English - Quoting a Sentence in OE Comprehension
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Dear bookwormkids,chasingjelly,MathIsFun,ksi and ridcully,a very big thank you for all careful and detailed explanation.I find all the discussion really helpful.
From a very grateful mum. :grphug: -
From what I have been thought for PSLE preparation, I am definite that the only time the fullstop is inside the quotation marks is when you are quoting a full sentence (or 2 or more sentences). For words and phrases (or incomplete sentences), the fullstop should be outside the quotation marks.
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bookwormkids:
Hi bookwormkids :hi5: ,
Hi I can understand your agony and :frustrated:AgonyMum:
Very grateful for the responses from all parents and educators.However,after reading through all the mail,I realised that there is no concensus about this issue.I have looked through quite a number of assessment books and all their supposed \"model answers\" are somewhat different.
Is it possible to approach MOE for clarification?How do I go about doing this?Would really appreciate some advice.
Thanks!
I'd attended my P3 kid's parent workshop somewhere early in this year. This topic was covered under \"common errors\" made by students. See below:
1) Give a sentence
E.g.
Q) Which sentence in the passage tells you that John is happy?
A1 The sentence is \"He feels contented.\". (This is correct.)
or
A2 The sentence is \"He feels contented.\" tell us so. (This is correct too.)
> Copy word for word.
> Do not leave out any word or punctuation.
> Do not put a comma after \"is\".
For A1, The main sentence must end with a full-stop to complete it (as in A2) (Hope my layman term is clear. :oops: )
For your info, we were told by the HOD English that:
1. All sentence quoting, students have to use double quote, \"....\"
2. All phrases quoting, students have to use single quote, '....'
I really have to salute to all the kids having to remember all these!!! :yikes: :faint: :faint:
No need to go to MOE to clarify lah, just email to the HOD English for their marking scheme will do, just my humble opinion.
Hope my post doesn't offend any expert here...
Thanks for the sharing; i really benefit from reading your post! :celebrate:
:scratchhead: How are our kids gonna remember so much \"rules\" in EL? But I must :salute: your kids' school for giving a workshop on this area; guess I must \"highlight\" & \"feedback\" to my DD1's EL HOD too! :evil: -
Champion:
Hi bookwormkids :hi5: ,
Hi I can understand your agony and :frustrated:bookwormkids:
[quote=\"AgonyMum\"]Very grateful for the responses from all parents and educators.However,after reading through all the mail,I realised that there is no concensus about this issue.I have looked through quite a number of assessment books and all their supposed \"model answers\" are somewhat different.
Is it possible to approach MOE for clarification?How do I go about doing this?Would really appreciate some advice.
Thanks!
I'd attended my P3 kid's parent workshop somewhere early in this year. This topic was covered under \"common errors\" made by students. See below:
1) Give a sentence
E.g.
Q) Which sentence in the passage tells you that John is happy?
A1 The sentence is \"He feels contented.\". (This is correct.)
or
A2 The sentence is \"He feels contented.\" tell us so. (This is correct too.)
> Copy word for word.
> Do not leave out any word or punctuation.
> Do not put a comma after \"is\".
For A1, The main sentence must end with a full-stop to complete it (as in A2) (Hope my layman term is clear. :oops: )
For your info, we were told by the HOD English that:
1. All sentence quoting, students have to use double quote, \"....\"
2. All phrases quoting, students have to use single quote, '....'
I really have to salute to all the kids having to remember all these!!! :yikes: :faint: :faint:
No need to go to MOE to clarify lah, just email to the HOD English for their marking scheme will do, just my humble opinion.
Hope my post doesn't offend any expert here...
Thanks for the sharing; i really benefit from reading your post! :celebrate:
:scratchhead: How are our kids gonna remember so much \"rules\" in EL? But I must :salute: your kids' school for giving a workshop on this area; guess I must \"highlight\" & \"feedback\" to my DD1's EL HOD too! :evil:[/quote]From what I know, double quotes ( \"...\" ) is accepted for all words, phrases and sentence quoting. Probably safer to make it standard to avoid confusion. -
ksi:
Well said.Regarding clarifying with MOE, if every school teaches and marks differently, this would be a question beyond HOD as they cannot even standardize among themselves. To me, this is only a convention, it does not stop us from understanding the intent of the sentence so there is no real importance in terms of knowledge, the only real importance is how PSLE marks it to avoid the loss of points, that's all.
It should be remembered that:-
1. HOD appointment is a managerial appointment, not necessarily a subject-expertise appointment, isn't it?;
2. The English Language Syllabus for the PSLE states that students are required to \"write effectively in internationally acceptable English\". Thus, there is implied flexibility to follow British or American style punctuation. Also, there are differing interpretations, particularly within American style. The key is consistency;
3. Punctuation is often a matter of style, not prescriptive rule;
4. Related to 3., the Syllabus is not prescriptive at the micro-level but is more geared towards aims and objectives.
Readers can view the English Language Syllabus at:
http://www.moe.edu.sg/education/syllabuses/english-language-and-literature/files/english-primary-secondary-express-normal-academic.pdf
http://www.seab.gov.sg/psle/2011_PSLE_Subject_Info/0001_2011.pdf
There must be official guidelines issued to PSLE markers. However, I suspect that these are not made available in the public domain - rather like schools not handing back compositions from assessments. I draw my own conclusions, but will keep them to myself.
