Petition to Review the Singapore Education System
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Nope, I am not from the government. Im a private tutor, a student, and the owner of a newly set-up company which is funded by my life-savings of ang-baos and tuition money.
Suggestion 1: Review bell curve - Okay, Im think they will review but from what I know, MOE reviews all syllabus and systems every 7 years.
Suggestion 2: Have small classes - Dream of MOE, principals & teachers. Possible? Currently no. Many schools continue to face a lack of manpower even when trying to keep classes under the recommended 30 students per class. In fact, a large money of schools have to depend on teachers on short-term "flexi" contract to fill the slots. How?
Suggestion 3: Mixed Ability Teaching - Sounds great! What is it? How is it different from holistic education?
All in all, I was brought up to be independent and responsible for my own life what we believed in. Rather than point fingers and push the work, why not put a little more effort into something that you believe so strongly in? Right now, you are trying to convince the education ministry that they are in the wrong and changes are needed. Definiately something concrete and strong will be needed before your pleads would be taken seriously and taken upon immediately.
If anyone were to pass a comment that pyschology is a waste of time because we cannot fully comprehen the human mind, and expect psychologists to "change" - would you? -
meinteel:
All in all, I was brought up to be independent and responsible for my own life what we believed in. Rather than point fingers and push the work, why not put a little more effort into something that you believe so strongly in?
Hmmm.. so you will help? You will do up the 2nd document and get the signatures, and give to Minister? I have put in effort already eh? It took me one month to develop and write the petition. I have contributed. I have also been busy trying to get in touch with various politicians.
Aside from pointing out obvious constraints, lecturing parents about how they should parent and asking obvious questions aimed at naysaying sincere suggestions, have you already contributed in the small way I already have? I am still waiting for some well thought through suggestions from you.
If I am not willing to contribute more beyond what I already have, I am not independent and responsible? That I don't want to take on the role of an MOE govt official makes me dependent and irresponsible? How come you by that conclusion? I used to have a secretary. She has her job to do. If it is in her job scope and it is not done, I explain the need, and she does it. I don't do her job for her.
If you feel strongly enough to want to do the 2nd document. Then you do it eh? Ride on this thread to publicise your document. I will help you with my 2 cents of opinion.
Seriously, IMHO. the 2nd document needs an in-depth study. The Ministry must want it done. I have done such documents before and I think I cannot do it unless I have access to information and data and interviews that one cannot access unless the Ministry endorses the review. For the Ministry to want it done, they must recognise there is something wrong.That is the purpose of the petition. It is not targetted to appeal to the govt. It is meant to speak the pain of parents. And this pain communicates the need for a review. The 2nd document is beyond what my resources can handle. We need the Ministry to want this study done.
But if you think you can, and do it voluntarily using your own resources and wisdom, and put it up for public endorsement, then you will be helping the community in a big way. I started this. You can carry it on. Because I won't, unless the MOE asks... because I don't BELIEVE in the 2nd document at present. You however do believe in this 2nd document. So you be responsible and independent, and do it, instead of pointing the finger at me.
Come now. Contribute your own suggestions in this thread or do up the 2nd document you believe in. -
1. You dont have to create a ministrial level standard for the 2nd document.
2. I don’t see any better system to replace PSLE & streaming students into secondary school.
3. I support your action for having smaller classes, as would many others including teachers but where are we going to get the teachers?
Like you, I can easily list out all the inherent problems of the government and Singapore. However, I cannot find a better solution then that the government has to offer. Therefore I do not go about critising them for what they have done.
The only reason why I suggested a 2nd document be created is because you asked if you should refomulate the petition. If you think that I’m just trying to pour cold-water on you, then by all means ignore my posts. I am just giving you my sincere opinions on how you can gather greater support and motion.
