Should maids be given a day off every week?

[SMH FOREST]

1amber:

The point of discuss in this thread is that quite a handful of us have no problem giving off days/time off to our maids but disagree with a blanket law mandating one day a week. We feel it should be left for mutual agreement between employer and maid.


But along this line, someone felt that it should be written down as policy to protect maids from abusive employers. But the point that many forum writers have pointed out here is that maids today aren't that blur and naive. They quote the opposite fact that maids are more conniving. Many of these employers recounted actual bad experiences. They have first hand experiences of being a lone parent having to juggle home, homework and work. If one has never been in their shoes (occasional doesn't count), how can one ever understand? Different families have different needs and stress points.

Quite a few in this thread are just calling for an updated view of today's maid/employer situation by giving actual accounts.

Let's not provoke by saying standards of employers have deteriorated, why can't they just give some time off, and other derogatory remarks. Doesn't mean that if you can handle something, then someone who cannot is a bad employer.

:goodpost:
Thanks for the perfect summary of what some of us are trying to highlight here!! :hi5:

[3Boys]

SMH FOREST:

I just wanted to repeat my point that people in service industry will never have a right to say to their employers that they dont want to work on wkends. This is the nature of their jobs. Can the hotels shut on wkends? Can banquets NOT BE allowed to be held on wkends so that people like hotel managers/banquet managers can have a day off to jaga their family and kids?? Can showflats be closed on wkends? So, people who wanna view showflats got to take leave on wkdays? Can restaurants/food courts close on wkends so that their staff or Chefs can stay home and let their maids rest on wkends? Let's not talk abt numbers/percentage... but these are people who are locals and have maids and genuinely cannot get off work on wkends.


I know what you described is a PERFECT world, and what I've been trying to say is that we live in a less than perfect world. There are thousands of others working in such jobs and hundreds who have maids. Do you then ignore their needs?

I really dread the usual PAP mandate of pushing out a policy based on a perfect world, and then let's talk abt exceptions later. If MOM rejects a valid exception case, what's gonna happen? Can the maid employer go tell their employers that they can't get help on wkends and thus cannot go to work?? Let's just be realistic here... it will inconvenience many where they have an actual need.

Again, we are not saying that we confine the maids or don't approve of off days. If they are responsible for what have been laid out as a contractual agreement for them to come to work, then stick to it. If the employer do not need them on wkends and can afford off days, then give it to the maids. The preferred solution for us is to leave it to employer and maid to decide. Not a blanket rule that will create issues for some of us who really need that extra help...

Hong Kong has an economy much like Singapore, with services and the like. Plenty of cooks and sales folk work weekends there too, and its been shown that they work longer hours than Singaporeans. Its not a perfect society either, but maids there get a mandatory 1 day off a week.

Again, we in Singapore are the outlier, the rest of the world manages quite well with a more progressive policy. You don't need perfect conditions to enable this to happen, just some thought, compromise and determination.

[corneyAmber]

3Boys:

Hong Kong has an economy much like Singapore, with services and the like. Plenty of cooks and sales folk work weekends there too, and its been shown that they work longer hours than Singaporeans. Its not a perfect society either, but maids there get a mandatory 1 day off a week.

Again, we in Singapore are the outlier, the rest of the world manages quite well with a more progressive policy. You don't need perfect conditions to enable this to happen, just some thought, compromise and determination.

Just curious 3boys, do you know if in HK the employers' interest are protected too? :?

[1amber]

3Boys:

SMH FOREST:

I just wanted to repeat my point that people in service industry will never have a right to say to their employers that they dont want to work on wkends. This is the nature of their jobs. Can the hotels shut on wkends? Can banquets NOT BE allowed to be held on wkends so that people like hotel managers/banquet managers can have a day off to jaga their family and kids?? Can showflats be closed on wkends? So, people who wanna view showflats got to take leave on wkdays? Can restaurants/food courts close on wkends so that their staff or Chefs can stay home and let their maids rest on wkends? Let's not talk abt numbers/percentage... but these are people who are locals and have maids and genuinely cannot get off work on wkends.


I know what you described is a PERFECT world, and what I've been trying to say is that we live in a less than perfect world. There are thousands of others working in such jobs and hundreds who have maids. Do you then ignore their needs?

