Q&A - P2 English

[optimistforum]

Hello Ridcully


Thank you for responding to my post.

DS1 scored highly in his end of Year 3 (your P2) English and Maths exams. If you saw the exam papers, you would see how they lack substance. In fact the P1 to P6 syllabuses (science excepted) reflect what I was taught in the 70s and early 80s.

I choose MOE materials as they build and entrench solid foundations in Vocab and Grammar. You will not believe how much scant attention this is given in the UK. It comes as no surprise to me that the UK Education Secretary has announced that he is seeking to benchmark with many high-performing countries; Singapore being one. DS1 has been doing this for 3 years whilst DS2 has been doing this for one year.

In relation to the schools that you mention in the UK, they only provide one to 3 papers. Using Singaporean text books saves me time, as my children have to complete their school homework, as well as the more important Singaporean work. SATS education in the UK prepares children for the National Curriculum, and does not cover much substance. A more rounded traditional education in Eng and Maths is needed to prepare them for the selection exams to State Grammar Schools and the top-rated Independent Schools. My children normally chomp at the bit to study the Singaporean books.

I also use text books from India and Australia (New South Wales).

I am a former school governor in literacy and numeracy, at state secondary school, and so I am cognisant of not relying on the (lack of) rigour in the National Curriculum Eng and Maths content.

Back to my earlier posting, I will now use Nanyang materials.

[ridcully]

optimistforum:

It comes as no surprise to me that the UK Education Secretary has announced that he is seeking to benchmark with many high-performing countries; Singapore being one.

It shouldn't come as a surprise: All British Education Secretaries say that because it is politically expedient to be seen to do so, rather like complimenting motherhood or apple pie. I do not think, though, that the British Education Secretary is looking into the teaching of English in Singapore.

It is not easy to transplant the practice of one country to another. Singapore Maths for instance is having limited success in America for a variety of reasons: the culture does not accord a high status to mathematical prowess; the curriculum is packed with other subjects; there is not an army of private tutors.

Singapore, which has the reputation of going in for realities rather than expediency, is looking at the Scandinavian countries, especially Finland; the latter regularly trumps Singapore on a variety of educational dimensions.

optimistforum:

SATS education in the UK prepares children for the National Curriculum, and does not cover much substance.

I more or less agree, that is why I made the distinction between the state and the private sector in the UK. It is well known that there are serious deficits in the state sector, which is where the NC is mostly taught.

To be fair, however, the NC aims for breadth. UK primary schooling involves a much broader range of subjects than what many would consider to be a narrow focus in Singapore.

To cope with the 'rigorous' Singaporean curriculum, do not forget that the children have an army of private tutors. If the private tuition sector disappeared tomorrow, would many children cope?

optimistforum:

A more rounded traditional education in Eng and Maths is needed to prepare them for the selection exams to State Grammar Schools and the top-rated Independent Schools.

Yes, which is why one-in-nine primary children in the UK are taught in the private sector; some even to the extent of attending preparatory boarding schools.

optimistforum:

I also use text books from India and Australia (New South Wales).

I recommend you investigate Shanghai. At its first entry in Pisa tests, sat in 2009, it easily beat Singapore in reading, maths and scientific skills. Of course, it thrashed Britain, but then the top schools (which are private) in Britain don't bother to enter such international comparative tests.

optimistforum:

I am a former school governor in literacy and numeracy, at state secondary school, and so I am cognisant of not relying on the (lack of) rigour in the National Curriculum Eng and Maths content.

A parent governor, I presume?

Rgds
R

[optimistforum]

Hi Ridcully


Taking some of your points in turn.

I am English born, and my family are from India. We Anglo/Indians value education, highly - and so have something in common with Singaporeans.

A lot of the UK private sector schools also teach the NC; very few teach an independent curriculum as most follow the NC. Most are not are as good as people may think. DS1 spent one year at a top pre-prep, and we transferred when we found an outstanding state primary - though in retrospect, it is not as good as we were led to believe. So, my issue is with the (lack of) substance offered by the NC - as it will not prepare my DS 1 and 2 with a rigorous foundation in vocab, grammar and problem-solving maths.

I would prefer our NC to concentrate on Eng, Maths and Science as opposed to a broader range of subjects. It explains why our literacy and numeracy levels are low for 16 year olds - as the foundations are stretched in Primary on too many subjects. I think it is only a matter of a few years before we start sitting the more rigorous O’Levels and A’Levels that were sat, pre-1979. I did my O and Levels in 1982 annd 1984, respectively, and mine were comparatively easier - coinciding with the start of the much-vaunted grade inflation (which has shown annual passes in grades growing), and which is now in its 27th year.

My DS starts intensive tutoring with a highly rated sought after tutor, for a 2 year period. This tutor will prepare DS1 for entry to State Grammar and Independent Secondary. You see we are no different to you as we, too, share a prediliction for tutors!

The Singapore books appeal to me as they offer a practical solution to the challenges my children will face when competing against same-age cohorts from Independent Schools.

Shanghai does not appeal to me at this stage, as I neither have the time nor inclination to research it. Anyway, why go for a Ferrari Solution when a Mercedes will do the job!