However if you are kind enough to explain to me what you meant by mixed ability teaching or suggest how to skew the bell curve differently, I do not mind creating a second document in favor of your petition. I can also help you contact various MPs whom I am very sure will read and work on it. -
meinteel:
You are not offering any new critique here that you have not already offered. Clearly, your vision differs from mine.1. You dont have to create a ministrial level standard for the 2nd document.
2. I don't see any better system to replace PSLE & streaming students into secondary school.
3. I support your action for having smaller classes, as would many others including teachers but where are we going to get the teachers?
(1) My petition is a hand reaching out for help, and you envisage it to be a hand giving help. If we were all self-sufficient, independent and completely at ease to do everything we wished, there would be no need for a govt. Why have a govt that I have to help at every turn?
(2) My vision of Document 2 is a document supported by data. Yours is a document with simple suggestions and off-the-cuff opinions about merits and demerits.
(3) Your vision of engaging the govt is that I should make my case appealing to the govt. I differ here again. I speak the pain of a group of parents and children. This may not be appealing but it is true. Why should I sell my ideas to the govt? If the govt is against change, then I know what to do at the next elections. We are in pain. You want us to market our pain in an appealing manner? I don't see the need to do that.meinteel:
I am not just listing out inherent problems, I did give 3 suggestions.Like you, I can easily list out all the inherent problems of the government and Singapore.
meinteel:
I did not ask you if I should reformulate the petition. Out of respect for signatories, the petition cannot be changed from the moment a first person signs. I asked you to clarify what you meant by helping me to reformulate. Reformulate what? Make the petition better? Reformulate my ideas? Sorry... no go. I believe in my petition and my suggestions still. Reformulate Document 2, but why reformulate? Document 2 has not yet been formulated.The only reason why I suggested a 2nd document be created is because you asked if you should refomulate the petition.
meinteel:
And now we know that you have no other suggestions to help our children.. So, is your purpose to convince us that nothing can be done, and that come what may, our children should continue to suffer, and parents to watch in silence? And that we should have blind faith that if this govt can't help it then no one can? And therefore, don't speak up at all so as not be seen as critical?However, I cannot find a better solution then that the government has to offer. Therefore I do not go about critising them for what they have done.
The petition is not critical of the government. Don't be so sensitive. I am actually so pro-PAP that I get flamed online for my political convictions (which I begin to fear are wrong). This petition is a cry for help. To be helpful to the govt, I wanted to go a little bit further and thought through the root problems and their suggestions, only to have you say that some are unworkable because we cannot find teachers... and others cannot be understood. And now you suggest an even MORE helpful Document 2? I really do think I have contributed enough, as is.
Who are you that I should spend time try to convince you, patiently explain to you and work with you to draft a Document 2 that is better but not good enough for a Minister? If the MOE wishes, KSP parents have offered to be part of focus groups. If you are a govt official able to provide access to data, resources and info, then I see utility in spending time working together to produce a Document 2 to the standard that I envisage. If not, then I think I will stick with my petition, imperfect though it may be. I don't believe in spending time to do something better but not quite good enough.meinteel:
No dear... I don't need you to HELP me do a 2nd document. I am happy with my petition as it is. It is you who are not. If you do the 2nd document, do it to help further your own convictions, if you agree that our children are suffering. If you don't think children are suffering, then I waste time in this discussion because we will never agree. My son suffers, and so do the children of many parents. See comments here - http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?SgEd2011&1.I do not mind creating a second document in favor of your petition. I can also help you contact various MPs whom I am very sure will read and work on it.
I too have access to MPs. Some I have known for years.meinteel:
It is not to be unkind, but I have no wish to explain again what I have ALREADY explained. You need to read. Or if you have read, you need to understand and absorb. It is possible that to fully understand, a face to face meeting is required. That I will do only if you are MOE.However if you are kind enough to explain to me what you meant by mixed ability teaching or suggest how to skew the bell curve differently...
