Petition to Review the Singapore Education System
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Chenonceau:
Chen, I'm not sure if MOE read this, but I did. I have similar concerns as well. I'm pretty sure quite a lot of money was poured into such research, but I do not know why they were never ever shared.2ppaamm:
Or it is to ask for changes in these areas only? Perhaps we can lobby for a committee or something of parents who form as a consultation/feedback panel for the ministry. That would be a good outcome too.
The petition is a match stick to light a discussion. Once it has achieved its purpose it should be reduced to nothingness. The discussion can and should range far and beyond the ideas in the petition. The ideas in the petition should also be scrutinised.
I dunno about consultation/feedback panel... I think Ministry should garner views from as many parents as possible. A panel is still limited in its input... especially if permanent (groupthink is still possible). Besides, who would wanna be in that panel? It's more work and time investment ya know.
MOE should use NVIVO software to analyze themes from this thread. It's a software that supports an analytical technique (called grounded theory - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grounded_theory) designed for textual data (as opposed to numbers data). MOE should conduct interviews with parents and surface themes and concerns using NVIVO too. MOE should talk to children.
There could be scope to run IQ tests amongst NORMAL STREAM children to see if we have many closet 120 IQ kids there. If there are many, then our system is wasting talent. There is scope to survey children in the top 2 classes and bottom 2 classes of every school, run \"structural equation models\" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structural_equation_modeling) using LISREL or AMOS... to ascertain the part to which their academic success is due to tutors, to IQ, to teachers etc...
From a Industrial Organizational Psychologist's view point, there are so many ways to collect data, run the numbers, crunch the text to determine the terrain. We need to know the terrain well before anything can be done. All I want is a review - a study. I do not doubt that our government has access to researchers and resources able and willing to do the work.
As a social scientist, views remain views unless backed by data. When you can argue as convincingly as I can, then you know that you had better be careful not to argue so convincingly that reality is distorted by clever arguments. There are ways and means to test the validity of views. We have THREE research universities, each with a social science department. We do have the expertise to test these views and make sure which is correct BEFORE we do anything. I think we should focus on gathering high quality data, and study it carefully before we proceed. The study should be done with the highest standards of scholarship to ensure impartiality and objectivity.
Without data, views remain views... and if the wrong views are implemented because someone was convincing, then a nation's children pays the price. I do think that the fellow who proposed to halve the Mother Tongue weightage forgot to gather data... he/she only argued convincingly.
Nope... I doubt a panel is sufficient to represent the terrain sufficiently well. There are some truths that need to first be established.
- Is it true that we have too many children of high IQ in normal stream?
- Is it true that without tutors, children cannot pass?
- Is it true that the greater predictor of academic success today is no longer child ability but access to tutors?
There are social science methods that can answer these questions, and they should be answered with the highest standards of research rigour because our children are important.
Ehhhh... I write all this goobledy gook in the hope that MOE reads hor... there are experts in MOE who understand goobledy gook. I hope!!
I also agree that there should be a feedback loop to the ministry from parents and students, and I'm quite sure this does not exist.
There are 3 research universities with social sciences, but only one that focuses on education. NTU/NIE. I believe most of the PhDs or researchers there are ex-MOE folks. There is at least one or two who specialize in special needs and giftedness. I do not know what they do specifically. I think they are more concerned with training and putting more teachers and allied educators in schools.
Isn't it funny, it is like a leaking cup that never fills. You keep filling it with teachers, and losing teachers to the tuition industry. Surely the ministry is interested to know why teachers would rather teach in the shadow education system? How should they be absorbed?
Too many questions and I agree that your petition is just a starting point. If it sparks a good platform for a serious conversation or even research support, I'd be happy to chip in.
Great job so far! -
I really hope that the outcome of this petition will lead to committee or discussion session with the MP and panel of MOE educator. I believe this will provide a sound feedback and sharing debates. If it is true, pls count me in.
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2ppaamm:
Chen, I'm not sure if MOE read this, but I did. I have similar concerns as well. I'm pretty sure quite a lot of money was poured into such research, but I do not know why they were never ever shared.Chenonceau:
[quote=\"2ppaamm\"]Or it is to ask for changes in these areas only? Perhaps we can lobby for a committee or something of parents who form as a consultation/feedback panel for the ministry. That would be a good outcome too.
I dunno about consultation/feedback panel... I think Ministry should garner views from as many parents as possible. A panel is still limited in its input... especially if permanent (groupthink is still possible). Besides, who would wanna be in that panel? It's more work and time investment ya know.