I am not a parent-governor - does the type of governor have any significance to you!

I was a Community Governor representing the local council; not a parent one as I did/do not have a child at the school. It was a poor performing school (at GCSE-level), where we were able to make demonstrable improvements in English and Maths.

But, the penny dropped quickly enough for me to realise that I would not countenance sending my DS to such a bog-standard comprehensive.

In fact, it was the same secondary school that I attended as a senior; it served and still serves a middle-class and two socially disadavantaged (some would say mostly feral) catchments.

I was fortunate to go on to University and attain a Degree in Chemistry and an MBA, despite constant racist bullying towards me. Some things have not changed at this school. I would never put my DC through this.

Back to the point in hand, I am trying to develop my DC’s inquisitiveness and understanding in the primary years. If fully nutured it could augur well in their later life.

I am sorry to say that I am a middle-class, "sharp-elbowed", pushy-parent.

[ridcully]

Hi optimistforum

Thanks for that reply.

optimistforum:

We Anglo/Indians value education, highly - and so have something in common with Singaporeans.

Valuing education is a mute point. Most British people, and people around the world, value education highly. The issues are the nature of that education and at what cost financially and socially.

May I just expand on two points as Singaporean readers here may not be au fait with the British system, although many are very interested because of the university system in Britain:

optimistforum:

I think it is only a matter of a few years before we start sitting the more rigorous O'Levels and A'Levels that were sat, pre-1979. I did my O and Levels in 1982 annd 1984, respectively, and mine were comparatively easier - coinciding with the start of the much-vaunted grade inflation (which has shown annual passes in grades growing), and which is now in its 27th year.

The private sector in Britain is fully aware of the devaluation of traditional O Levels into GCSEs (especially coursework-assessed) and of terminal A Levels to modular ones (modular is where A levels are split up into individually assessed bite-sized modules rather than having one big assessment at the end of the course; students may retake the modules as many times as they like until the desired grade is achieved). Consequently, many private schools have switched to the IGCSE (the international version which is terminally assessed and is considered much more rigorous), and alternatives to A levels such as the Cambridge Pre-U.

optimistforum:

I am not a parent-governor - does the type of governor have any significance to you!

Yes, you were making an appeal to credentialism rather than on the individual merits of your points.

The joke in many a British staff room is that the only difference between a parent-governor and the tea-lady is that the tea-lady at least knows how to make a decent cuppa.

optimistforum:

I am sorry to say that I am a middle-class, \"sharp-elbowed\", pushy-parent.

As both a parent and a teacher, I prefer to role-model a sense of fair-play, compassion and consideration for others as well as academic rigour when teaching my and other parents' children.

Rgds
R

[optimistforum]

Hi R


I think this exchange, between us, is off-topic from this thread and I will reply via PM.

[poppy15]

can i ask, for P1 composition writing, are they asked to write in sentences or paragraphs?


are there any helping words or pictures provided?

now in K2, DS is asked to write 12 full sentences with the help of 12 different words and he's already stressed up. no picture to help.

eg: helping word is healthy.

can he write: I am healthy.

is this considered a full sentence?

eg: swim

can he write: my mummy brought me for a swim.

without emphasizing where, as in my mummy brought me for a swim at the swimming pool.

DS is very particular. he doesnt & wont write a sentence longer than the given line on the worksheet, even i when say its ok to write slightly below the line. :faint:

[ridcully]

optimistforum:

Hi R


I think this exchange, between us, is off-topic from this thread and I will reply via PM.

Off-topic is not a problem as long as no one complains...

Anyway, I have replied to you via PM.

Rgds
R

[BlurBee]

poppy15:

can i ask, for P1 composition writing, are they asked to write in sentences or paragraphs?


are there any helping words or pictures provided?

now in K2, DS is asked to write 12 full sentences with the help of 12 different words and he's already stressed up. no picture to help.

eg: helping word is healthy.

can he write: I am healthy.

is this considered a full sentence?

eg: swim

can he write: my mummy brought me for a swim.

without emphasizing where, as in my mummy brought me for a swim at the swimming pool.

DS is very particular. he doesnt & wont write a sentence longer than the given line on the worksheet, even i when say its ok to write slightly below the line. :faint:

Maybe different school has different teaching method. My DD was guided to write short sentences with helping words & pics. Then slowly by paragraphs.
I think ur above e.g are ok but later he'll need to elaborate.

JMO.

[smartmummy]

BlurBee:

Maybe different school has different teaching method. My DD was guided to write short sentences with helping words & pics. Then slowly by paragraphs.

I think ur above e.g are ok but later he'll need to elaborate.

JMO.

I agree with BlurBee.
Encourage more books to read.Can buy assessment books for writing sentences with helping words and pictures.Then arrange the number sequence of sentences then they know how to write in paragraph.

[janet88]

My daughter in P1 was taught to write simple compo in Term 2 using 2 pictures. She had to write in a paragraph. Since Parent-Teacher meeting in May, I've yet to spend time coaching her for compo :oops: it's been revising her weak areas for Math and grammar.

There are helping words.