ahead... but at what cost?
Companies can relocate to any countries with cheaper labour... there's no guarantee that they will stay put in one.
So in order to entice these companies from relocating to other countries... we bring in those cheaper labour.
Sure, it helps our GDP figures... shows our good employment rate... but at what cost?

the same for singaporean companies to relocate out

[corneyAmber]

pixiedust:

ksi:

... Only those employers who are getting the benefit for hiring fw should not be griping and making so much noise. Those who are ranting about fw creating competition must be mainly employees who are struggling to make ends meet with high cost living and yet face competition from the cheaper labour..

Agree. However, the noise is drowning the other side of the story.

Hence it is good to hear of real incidents as shared by Funz. I think in cyberworld, this is the 1st time I actually read about anyone speaking up for the FT issue. The noteable fact is also in Funz's quote, the Singapore restaurant manager's job was also lost. This is the side impact explained by our government and many do not believe or hear.

There are many voters not directly impacted by either camp so we need a balanced view to make a decision.

I draw a difference between FT and FW. I think you are referring to FW. FT is to solve the lack of talent issue and FW is to solve the lack of cheap labour issue. We need to be clear which is which. From my earlier questioning, Busymom replied she saw FW as the issue Singaporeans are griping about, now I read from insider's post, she thinks FT is what Singaporeans are griping about. So maybe both are issues.

Funz' remarks are pointing mainly to FW. issues. With regards to FW issues, the reality is employers will favour the influx of FW due to better profit margin whereas the employees will not as it poses stiff competition. For me, I think Singaporeans other than ranting and griping about the competition, perhaps should also look to increase their value to the employer in order to gain the $500 premium starting pay against the FW. If just using the pink IC to fight the case of extra $500, both the government and the employers will not bite. We have been brought up in a meritocracy environment, citizens will not get perks directly in work competition but perhaps in other ways like in education, healthcare etc... Yes it is tough but this is the landscape in Singapore as an economic hub where everyone is pursuing results and profits. Having said this, there might be isolated cases where some people have experienced unfair treatment in education and healthcare...hence the pain of competition kicks in higher. On the whole, I find the problem definition is not very clear or supported by enough well-studied facts. All I know is when there is alot of noise coming from a group of people about FW, it pays to listen first, that is what the leadership has to do.

As for the FT issue, it's ironic to me that we have a widely-touted world-class education but we never produce enough talent and we are not talking about very specialised talent like building earthquake-proof architects or travel-to-the-moon astronauts etc.. we are talking about management staff, supposedly generalists. Most FTs mgt I know just so-called speak better and influence better but the locals mgt just work better.....thanks to our education? :laugh:

Finally if you ask me how a mini Singapore can compete in the global scene successfully...we need both types of giants in our people, both mental and physical. Size does matter, brain and body. Hopefully we can build a nation of people of average height 1.8m tall(for men) and 1.7m (for women) and a brain which can communicate and execute equally well.

And meanwhile to achieve that? It is burning a hole in the parents' pockets!!!!!