MOE should use NVIVO software to analyze themes from this thread. It's a software that supports an analytical technique (called grounded theory - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grounded_theory) designed for textual data (as opposed to numbers data). MOE should conduct interviews with parents and surface themes and concerns using NVIVO too. MOE should talk to children.
- Is it true that we have too many children of high IQ in normal stream?
- Is it true that without tutors, children cannot pass?
- Is it true that the greater predictor of academic success today is no longer child ability but access to tutors?
There are social science methods that can answer these questions, and they should be answered with the highest standards of research rigour because our children are important.
Ehhhh... I write all this goobledy gook in the hope that MOE reads hor... there are experts in MOE who understand goobledy gook. I hope!!
I also agree that there should be a feedback loop to the ministry from parents and students, and I'm quite sure this does not exist.
Great job so far![/quote]Hi Chenonceau & 2ppaamm,
Wonderful posts, thanks!
Regarding feedback to MOE, it is in today's ST \"Have views on education? Tell new minister\", refer link below.
http://www.straitstimes.com/GeneralElection/News/Story/STIStory_672443.html
Unfortunately there is no specific post in our new Education Minister facebook that is asking for feedback, but you can choose to \"comment\" under any of his posts. The following link seems to garner alot of feedback:-
http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/hengsweekeat/posts/205283626176837
From my quick look, there are some constructive suggestions and Mr Heng actually added his comments too, so it means he (or his administrator) is monitoring his facebook. I suppose there would be lots of comments going in since it's mentioned in Straits Times
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2ppaamm:
Hi 2ppaamm,I wanted to highlight something about the post I wrote about my son's old maths problem. The main concern was not whether our children can have different solutions, MOE already confirmed my son's SOLUTION (not answer) was correct. Rather, these were the main concerns:
1. That educators should worry more about their KPI's (not willing to change the marks even though MOE already confirmed the SOLUTION - not answer was correct). The principal did not want to change the records at MOE. Why? Do you realize the principal was scheduled for a promotion, and he knew that. So it was not the answer that was wrong, because he admitted to 2 other errors as well, two in my son's paper and one in the other boy's paper. Nothing was changed. There is something wrong with the way we measure our educators.
2. Educators do not respect parents' views, and no matter how educated or uneducated, they 'talk down' and assume we as parents must take all kinds of sh*t from them. Why? We are at the weaker bargaining position. Our children are in their hands. It was unfortunate they met someone like me, who was trying to show my son that right is right in principle. So they hated me for my guts and for writing to so many folks. They were all the more determined to prove me wrong.
3. That teachers can make mistakes in their marking, when they cannot understand the student's working, and for such a simple question, so many teachers missed it.
4. There is a power off-balance in our schools today. Teachers are like gods and they dictate. My son says that in schools, teachers are NEVER wrong, even if they are wrong, they will try to go around it rather than admit their mistakes. At home, we teach our children that adults are never always right, but they must be respected even when they are wrong. Schools have taught our children that we should always be right to be respected or successful. WRONG. We should teach our children to respect an older person even if they are wrong or not as intelligent.
It was fun having this discussion on the Math question anyway. But DS is already so big, and is already in his senior year in college. He will be off to his post grad next year. He had already forgotten that particular math question. I just happen to have it still in my database. Using this case to hopefully put across some points in the petition. There need to be a change in the way our teachers teach. Our kids are getting smarter. Heard of the Flynn effect? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect If they couldn't handle my son, how could they ever handle the future generation? Our education system has to change and educators have to learn to look at things differently. They need to teach and not assign the teaching to another institution or to the shadow education system.
I think the letter that MOE gave (from the previous post) mentioned that the \"solution\" your son gave was correct following which it asked you to clarify with the marker who said that the \"answer\" was wrong. I think its ambiguous at best whether MOE was referring to the final answer or the actual workings as it used both the word \"answer\" and \"solution\" in the same sentence. From a strictly literal standpoint, the statement from MOE has not clarified anything.
Anyway you're right in that its all the past through i found the solutions proposed by your son and his classmates to be rather interesting as an academic exercise.