I really dread the usual PAP mandate of pushing out a policy based on a perfect world, and then let's talk abt exceptions later. If MOM rejects a valid exception case, what's gonna happen? Can the maid employer go tell their employers that they can't get help on wkends and thus cannot go to work?? Let's just be realistic here... it will inconvenience many where they have an actual need.

Again, we are not saying that we confine the maids or don't approve of off days. If they are responsible for what have been laid out as a contractual agreement for them to come to work, then stick to it. If the employer do not need them on wkends and can afford off days, then give it to the maids. The preferred solution for us is to leave it to employer and maid to decide. Not a blanket rule that will create issues for some of us who really need that extra help...

Hong Kong has an economy much like Singapore, with services and the like. Plenty of cooks and sales folk work weekends there too, and its been shown that they work longer hours than Singaporeans. Its not a perfect society either, but maids there get a mandatory 1 day off a week.

Again, we in Singapore are the outlier, the rest of the world manages quite well with a more progressive policy. You don't need perfect conditions to enable this to happen, just some thought, compromise and determination.

The rest of the world manages quite well ... really?.

My German neighbour just told me that she's staying put in Singapore until at her children grow up.Why? Because she's gets maid support here. Back in a highly developed nation like Germany (especially in the former west germany areas), the policies are all stacked against families. People on the streets are anti-children. You cannot bring prams and crying babies into most restaurants esp in places like Frankfurt without getting unfriendly stares from patrons. The childcare support in the former west germany states are far from the ideal painted in this forum. They are more kiasu - parents are on waitlist even before kids born. In general people just don't want to have a family anymore. It is easier to walk their dogs than getting married and having kids. A German mother's view. Not mine. Do we want Singapore to get there? It is a NO from me.

We lived briefly in the UK a few years back. You know what - my friends are stressed with having to take care of children. They don't have help that they need. Come school holidays parents and grandparents get stessed. These are real people I am talking about. Not statistics. They are British people who are living out policies that do not support family needs. Do I want to emulate from the British, a developed and one of the rest of the world? Not for me.

Yes according to your definition we may be the outliers - but do not think that the people (esp parents with children/old aged parents) in developed nations are happier than us. It is too simplistic too make asumption that everything about a developed nation is worth emulating. As another writer pointed out, there are just too many factors to consider before one makes a judgment.

[1amber]

Again, we are not saying that we confine the maids or don’t approve of off days. If they are responsible for what have been laid out as a contractual agreement for them to come to work, then stick to it. If the employer do not need them on wkends and can afford off days, then give it to the maids. The preferred solution for us is to leave it to employer and maid to decide. Not a blanket rule that will create issues for some of us who really need that extra help…[/quote]



Exactly! MOM should review all other policies to make it a level playing ground for employers and maids.

[SMH FOREST]

I have 1 other point to add… Do you know why expats hire maids here and not back home? They may appear that they can juggle well back home, but the matter of fact is that they will not be able to afford a maid back home. Once they are expat to SG, their housing, child’s school expenses, utilities and even car are all paid for. This leaves them extra $ to hire a maid, and they gladly do so too! My american boss told me this himself! If only they could have this extra help back home, his wife would be really happy!!


So, don’t make it sound like they are managing w/o issues… don’t need helper and can manage?? It is just harder for them to hire any help when they are home due to the expenses they have. And yes, their maid gets off day here and he asks her to help his wife if he travels. Again, this works as long as the employer-maid have a mutual understanding and agreement…

[bigsnoopy]

ksi:

3Boys:

Hong Kong has an economy much like Singapore, with services and the like. Plenty of cooks and sales folk work weekends there too, and its been shown that they work longer hours than Singaporeans. Its not a perfect society either, but maids there get a mandatory 1 day off a week.

Again, we in Singapore are the outlier, the rest of the world manages quite well with a more progressive policy. You don't need perfect conditions to enable this to happen, just some thought, compromise and determination.

Just curious 3boys, do you know if in HK the employers' interest are protected too? :?

Ya from wat I know the maid borrow money themselves and work off the loan. The loan is bear by the maid in HK not by employers.

[1amber]

bigsnoopy:

ksi:

[quote=\"3Boys\"]

Hong Kong has an economy much like Singapore, with services and the like. Plenty of cooks and sales folk work weekends there too, and its been shown that they work longer hours than Singaporeans. Its not a perfect society either, but maids there get a mandatory 1 day off a week.

Again, we in Singapore are the outlier, the rest of the world manages quite well with a more progressive policy. You don't need perfect conditions to enable this to happen, just some thought, compromise and determination.

