Should maids be given a day off every week?
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3Boys:
I have a kidney to sell you, you know anyone in need?LOLMum:
i think in the so many pages of posts, most of us do in principle, agree that maids should have a day off but there should not be a law enforcing it. it is best to leave it to the 2 parties to work out an agreement.
Willing buyer, willing seller, no need law to enforce it.....let 2 parties work an agreement.
A senior medical figure proposed this at one time, not so far-fetched right?
:whut: oh my oh my :faint: -
LOLMum:
I have a kidney to sell you, you know anyone in need?3Boys:
[quote=\"LOLMum\"]i think in the so many pages of posts, most of us do in principle, agree that maids should have a day off but there should not be a law enforcing it. it is best to leave it to the 2 parties to work out an agreement.
Willing buyer, willing seller, no need law to enforce it.....let 2 parties work an agreement.
A senior medical figure proposed this at one time, not so far-fetched right?
:whut: oh my oh my :faint:[/quote]Tongue in cheek, my dear.......to illustrate the fallacy of allowing free-for-all in terms of contract negotiation. -
Flower Power:
No worries, Flower Power, I do understand what you mean, and under normal circumstances, I would not have given any of my maids the chance to own a mobile phone and go for day-off. I had two maids before employing her, and after she left, I had employed news ones. None of my maids was given such privilege to go for day-off. She was young, very efficient, responsible and bright, I knew the risk of letting her go on day-off. But I was thinking, even in corporate setting we do make special arrangement for the best performing staff, don't we? I was already practising giving my maids end-of-contract monthly bonus at the end of their contract periods. So really, it was a calculated risk I took. When the contract had to end abruptly, I do blame myself for contributing to its cause. I have learnt that rewarding maids cannot be compared to rewarding performance in a corporate setting. Till this day I still keep the photocopies of her diary, so that next time should I employ an efficient maid again, be reminded never to reward her with a day-off.Picolo:
A few years ago I had the most efficient maid. She was also very smart and responsible. To reward her, I allowed her to keep a mobile phone, so that she can message her younger bro in Indonesia whenever she needed to. Soon, she requested for day-off, saying that she wanted to meet her cousin who is staying at the other side of Singapore. I gave her day-off too. One day, she suspected she was pregnant and pretended that her mother wanted to see her badly and she needed to go back to Indonesia. I saw through her pretence and agreed immediately. Actually, her work attitude changed drastically after she was given day-off. I looked through her belongings trying to find some clues. Guess what, I found a diary she was keeping. In it, she wrote about a boyfriend, jealousy among the maid friends over the man, about where they went (incl Hotel 81), how he didn't answer her calls and messages after the ..., how frustrated when her menses didn't come,.... I couldn't believe how I had made her fall into a man's trap by giving her day-off ...
Piccolo, your post above about your ex-maid sounds so familar to me. Almost identical requests and reasons from my ex-maid (she who worked for me for 4 years). However the ending is vastly different. During her term, she too off and on requested for a mobile phone to call/sms her younger bro in Indo, she also requested for day-off, saying that she wanted to meet her cousin who is working in SG. Both requests I did not accede to - I told her that she has chosen and agreed to work in our household based on our mutually agreed terms from day one. Even when she renewed her second term of another 2 years with us, the same terms are reiterated and she has again chosen and agreed to the same terms (of course her salary is revised according to market rate). So why made all these requests which deviates from our mutually agreed terms? I stood firm by our initial agreement - she completed her 4.5 years with me, went home to get married, with 2 plots of land and a brand new house. I must emphasize that I am not claiming any credit here - her 4.5 years here in SG has paid off due to her own hard work and being able to stay focused. -
1amber:
A elected minister of a country should know whose welfare she or he should serve. We have not elected an MOM - minister of maids. There r many pressing labour issues to resolve. Choosing to solve this one first is because it is easy job - just pass the buck to employers. There r many Singaporean workers out there needing fairer deals, protection. Just take a look at the aged workers with an hdb loan to pay, old folks who have have been elbowed out of the job market but still need to put food on the table etc etc
Sorry, this is a digression. Just because he may or may not have more pressing needs does not make the day-off issue less wrong or important. -
MotherHen:
Let the day-off issue be an arrangement between employer and employee. I choose to believe that most employers in Singapore are fair, and will do what is right.