If anyone cares to approach MOE and obtain authoritative statement, please post it here for parents (and at least some teachers?) to see.
Anyway, this is my last posting on this particular matter.
Rgds
R -
ridcully:
I totally agree with you and all your sharing has been very useful so please do not stop posting. If you have not pointed out the difference, I would not have looked into my child's worksheets. For point 1, I have personal experience to realise so. We sometimes think the best expert is the best manager but not necessarily so. Careers usually have professional track versus managerial track. I plan to seek clarification with the school when it re-opens. If there are no PSLE parents writing to MOE, I may attempt to do so once I understand the school's point.
Well said.ksi:
Regarding clarifying with MOE, if every school teaches and marks differently, this would be a question beyond HOD as they cannot even standardize among themselves. To me, this is only a convention, it does not stop us from understanding the intent of the sentence so there is no real importance in terms of knowledge, the only real importance is how PSLE marks it to avoid the loss of points, that's all.
It should be remembered that:-
1. HOD appointment is a managerial appointment, not necessarily a subject-expertise appointment, isn't it?;
2. The English Language Syllabus for the PSLE states that students are required to \"write effectively in internationally acceptable English\". Thus, there is implied flexibility to follow British or American style punctuation. Also, there are differing interpretations, particularly within American style. The key is consistency;
3. Punctuation is often a matter of style, not prescriptive rule;
4. Related to 3., the Syllabus is not prescriptive at the micro-level but is more geared towards aims and objectives.
Readers can view the English Language Syllabus at:
http://www.seab.gov.sg/psle/2011_PSLE_Subject_Info/0001_2011.pdf
There must be official guidelines issued to PSLE markers. However, I suspect that these are not made available in the public domain - rather like schools not handing back compositions from assessments. I draw my own conclusions, but will keep them to myself.
If anyone cares to approach MOE and obtain authoritative statement, please post it here for parents (and at least some teachers?) to see.
Anyway, this is my last posting on this particular matter.
Rgds
R -
Writing from a different perspective. This problem of ambiguity will constantly nag students and parents. The problem is inherent in the subject itself. Languages, especially English, have rules that are more fluid than say Mathematics or Science. 1 + 1 will also give you 2, but in English the rules cannot apply so cleanly; especially in things like pronunciation and grammar.
If we apply a prescriptive approach to grammar when we teach students, it will help those who are weak in the language, ESL learners to pick up the language fast. However, if applied too strictly and for too long, the risk is that they will approach the language like a science and lose the ability to "play" with the language creatively. Take for example how some schools/centers force students to commit a whole list of "descriptive phrases" and "vocabulary" to memory and then have it regurgitated onto a composition. Is this really good writing? -
Hi, I happen to chance upon this thread and thought I’d give my two cents worth:
the examples provided by Bookwormkids are sound. It’s really not so much about memorising the rules as understanding the function of the punctuations.
A ‘sentence’ is an idea encased within a complete line thus beginning with a capital letter and a definite punctuation (?, ! or .). So, when quoting a sentence, we should include everything from the capital letter to the full-stop. However, the quote itself is set within another sentence thus there should be another full-stop after the quote.
I hope my explanation is useful in confirming what Bookwormkids has helpfully provided. -
The question ask "Quote the sentence that tell you that John is famished."
If u are the student and during the test, u are not sure whether to write
a) The sentence is "John ate like a pig.".
or
b) The sentence is "John ate like a pig."
then u should just write
The sentence "John ate like a pig." tells me that John is famished.
By the way, it has to be double quotes, not single quotes. -
ridcully:
(a) is weird but I know of some school teachers and even assessment books that advocate this.
Option a. is unacceptable. You do not repeat the same endmark.AgonyMum:
eg. Which sentence in paragragh 2 tells you that John is famished?
Should the answer be
a. The sentence is \"John ate like a pig.\".
b. The sentence is \"John ate like a pig\".
c. The sentence is \"John ate like a pig.\"
Option b. is correct. The full stop belongs to the whole sentence, not the quoted sentence contained within the bigger sentence.
Option c. is incorrect for the reason I state in Option b. However, it is the preferred form in American English, and increasingly Singaporeans seem to follow American English.
I always advise students that American English differs in many respects from British English, not simply in spelling.
Rgds
R
I beg to differ where (b) and (c) are concerned. A sentence by definition contains a full stop so when quoted, the full stop should be inside the closing quotation mark. http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-pun1.htm
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