Petition to Review the Singapore Education System

[coast]

Chenonceau:

coast:

To me, some parents will always send their kids to enrichment/tuition no matter what is the system. What is important is schools and teachers have to teach ALL students what is examinable in PSLE. This would mean a bright child who is self-motivated has no issues getting into top 10% of the cohort on his own while other kids would also have a chance to make it as they would realise what they know (or don't) in schools. So we need to understand the issues on why certain schools do not practise that and how MOE can help on this (teachers overload due to other tasks? syllabus too difficult to teach? lack of good resources/materials for the teachers? ...). I strongly believe that we have lots of good teachers out there who care about the kids under their guidance.

:goodpost: Referring to \"resources/materials\"... Not surprising leh... since the really good resource writers can sell their books for $40/= a pop if they LEAVE MOE and start their own thing.

Seriously, compare your official Math textbook with Onsponge... and then with your child's P5 SA1 paper and you will see that Onsponge is much better written and more in line with the exam paper. \"Some schools use Onsponge as the textbook\" said my son's Math Teacher.

Next, compare any of the school-based materials given on Model Drawing (whether to parents during workshops or to children in the form of textbooks and supplementary materials) with Math Heuristics' Model Approach to Problem-Solving: Stack and Split to Solve Challenging Problems Fast, and it is clear that Math Heuristics' $40/= book covers model drawing far more comprehensively and coherently in a SINGLE book than any school-based resource my son has received.

Hi Chenonceau,

From what I know, current school teachers can also publish assessment books and sell So they do not have to leave MOE to do that.

Thanks for sharing about the good materials, my ds is too young for me to need these books now but many parents who are reading this should find it useful for their older kids. I would think it is a simple issue if it is just a matter of asking schools to use these materials (whether as reference or assessments). Besides, I think many HODs and teachers would have been aware of these materials. No matter what, schools are still concerned about their PSLE performance. Schools are already using external materials and have outsourced certain enrichments (during regular school hours) such as speech & drama, certain PE niche areas to external parties ... so why are they not using these good materials? It is unlikely to be a cost issue for the schools and likely to be taken in conjunction with the other issues (teachers overload, too difficult to teach the entire class, ... etc)

[Chenonceau]

coast:

I would think it is a simple issue if it is just a matter of asking schools to use these materials (whether as reference or assessments). Besides, I think many HODs and teachers would have been aware of these materials. No matter what, schools are still concerned about their PSLE performance. Schools are already using external materials and have outsourced certain enrichments (during regular school hours) such as speech & drama, certain PE niche areas to external parties ... so why are they not using these good materials? It is unlikely to be a cost issue for the schools and likely to be taken in conjunction with the other issues (teachers overload, too difficult to teach the entire class, ... etc)

Maybe parents will scream if their booklist contained books at $40/= per pop. And I'm not sure but in most schools, the official textbooks are compulsory, so these $40/= books would be on top of the compulsory book list? If that happens, MOE cannot even pretend that education is inexpensive.

[Chenonceau]

coast:

As mentioned in my earlier post, I personally do not think ranking against peers is the key factor of not having a level playing field ... I am focusing more on how widespread is the practice of schools/ teachers NOT teaching what is examinable in PSLE ... and by teaching ... I do not mean rushing through the syllabus (with the school assumption that most students have been taught by parents or enrichment/tuition) but in an acceptable pace. Proper teaching will make it a level playing field for ALL students.


Even though it is not an important issue, for the benefits of the parents and kids especially those going to take PSLE soon, I still hope someone would be able to point us to an official confirmation about how PSLE subjects are graded ... be it a straightforward mark range or based on some formula depending on how well the cohort did.

[coast]

2ppaamm:

Coast, if you refer to MOE's page http://www.facebook.com/notes/ministry-of-education-singapore/measures-in-place-in-exam-and-admissions-systems-to-reduce-pressure-on-students-/10150302450237004, the subject grades are not transformed. So if a child gets 91, he will still get his A* even if the whole of the cohort scores above 91. This is like the 'O' levels, everyone gets A1 for scoring >75.


The T-score, on the other hand, is a transformed score. Unless they have already changed the system, what I knew it to be was:

((Your marks - mean of cohort)/standard deviation)*10 +50.