In every way, the ideas in Document 2 should be original and your own, like my petition was original and my own. I do not need you to be my scribe because I can express myself. Document 2 is yours to own, and should reflect your own ideas and beliefs. Another petition indepednent of me and driven by you can only be good for the community. Unless of course, it is a petition against change. -
Since you put it in this way, let us just assume that my english language is way below standard. Therefore I am unable to comprehen your complex petition which consists of detailed and carefully planned suggestions to relief the young of Singapore.
All in all, I still believe that your motivation comes from good faith and thus I wish you and all others who signed the mentioned petition well wishes. May your petition help to spark change our education system so that our future leaders will not have to suffer in silence in our present days. -
meinteel:
All in all, I still believe that your motivation comes from good faith and thus I wish you and all others who signed the mentioned petition well wishes. May your petition help to spark change our education system so that our future leaders will not have to suffer in silence in our present days.
The motivation does come from good faith. There is no intent to topple the government and every intent to engage. I have no political desires either. I am not one of those who abuse and curse our govt from a wellspring of deep negative emotion. If the govt wishes to engage the citizens then this petition is a good platform because I and many KSP-ers do not hate the govt. I want to support my govt, but our children need help, and we have to speak up.
I hope to give sincere feedback, and wish to engage the govt in civic dialogue... and thus help my grandchildren. For my son it is too late, but if we pay the price, he can cope. I do that because I envisage Singapore as home for me, my children and my grandchildren. It would have been easier to migrate. It would have been easier to shut up, help my son make through the top schools, get into an overseas university and bail. In a few years, when the children are grown, we can all leave Singapore. For the sake of the grandchildren, we are prepared to move (the govt mustn't underestimate parents' love for their kids)... but why give up like that?
Singapore is home. We owe it to the govt to engage it in respectful dialogue and build a Singapore we all like and want to live in.
I don't think your English is poor. You write perfectly well and I am sure you are perfectly conversant in English. Our personal biases lead to an inability to accept some ideas for what they are. You thought I was attacking the govt. I was not. Your blockage was a psychological one, not a linguistic one. -
I have not read through the lengthy forum discussion, just did a scan, so do pardon me if my views echo some that were already being posted.
Personally, I feel that the highly competitive and stressful education system in Singapore is the result of parents’ kiasu attitude and MOE or the exam board is just reacting to this kiasuism by setting the standard higher and higher. It’s a chicken and egg issue. Allow me to explain…
Most of us who went through the education system in the 1980s would agree that the system was less stressful and the subjects taught were not as tough. Why was that so? I believe it’s because parents then were not so actively involved in their kids education. They were also more willing to allow their kids to learn at their pace. Getting a B or C was acceptable, as long as no red marks can already. Parents sent kids to tuition only because they were failing the subjects. But now, most parents wouldn’t hear of their kids scoring anything below an A, once you are 1 mark below a band 1, off to tuition you go. Parents are sending kids for tuition cos they are scoring a mere B/C. A is the pass for most parents now.
With more kids going tuition and learning more than what is being taught in sch, the exam board has to set harder questions to ‘normalised’ the bell curve. Bell curve is NOT the problem in our education system. It is a necessary tool. Imagine if 80% of the cohort scored A* and assuming they continue to do well, you would get so many university graduates that the degree will become valueless. End up, we will have degree holders doing menial jobs. We don’t want that to happen.
If ALL parents can allow their kids to learn at their own pace (like what the older generation parents did) and not push their kids to keep up with the Jones (there are the smart ones who do learn faster), the whole learning environment will be less competitive. If parents can accept the Bs and Cs in their kids’ report cards and not constantly pushing them to attain the As, the kids will have a childhood.
Unfortunately, more and more parents WANT and DEMAND their kids to get those As, regardless if the kids are able to or not. And sadly, it is proven that if kids spend more time studying and mugging, they are able to get the As, even if it is at the expense of their childhood. Then when exams get harder and harder, parents start to blame the system. I’ve heard so many parents lament, "No choice. The system is like that." Seriously, whose fault is it to begin with. We are part of the system, we can change the system.