As a member of the \"shadow education industry\" as you put it, i am deep in with the kids as they go through the education system and i always find it strange that parents attribute to MOE teachers more powers than they actually have! My fiancée (who's a JC teacher and no she has no time to give tuition) and some of my friends who are MOE teachers are literally knee deep in paperwork, assorted committees and CCA obligations, not to mention having to match rising education standards in the national exams, increased disciplinary issues and pressure from parents who expect them to be superheros. And i have not even gone into stress and expectations piled onto teachers by the HODs, Principals and of course the policy makers up in the ivory tower that is MOE. So to think that you believe teachers to be all powerful god-like beings who have a hand in determining your child's fate, you're dead wrong. Teachers have superiors to answer to who in turn have their own bosses (all the way to the minister himself). So teachers are essentially mute instruments by which the state educates a future workforce which will quietly toil away at ensuring a continued GDP expansionary policy. If you have quibbles with teachers, take it out on their superiors and not them. They are just following orders as issued from up above. With the pressure from parents, who expect the sky, and the the assorted stuff they face in school, well i'm not surprised that many burn out and leave after the bond.
Ah! The much debated Flynn effect. To give some background, i was selected to join the GEP test back in Pri 3 which placed me in the top 0.5% of the population (at that time, in 1993, the GEP took in only 180 to 200 pupils rather than the 400 plus now). Assorted tests including the UNSW International Maths and Science exams, American Maths Competition, SMO Maths Olympaid and SAT I & II just re-affirmed that i was within the 99th percentile of my cohort consistently. So to say i mixed with the best and brightest of my cohort would be an understatement. And here i am back teaching what is considered the best and brightest of Singapore's future. If the education system during my time could handle my GEP classmates (and what a handful we were), I would think the re-vamped education system with its emphasis on celebrating diversity of talents and cultivating varied interests would be so much more holistic in providing for the future generation's education needs. I really envy my students i am teaching!
Allow me to give my views on the current state of education. I think students nowadays are given a much more stimulating education environment as compared to my time. I would have loved to join NUS High if i had a chance (I was incredibly bored with the mundane stuff i was forced to learn in RI GEP). Too bad i went through what would be remembered now as they dying phase of the pre-IP education system. Its quite sad really. Also, if would remember the days when streaming was done for Primary 4 children and what a useless and harmful piece of policy that was (thankfully GEP students were exempt). Students nowadays face their first national exam when they are 12 and that favours the late bloomers who start shining in Pri 5. Quite an improvement i would think.
However, rather than observe a higher level of intelligence as expected from the Flynn effect, what i noticed is that children, with all the educational help they are getting (from schools, education centres, tutors, enrichment classes, books, education programmes etc), are much more well grounded in test taking techniques and sprouting random pieces of information. However what i did not notice in most students is the ability to critically analyse information (and they have so much at their fingertips!) and figure out how to apply them. Also, the tenacity at solving problems (whether in exams or life in general) and the ability to apply techniques and concepts to new conditions is generally lacking. Also, there seems to be a much higher parental expectations of their children. Sometimes it gets a bit extreme and i have heard and borne witness to enough cases to wonder sometimes whether the problems with the education system is caused by the education policies themselves or is it due to the rising expectations and increased demands of parents who expect every child to be in the GEP, Olympaid medalist etc.
But still, although the education system can and must be improved, i think we are heading in the right direction.
Overall quite an interesting conversation which threw up new perspectives and i thank you for your time.
Yours
Zhou Shicai
NickleBee Tutors -
Heyya Chenonceau, i meant additional constructive ideas when i asked if changes were
allowed for the petition webbie… and not change the petition in general. In any case, u
already answered my question which is that this thread stands as a reference to many
discussions and ideas thrown in by other parents as well that if this goes further; they
can be used to gather more data and dig into more research on a wider scale of
participants which can then in turn weigh enuf for them to look into the matter
more seriously. -
jenao:
Hi jenao,
Coast, your last para here really summarized the whole problem with our education system. Seriously, if a child cannot work on his own for his achievement, what are we teaching the kids? Will they be able to get tuition when they are in university, when they need someone to solve their work problem? THis also goes agst the fact that education levels the playing field. Clearly, if students are not taught what they shld be taught in school and really needed tuition to do well, MOE must seriously look at the whole system. It is no longer parents who are kiasu. MOE cannot even provide the basic necessity for the students to do well, never mind if they put in the hard work or not. THis is so different from out time when all we had to do was pay attention in school, do our homework diligently and revise well and ace the papers.coast:
The above is my personal understanding. To me, some parents will always send their kids to enrichment/tuition no matter what is the system. What is important is schools and teachers have to teach ALL students what is examinable in PSLE. This would mean a bright child who is self-motivated has no issues getting into top 10% of the cohort on his own while other kids would also have a chance to make it as they would realise what they know (or don't) in schools. So we need to understand the issues on why certain schools do not practise that and how MOE can help on this (teachers overload due to other tasks? syllabus too difficult to teach? lack of good resources/materials for the teachers? ...). I strongly believe that we have lots of good teachers out there who care about the kids under their guidance.