Just curious 3boys, do you know if in HK the employers' interest are protected too? :?

Ya from wat I know the maid borrow money themselves and work off the loan. The loan is bear by the maid in HK not by employers.[/quote]Yeap. Maids that go to HK know they gotta shape up or ship up. My ex-maid was afraid to go there when I asked her to try because she complained that the pay here is low. She replied that she is afraid because no chance of transfer if employer sacks her. She would rather come back here. See the point - NO TRANSFER allowed. They are forced to be serious. Not play play.

Another point - my Taiwanese friend said you will not find a new maid who doesn't know how to do housework the moment she steps into a Taiwanese household. The point is quality maids. She made the point that our local agencies are not doing their job (she's has the experience to say so because she has been living here for 8 years and have employed/changed so many maids). Some of us in this forum here are just echoing that point - the employer power (for lack of word) is not strong because the policy is skewed against employers.

[1amber]

SMH FOREST:

1amber:

The point of discuss in this thread is that quite a handful of us have no problem giving off days/time off to our maids but disagree with a blanket law mandating one day a week. We feel it should be left for mutual agreement between employer and maid.


But along this line, someone felt that it should be written down as policy to protect maids from abusive employers. But the point that many forum writers have pointed out here is that maids today aren't that blur and naive. They quote the opposite fact that maids are more conniving. Many of these employers recounted actual bad experiences. They have first hand experiences of being a lone parent having to juggle home, homework and work. If one has never been in their shoes (occasional doesn't count), how can one ever understand? Different families have different needs and stress points.

Quite a few in this thread are just calling for an updated view of today's maid/employer situation by giving actual accounts.

Let's not provoke by saying standards of employers have deteriorated, why can't they just give some time off, and other derogatory remarks. Doesn't mean that if you can handle something, then someone who cannot is a bad employer.

:goodpost:
Thanks for the perfect summary of what some of us are trying to highlight here!! :hi5:

:grphug:

[3Boys]

1amber, SMH,

you have hit the nail right on the head! It is part of the point I am trying to make all along. Families and working parents in those countries make the adjustments, suffer some hardships because the national ethos is not to be reliant on domestic help, or for that matter, will they allow a domestic worker to be under the watch of the employer 24/7, 7 days a week. Those countries (Germany, UK, USA), do not allow, on the basis of economics, and/or ethics, for any individual to exploit cheap labour or confine a worker, EVEN on a willing buyer-willing seller basis. It is the law and policy, and enacted for a reason. So the point is that they can manage, and they do. So, do I wish to replicate the pain of UK or US parents? Not particularly. But do I wish to replicate the ethos and the protection the policies offers to transients? Absolutely! And the latter trumps the former. Of course the expats love it here, I know that too, but that’s because our local laws allow for cheap domestic help which can really be stretched in terms of what they do, including no days-off. Its sort of like saying that pervs love travelling to Thailand because they can access cheap sex-workers there (or worse, child sex) due to non-existent laws or weak eonforcement. Is that something to be proud of? And who wouldn’t take advantage of it? Expats, locals, everyone! Which is why this theoretical construct of willing buyer-willing seller is irrelevant. If something is wrong, it is wrong, whether or not someone is willing to enter into contract on it. So unless a law is enacted or amended, the behaviours will never change. And do not forget, Singapore is now out of line with regards to ILO standards. Do they know that working parents in UK/US suffer for not having live-in maids? Of course they do, but it does not stop them from recommending international labour standards which enforce the rights of such disadvantaged workers.

Nation building is more than whether or not you have a maid on the weekend to change diapers and cook porridge. It is about the national psyche, about how we treat people, the philosophies around labour and exploitation. I want a Singapore where my children grow up understanding that people, be they be lowly maids, service staff, labourers, are humans too and deserve to be treated with dignity and respect. It would not do for me for them to take a view that there are ‘classes’ of society or workers that have diminished rights, or can be confined, or asked to do their bidding at all times and all days.

When I say ‘Saudi Arabia’, what runs through your mind, insofar as treatment of foreign labour? That contemptuous attitude, at the highest levels, permeates the entire society there. That is not the Singapore I want.

Anyway, I am not attacking anybody. There is a specific title to this thread, which is whether or not "maids should be given a day off every week", and I am merely elucidating my reasons for supporting it, and debating the reasons for not supporting it, which is well within the remit of this forum.