The same argument can be made for employers of normal workmen. Factory space is expensive, machines need to be kept running. Theoretically, one should keep the floor running 24/7, 7 days a week, and not give workers any days off. Lets give the factory owner the choice on this, to negotiate the contract with each worker, yes?
Guess what, its not allowed, under law.
Exigencies of service is not an excuse to deny a person a fundamental basic right.
Make it law, magnanimity will no longer have any part to play in it, but compliance will.
Sorry to sound harsh, but its exactly the lack of such a law that has caused this whole attitude, that somehow giving a maid a day off a week is magnanimous and generous. It is exactly because of the lack of a law, that Singaporean families have absolutely NO incentive to be fair. Why should they? They have a maid around on a Sunday so that we can kick up our feet. A nice little luxury, so why not? Soon even those who CAN allow a maid off will choose not to. Ask yourself, how many of you here started off by giving days off, and then stopped? See the trend? You really think it will get better on its own accord without some kind of legislation?
It has become embedded in the Singaporean psyche as a RIGHT, and entitlement, when in most parts of the free world, it is quite the opposite. It is repeated over and over and over in this forum, it has become the Singaporean way, NO MAID'S DAY OFF!
My parents didn't raise me to do that, and my kids will never see me do that. Shocking, in my opinion. -
3Boys:
Interesting comment...to put it nicely :whut:1amber:
A elected minister of a country should know whose welfare she or he should serve. We have not elected an MOM - minister of maids. There r many pressing labour issues to resolve. Choosing to solve this one first is because it is easy job - just pass the buck to employers. There r many Singaporean workers out there needing fairer deals, protection. Just take a look at the aged workers with an hdb loan to pay, old folks who have have been elbowed out of the job market but still need to put food on the table etc etc
Sorry, this is a digression. Just because he may or may not have more pressing needs does not make the day-off issue less wrong or important. -
3Boys:
I see so many assumptions in the above post... kick up our feet? Luxury?? There are many many better parents out there than you think...MotherHen:
Let the day-off issue be an arrangement between employer and employee. I choose to believe that most employers in Singapore are fair, and will do what is right.
The same argument can be made for employers of normal workmen. Factory space is expensive, machines need to be kept running. Theoretically, one should keep the floor running 24/7, 7 days a week, and not give workers any days off. Lets give the factory owner the choice on this, to negotiate the contract with each worker, yes?
Guess what, its not allowed, under law.
Exigencies of service is not an excuse to deny a person a fundamental basic right.
Make it law, magnanimity will no longer have any part to play in it, but compliance will.
Sorry to sound harsh, but its exactly the lack of such a law that has caused this whole attitude, that somehow giving a maid a day off a week is magnanimous and generous. It is exactly because of the lack of a law, that Singaporean families have absolutely NO incentive to be fair. Why should they? They have a maid around on a Sunday so that we can kick up our feet. A nice little luxury, so why not? Soon even those who CAN allow a maid off will choose not to. Ask yourself, how many of you here started off by giving days off, and then stopped? See the trend? You really think it will get better on its own accord without some kind of legislation?
It has become embedded in the Singaporean psyche as a RIGHT, and entitlement, when in most parts of the free world, it is quite the opposite. It is repeated over and over and over in this forum, it has become the Singaporean way, NO MAID'S DAY OFF!
My parents didn't raise me to do that, and my kids will never see me do that. Shocking, in my opinion.
Singaporean pysche.... then let's talk abt the other side of the Singaporean pysche that ASSUMES that everyone is morally incorrect... and only oneself is right... Or the assumption that all households are perfect... no problems in making arrangements for childcare or housework..