If you examine this carefully, this is the same as the normal distribution's calcuation of 'z', which is (x-mean)/s.d. Meaning, the PSLE students are put exactly on the bell curve. Know a little more about this normal distribution here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution

So, a child who is exactly average, will be contributing exactly 50 to his T-score for each of his subject, making the T-score of 200 always the average T-score in any year, no matter how capable he is, his score is derived from this distribution, and against the cohort. Hence, technically, there is no max to T-score, and no min.

It also means that it is hard to tell what T-score is for top 10%, because it depends on the standard deviation that year. Typically, 68% of our students fall within one standard deviation from the mean of 200 (can be higher or lower). And, the top 10% should be about 1.5 standard deviations higher than 200. So if the standard deviation is high that year, your top 10% will have a lower T-score, if the s.d. is low, the top 10% (or cutoff for 3rd language) should be relative higher.

Unless the ministry has changed this, in which parents like us are not informed, or if there are moderations done, in which they are not revealed. Then I tend to agree with Chen that we are put on a bell curve.

Now if MOE says that T-score is not a bell curve, then they should really tell us what distribution they are using, or how this T-score is calculated (the calculation above was given to me 5 years ago by my son's school principal). Why should this be a secret? Or maybe it will take many man years to derive the forumula?

Sorry I'm a bit technical here. Just trying to put across a point. Also, don't ask me the technicalities of this statistical studies, I'm just doing this quickly. If I make a mistake in my calculation/formula, let me know. But largely, I know I should be right.

Hi 2ppaamm,

Thanks for sharing!

I look at the MOE reply link you provided:-

\"We wish to clarify that the PSLE is not graded on a bell curve. PSLE results are reported in two ways – subject grade and aggregate score. Subject grades are not determined based on a fixed quota of pupils for each grade. There are also no fixed cut-off scores based on a bell-curve distribution. If in a particular year, more children do well, the proportion of higher grades (say, A* and A) would be higher. From year to year, such fluctuations do occur.\"

Please note that the above MOE reply does not confirm that \"So if a child gets 91, he will still get his A* even if the whole of the cohort scores above 91.\". My earlier assumption (in PSLE 20XX, 91 might not get you an A* depending on how well the cohort does) does not contradict with the above reply.

The next part of MOE reply:-

\"In order to add up the marks scored in each of the 4 subjects into a total aggregate score, the Singapore Examinations and Assessments Board (SEAB) uses a device called the transformed score (T-score). This is a device statisticians use to add up scores from different subjects in one examination. The transformation aims to account for the different characteristics of different subjects. The transformation process preserves the rank order of students. The child with the higher marks ranks above another with lower marks.\"

What are \"transformed\" scores without going into technicality? My understanding (you can google PSLE t-score and find some nice powerpoints in some primary school websites) ... it is to rank against your peers

I understand the rationale of ranking against peers and do NOT think it is a key factor of education not being a level playing field. But I agree with you that parents should know how subjects are graded and what are \"transformed\" scores. I think they have done a good job about \"transformed\" scores (by looking at the powerpoint slides) but it could certainly be much clearer if they give more actual data/ examples of PSLE subject grades and the corresponding transformed T-scores.

[coast]

Chenonceau:

coast:

I would think it is a simple issue if it is just a matter of asking schools to use these materials (whether as reference or assessments). Besides, I think many HODs and teachers would have been aware of these materials. No matter what, schools are still concerned about their PSLE performance. Schools are already using external materials and have outsourced certain enrichments (during regular school hours) such as speech & drama, certain PE niche areas to external parties ... so why are they not using these good materials? It is unlikely to be a cost issue for the schools and likely to be taken in conjunction with the other issues (teachers overload, too difficult to teach the entire class, ... etc)

Maybe parents will scream if their booklist contained books at $40/= per pop. And I'm not sure but in most schools, the official textbooks are compulsory, so these $40/= books would be on top of the compulsory book list? If that happens, MOE cannot even pretend that education is inexpensive.

Hi Chenonceau,

I have not seen these textbooks so my comments below might not really be useful. But I was not thinking of asking parents to pay \"$40\" per pop.

