Should maids be given a day off every week?

[1amber]

SMH FOREST:

1amber:

The point of discuss in this thread is that quite a handful of us have no problem giving off days/time off to our maids but disagree with a blanket law mandating one day a week. We feel it should be left for mutual agreement between employer and maid.


But along this line, someone felt that it should be written down as policy to protect maids from abusive employers. But the point that many forum writers have pointed out here is that maids today aren't that blur and naive. They quote the opposite fact that maids are more conniving. Many of these employers recounted actual bad experiences. They have first hand experiences of being a lone parent having to juggle home, homework and work. If one has never been in their shoes (occasional doesn't count), how can one ever understand? Different families have different needs and stress points.

Quite a few in this thread are just calling for an updated view of today's maid/employer situation by giving actual accounts.

Let's not provoke by saying standards of employers have deteriorated, why can't they just give some time off, and other derogatory remarks. Doesn't mean that if you can handle something, then someone who cannot is a bad employer.

:goodpost:
Thanks for the perfect summary of what some of us are trying to highlight here!! :hi5:

:grphug:

[3Boys]

1amber, SMH,

you have hit the nail right on the head! It is part of the point I am trying to make all along. Families and working parents in those countries make the adjustments, suffer some hardships because the national ethos is not to be reliant on domestic help, or for that matter, will they allow a domestic worker to be under the watch of the employer 24/7, 7 days a week. Those countries (Germany, UK, USA), do not allow, on the basis of economics, and/or ethics, for any individual to exploit cheap labour or confine a worker, EVEN on a willing buyer-willing seller basis. It is the law and policy, and enacted for a reason. So the point is that they can manage, and they do. So, do I wish to replicate the pain of UK or US parents? Not particularly. But do I wish to replicate the ethos and the protection the policies offers to transients? Absolutely! And the latter trumps the former. Of course the expats love it here, I know that too, but that’s because our local laws allow for cheap domestic help which can really be stretched in terms of what they do, including no days-off. Its sort of like saying that pervs love travelling to Thailand because they can access cheap sex-workers there (or worse, child sex) due to non-existent laws or weak eonforcement. Is that something to be proud of? And who wouldn’t take advantage of it? Expats, locals, everyone! Which is why this theoretical construct of willing buyer-willing seller is irrelevant. If something is wrong, it is wrong, whether or not someone is willing to enter into contract on it. So unless a law is enacted or amended, the behaviours will never change. And do not forget, Singapore is now out of line with regards to ILO standards. Do they know that working parents in UK/US suffer for not having live-in maids? Of course they do, but it does not stop them from recommending international labour standards which enforce the rights of such disadvantaged workers.

Nation building is more than whether or not you have a maid on the weekend to change diapers and cook porridge. It is about the national psyche, about how we treat people, the philosophies around labour and exploitation. I want a Singapore where my children grow up understanding that people, be they be lowly maids, service staff, labourers, are humans too and deserve to be treated with dignity and respect. It would not do for me for them to take a view that there are ‘classes’ of society or workers that have diminished rights, or can be confined, or asked to do their bidding at all times and all days.

When I say ‘Saudi Arabia’, what runs through your mind, insofar as treatment of foreign labour? That contemptuous attitude, at the highest levels, permeates the entire society there. That is not the Singapore I want.

Anyway, I am not attacking anybody. There is a specific title to this thread, which is whether or not "maids should be given a day off every week", and I am merely elucidating my reasons for supporting it, and debating the reasons for not supporting it, which is well within the remit of this forum.

[3Boys]

1amber:

Yeap. Maids that go to HK know they gotta shape up or ship up. My ex-maid was afraid to go there when I asked her to try because she complained that the pay here is low. She replied that she is afraid because no chance of transfer if employer sacks her. She would rather come back here. See the point - NO TRANSFER allowed. They are forced to be serious. Not play play.

Another point - my Taiwanese friend said you will not find a new maid who doesn't know how to do housework the moment she steps into a Taiwanese household. The point is quality maids. She made the point that our local agencies are not doing their job (she's has the experience to say so because she has been living here for 8 years and have employed/changed so many maids). Some of us in this forum here are just echoing that point - the employer power (for lack of word) is not strong because the policy is skewed against employers.

I don't see the relevance of this to the question of whether the maid has a day off a week or not. Pay, transfer terms, benefits vary from country to country, but days-off seem pretty universal, even here in Singapore for the majority of jobs.

[Pen88n]

3Boys:

1amber:

Yeap. Maids that go to HK know they gotta shape up or ship up. My ex-maid was afraid to go there when I asked her to try because she complained that the pay here is low. She replied that she is afraid because no chance of transfer if employer sacks her. She would rather come back here. See the point - NO TRANSFER allowed. They are forced to be serious. Not play play.

Another point - my Taiwanese friend said you will not find a new maid who doesn't know how to do housework the moment she steps into a Taiwanese household. The point is quality maids. She made the point that our local agencies are not doing their job (she's has the experience to say so because she has been living here for 8 years and have employed/changed so many maids). Some of us in this forum here are just echoing that point - the employer power (for lack of word) is not strong because the policy is skewed against employers.