Imagine, if now, all parents were to stop sending their kids for tuition or whatever head-start programmes, and just allow kids to learn from sch and at their own pace, accepting that the real smart kids deserve their place at the top, accepting that our kids may not be one of the smart kids, the whole PSLE would cease to be a runaway train as described in the earlier posts. -
Reducing class size is really not possible cos MOE provides a public education which is very different from a private one. 90% of Singaporean kids study in public schs, to reduce class size, MOE will have to employ many many many more teachers. Now, education is highly subsidised by the govt. It's very high cost running a sch. I remember the operation manager from my previous sch (I was an ex MOE teacher) mentioned once that the monthly electrical bill was more than $30,000 a mth and that did not include water bills and other miscellaneous. As it is, Singapore teachers are already one of the highest paid compared to teachers from other countries.
Streaming has its benefits. I have friends whose kids are slower learners and they appreciate that they are put in a class where the teacher can go slower and their kids can learn with peers of similar stds. Before streaming, they had to suffer the insults from faster kids who felt that they had slow down the class' progress.
I still think that the bell curve, class size, streaming are not the main problems in our education system. It is really the mindset, attitude and expectation of parents.
One thing I feel MOE CAN change is the syllabus. There's no need to study so many topics in elementary level. If syllabus can cut down, then more time can be spent on instilling moral values, aesthetics, sports and character building.
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Lock:
this unfairly penalises kids who don't go for tuition (for whatever reasons). If a student deserves an A*, he should get one and not be denied one because the bell curve has to be normalised. and why should a kid be denied a chance to go to university just because we want uni grads to be a rarer breed?With more kids going tuition and learning more than what is being taught in sch, the exam board has to set harder questions to 'normalised' the bell curve. Bell curve is NOT the problem in our education system. It is a necessary tool. Imagine if 80% of the cohort scored A* and assuming they continue to do well, you would get so many university graduates that the degree will become valueless. End up, we will have degree holders doing menial jobs. We don't want that to happen.
i'm one of those parents who resist sending my kids for tuition. i teach them as much as i am able to. whatever is beyond me, i ask them to ask their teacher, search the internet, look for answers in books, etc.
The sad thing is, i'm not an \"uneducated\" parent. it's just that the syllabus is :siao:. i've never learnt some of the stuff before.
our educational system needs a radical change. -
Hi Chenoneau,
I have been following the thread (not 100% tho) and have not had the courage to comment......until now as I finally found a similar voice in Lock :oops: ......
Despite having followed your petition since the start, I have not been able to 'SUPPORT' it cos' somehow deep in my heart, I feel that the system has evolved to this extend largely because of the demand from parents. All of us WANT our child to succeed, to do well, to be at the top whenever possible. Maybe not all, but many (and a big enough percentage) start being kiasu and push our child. Perhaps some of us will argue that the child is not doing well, so we need tuition, more pushing, more coaching etc...a lot of times it's because we can't accept Bs & Cs or Band 2/3. (but let's be fair, if the child is borderline/failing, pls get tuition) and that 'urge' to not fall behind others.
Sadly, even I fall into this category despite not the very kiasu type
That's why even tho my kids are already in the top classes, I have started tuition by P4 & P5 just so that they are stretched sufficiently, won't lose out, continue to maintain and of course, score in PSLE. I'm sure my kids can pass the school syllabus, but yet I did it 
:frustrated: .....so things will not change until I change my kiasu mindset :sick:
One thing I do support tho is to have a smaller teacher-student ratio as well as a more rounded education and not just focusing on academics. How workable is this, I really dunno. A lot of changes are required, not just the education system, but more importantly, our mindset........
Having said the above, I do appreciate your effort, sharing and the willingness to do something for the children It's not an easy task.
Think coward-me will :siam: a bit after this
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