1) Schools order in bulk - subsidised rates
2) Could be used as teaching reference to supplement the official textbooks
3) Schools do have funds and can decide how to use some of these funds ... if they care about PSLE results (I think it's a key KPI esp for principals and HODs) ... the costs here should not be an issue.

[Chenonceau]

coast:

Hi Chenonceau,


I have not seen these textbooks so my comments below might not really be useful. But I was not thinking of asking parents to pay \"$40\" per pop.

1) Schools order in bulk - subsidised rates
2) Could be used as teaching reference to supplement the official textbooks
3) Schools do have funds and can decide how to use some of these funds ... if they care about PSLE results (I think it's a key KPI esp for principals and HODs) ... the costs here should not be an issue.

This is a good idea for MOE I think. Though I don't quite think that using them as a teaching resource is enough. I think materials kids have as part of mainstream core set should contain the knowledge capital too. The books I bought were at $40/= a book. Maybe they'll give a discount, but how much?

Kids' textbooks should contain all they need to do well. If you leave it to teachers to teach, and kid is absent... how to catch up. What if teachers have no time to teach? How to self-study?

[coast]

Here's something for any interested parents to ponder:-


A parent wrote to the media about \"Why good grades but low PSLE aggregate\"

http://www.asiaone.com/News/Education/Story/A1Story20081211-106943.html

In summary, her son scored 3 A* (Eng, Maths, Sci) and 1 A (Chi) ... T-score 244 ... lower T-score than those of his peers with 3A and 1B.

Here's SEAB's reply:-

http://www.seab.gov.sg/publicCommunications/mediaReplies/Editor_of_MyPaper_20081216.pdf

[Chenonceau]

coast:

Here's something for any interested parents to ponder:-


A parent wrote to the media about \"Why good grades but low PSLE aggregate\"

http://www.asiaone.com/News/Education/Story/A1Story20081211-106943.html

In summary, her son scored 3 A* (Eng, Maths, Sci) and 1 A (Chi) ... T-score 244 ... lower T-score than those of his peers with 3A and 1B.

Here's SEAB's reply:-

http://www.seab.gov.sg/publicCommunications/mediaReplies/Editor_of_MyPaper_20081216.pdf

Coast, can you share your ponderings of this... I am a bit blur now.

[coast]

Chenonceau:

coast:

Hi Chenonceau,


I have not seen these textbooks so my comments below might not really be useful. But I was not thinking of asking parents to pay \"$40\" per pop.

1) Schools order in bulk - subsidised rates
2) Could be used as teaching reference to supplement the official textbooks
3) Schools do have funds and can decide how to use some of these funds ... if they care about PSLE results (I think it's a key KPI esp for principals and HODs) ... the costs here should not be an issue.

This is a good idea for MOE I think. Though I don't quite think that using them as a teaching resource is enough. I think materials kids have as part of mainstream core set should contain the knowledge capital too. The books I bought were at $40/= a book. Maybe they'll give a discount, but how much?

Kids' textbooks should contain all they need to do well. If you leave it to teachers to teach, and kid is absent... how to catch up. What if teachers have no time to teach? How to self-study?

Hi Chenonceau,

Good point about teaching resource. What I was thinking ... teachers \"absorbing\" the methods and teaching to the kids with own worksheets, ... etc. So that's why I think they are not using the materials not because of $$$ but other issues such as teachers overloaded ... too difficult/ time consuming to teach kids under current policy (teach less learn more) ... but this could perhaps be done by getting some subject specialists to do this for ALL schools (i.e., part of the official curriculum).

[verykiasu2010]

coast:

Hi Chenonceau,

Good point about teaching resource. What I was thinking ... teachers \"absorbing\" the methods and teaching to the kids with own worksheets, ... etc. So that's why I think they are not using the materials not because of $$$ but other issues such as teachers overloaded ... too difficult/ time consuming to teach kids under current policy (teach less learn more) ... but this could perhaps be done by getting some subject specialists to do this for ALL schools (i.e., part of the official curriculum).

haha, you are almost there

that is why some schools have for each subject each level a level dean, subject/level driver, master teacher etc

it makes some of them high-achieving in terms of a larger proportion of the cohort doing better than their peers, and the school becomes popular etc etc