I don't see the relevance of this to the question of whether the maid has a day off a week or not. Pay, transfer terms, benefits vary from country to country, but days-off seem pretty universal, even here in Singapore for the majority of jobs.

I think it should come as a package. Other places may provide day off, but their maid quality is higher than in Singapore. Terms are also more favourable to employers and maids are not allowed to transfer. If these are in-placed and employers are no longer responsible for the guarantee bond for the maid, I do not see why there should be objection to off-day for maids. It is because employers are always put at a disadvantage - maid can request for transfer, guarantee bond at stake when maid run away, etc. By insisting on legislating off-day (just because other places are offering this) without other terms being equal is not being fair to employers.

[Flower Power]

Well said Pen88n. Always put everything in perspective and to look at them not individually but in relationship to each other.


The current industry practice/system is already so tilted towards maids and very often employers are being squeezed. Then again, of course one may tell you that you dont have to "die die must have a maid" as quoted.

In short, the existing deficiencies of the system needs to be sorted out and resolved first before talking about introducing new terms and conditions. Otherwise, it will only be adding complexity to existing problems.

[3Boys]

Pen88n:

I think it should come as a package. Other places may provide day off, but their maid quality is higher than in Singapore. Terms are also more favourable to employers and maids are not allowed to transfer. If these are in-placed and employers are no longer responsible for the guarantee bond for the maid, I do not see why there should be objection to off-day for maids. It is because employers are always put at a disadvantage - maid can request for transfer, guarantee bond at stake when maid run away, etc. By insisting on legislating off-day (just because other places are offering this) without other terms being equal is not being fair to employers.

Catch-22 right? Low pay, no off-days = Poorer quality of maids

Yes, I agree the other stuff need to be addressed from the employers' perspective, but glad to see that you are in principle agreeing with a maid's day off.

[LOLMum]

i think in the so many pages of posts, most of us do in principle, agree that maids should have a day off but there should not be a law enforcing it. it is best to leave it to the 2 parties to work out an agreement.



so it is the choice of the maid to decide if she wants to work for an employer who prefer the maid not to have day off. it is her decision.

there are cases whereby the maid after working for 1 or few days, decide she wants to quit, there is nothing the employer could do but to let go. so the maid does have the freedom to pick and choose employer.


if the maid choose to work for no day off - is there any violation of her human rights by anyone? :?

[verykiasu2010]

if it ever becomes law that employers and maids do not have the flexibility to make mutual agreement with regard to off day, then Halimah Yaakub should also propose that once the maid quits, the WP is also auto cancelled and she needs to be repatriated and black listed. Just like 30 years ago any work permit holder will have the WP cancelled the moment he / she quits. New employment was subject to new WP application. That would in some way stop the maid agencies from encouraging the maids to job hop and churn the maids for more placement fees


maids abuser (employers) are already subject to severe punishment by law

but employer abuser (maids) has no penalty. policy makers need to have their heads examined in IMH

[SMH FOREST]

Dunno if I'm the only one, but I just feel that my opinions are being skewed... hit the nail right on the head?!? :roll:


Suffer hardship.. pls dont think all of us who keep maids at home are just shaking leg... we are also caring for our kids and taking care of our home. Nation building? When we treat our maids as part of our family.. it is a very good showing to our kids on how to treat people.

My point again... there are many facets to a situation or problem... I think many people dont realise that some households just have it harder and want a blanket rule that would not have much impact to a PERFECT scenario...

There is a group of us who has this NEED to have help... we are not failures in parenting.. nor are we bad employers.. there's too many circumstances and reasons for having that extra help... if you don't see it, then to repeat again, u aint living the life that we are going thru... and you aren't opening yourself to understand others predicament..

Leaving the maid and employer to reach an agreement will solve this isn't it? If maid aint interested to work for no off days, then don't accept the job that requires it. We should regard the maids as having the maturity to decide what they want BEFORE they accept the job. This just adds on to the fact that the authorities should be regulating the maid agencies so that they can stop exploiting the employers and allowing transfers whenever, wherever.

[icemochi]

i like to believe that human rights for DH goes deeper than a day off. There are people who work everyday as well. However, we can go into some general cases of what will happen if this law goes through.


1) For DHs who are treated well and would like to save $ so as to go back home : Now they have to go out every sunday, as no boss would serve them meals and do all the chores while they stay at home relaxing around.

2) For DHs who are overworked : Yes, they get a day off weekly but their boss will still overwork them the rest of the 6 days, probably more so as to make up for it. This is what is happening in HK. We can do this and people will view us on par with HK… Good for the government too.

3) For DHs who are abused : if the abuse starts small, she can escape provided the boss is not a crazy person who locks her up.

4) For employers who are liberal: they wouldnt mind.

5) For employers who are conservative: they would worry themselves so much its never possible for them to trust the maid. The relationship between boss-DH is worsened.

In my humble opinion, this law, should it be passed does not signify a win for maid’s human rights. For DHs in case (1), they lose, as they have to spend more money and stay a maid longer.