Having read 2ppaamm reply, MOE must also explain pt 2 and pt 5 of their reply. It is very confusing to say that they do not grade according to the bell curve when the t-score is based on the bell-curve. As long as the t-score is graded based on the bell curve, which is the all important score secondary schools look at, then PSLE score is based on bell-curve. There is no need to play with words and confuse everyone.
Our ex Education Minister Dr Ng said during election that when he took over the education portfolio in 2008, he spent time meeting parents, students and educationists for a grasp of what they wanted of the system.
Issues that were brought up included school stress, the need for tuition and the quality of teachers but, at the end of it all, they were most concerned about opportunities, he said.
For the entire article, please refer to following link:-
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=207445252611727
I also read with interest MP Baey Yam Keng's views on education (note that he has 3 kids aged 6, 7 and 10 so he would be in a very good position to understand our primary school education):-
Question) What do you sense are the top concerns of someone turning 40 in Singapore today
Mr Baey Yam Keng (age 40): That would be someone already with primary school kids. The concern would be, I suppose, the cost of raising children, having to invest a lot of money in tuition, so this group would feel quite squeezed. At the same time, they would have parents who would be elderly and need healthcare. And for themselves, they could be facing some mid-career crisis.
Question) Which of your convictions do you want to pass on to your child(ren), and how?
Mr Baey (three children, aged 6, 7 and 10): I think, for one, it is to take charge of one's life, to do the best in everything you do. Because my kids are still young, we impart this more through their studies and also as parents, we need to lead by example.
For the entire article, please refer to following link:-
http://www.todayonline.com/SingaporeVotes/EDC110503-0000418/5-questions-with--Mr-Baey-Yam-Keng-and-Mr-Goh-Meng-Seng
I am impressed by the values MP Baey wants to pass on to his children.
We can hope and wait for our new Education Minister to come out with some answers to the issues they already know:-
Parents having to invest a lot of money in tuition
School stress, the need for tuition and the quality of teachers
In the process, let's have our faith (especially with the data and feedback MOE will be gathering to tackle these known issues) that we will resolve our education problems listed here by many parents. Is it difficult? Our education worked with very few needing tuition in the past ... why shouldn't it work now? We have to be reasonable that there would still be alot of parents sending their kids for tuition ... but MOE needs to make sure our education is a level playing field so that a bright child who is self-motivated can make it to the top without tuition. -
buds:
I hope so... I hope so... I hope so...Heyya Chenonceau, i meant additional constructive ideas when i asked if changes were
allowed for the petition webbie.. and not change the petition in general. In any case, u
already answered my question which is that this thread stands as a reference to many
discussions and ideas thrown in by other parents as well that if this goes further; they
can be used to gather more data and dig into more research on a wider scale of
participants which can then in turn weigh enuf for them to look into the matter
more seriously.
Heh! Looks like baby keeping late nights huh? -
2ppaamm:
Pam... I can't tell what a comfort it is to have you here. I've felt so much lighter and more optimistic since you've appeared.If it sparks a good platform for a serious conversation or even research support, I'd be happy to chip in.
laughingcat:
Is it time to ASK to meet the Minister then? As kiasuparents we can come together and REQUEST a meeting. Bud-sies, would you put in a word with Chief? Or if Chief reads this, do let us know what you think of this and if you would mind leading a group of parents.I really hope that the outcome of this petition will lead to committee or discussion session with the MP and panel of MOE educator. I believe this will provide a sound feedback and sharing debates. If it is true, pls count me in.
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I support this!..anyone can start using facebook for this petition cos it’s easier to manage i guess.
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moomooko:
I support this!...anyone can start using facebook for this petition cos it's easier to manage i guess.
Do you mean like this? http://www.facebook.com/pages/Suggestions-for-the-Ministry-of-Education-and-the-Education-Minister/205948446110566?sk=wall
I just created this based upon your suggestion. Chen, if you want to administer the Facebook page, let me know. I think I can put you or anyone who is interested to be the admin.
You have to 'like' the page to post suggestions or grievances.
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