For those genuine cases whereby they need that extra pair of hands.. what will happen to them? Have no one to help due to this law??
There's many scenarios and family constituitions... dont ASSUME that ALL employers are slave drivers... ALL are lazing away... It is this precise attitude that didn't take care of others in less favourable situation that I don't want my kids to learn either.
To reiterate... i am not against off days 100%... my opinion is if i can afford it i will... but with a young kid, a spouse who works 7 days a week, plus me myself being subjected to biz travel whenever the need comes... and a set of gramps who are in their 70s... i can't afford that now... if i still have a maid when my kid is old enough to take care of himself... i will... In essence, leave the employer and maid to work out arrangements based on needs... -
3Boys:
For factory workers, they have a home to run, so in my humble opinion, it is more compelling to have the law. For the kidney case, if there are a lot of private surgeries, people can potentially die selling their kidney for money, please please do it.MotherHen:
Let the day-off issue be an arrangement between employer and employee. I choose to believe that most employers in Singapore are fair, and will do what is right.
The same argument can be made for employers of normal workmen. Factory space is expensive, machines need to be kept running. Theoretically, one should keep the floor running 24/7, 7 days a week, and not give workers any days off. Lets give the factory owner the choice on this, to negotiate the contract with each worker, yes?
Guess what, its not allowed, under law.
Exigencies of service is not an excuse to deny a person a fundamental basic right.
Make it law, magnanimity will no longer have any part to play in it, but compliance will.
Sorry to sound harsh, but its exactly the lack of such a law that has caused this whole attitude, that somehow giving a maid a day off a week is magnanimous and generous. It is exactly because of the lack of a law, that Singaporean families have absolutely NO incentive to be fair. Why should they? They have a maid around on a Sunday so that we can kick up our feet. A nice little luxury, so why not? Soon even those who CAN allow a maid off will choose not to. Ask yourself, how many of you here started off by giving days off, and then stopped? See the trend? You really think it will get better on its own accord without some kind of legislation?
It has become embedded in the Singaporean psyche as a RIGHT, and entitlement, when in most parts of the free world, it is quite the opposite. It is repeated over and over and over in this forum, it has become the Singaporean way, NO MAID'S DAY OFF!
My parents didn't raise me to do that, and my kids will never see me do that. Shocking, in my opinion.
Similar to the minister having more pressing issues, is no excuse for him to miss this issue. He can prioritize but he has to settle the issue. And since he has a ministry, there are always people he can allocate to solve the issue.
I know that there are many Singaporeans who does not treat their maids well. This society is so calculative as we have to pay tax for almost everything, (income, property, GST, road, erp, water, levy) led some people to think they should tax their maids as well. It could be their upbringing too, but I hardly think the law can change this. Instead, I was hoping that the ministry can put to use some of the levy collected to implement some checks or activities to educate people.
If you consider the low pay of the maids ($400) which they can put to good use in their homeland, it is actually quite cruel to dictate them to spend a day out every week to spend some in Singapore. Instead, let the employer know they have to give the maid a choice, take away the employer's responsibility so that they can have a choice to give the maid a choice. Usually, people without a choice find it difficult to give other people a choice. -
SMH FOREST:
Please do read my post a little more carefully, I stated, \"Even those who CAN....\". I hope you understand the nuance. Once there is no enforcement, left open to the judgement of individual employers, there will inevitably be abuse, which is the reason why I support a law in this regard.
For those genuine cases whereby they need that extra pair of hands.. what will happen to them? Have no one to help due to this law??
There's many scenarios and family constituitions... dont ASSUME that ALL employers are slave drivers... ALL are lazing away... It is this precise attitude that didn't take care of others in less favourable situation that I don't want my kids to learn either. -
3Boys:
I did read it carefully... and I am saying its an assumption.. not a definite too... I would second icemochi's suggestion to educate employers, and not to implement a law that would inevitably put those in less favourable situations at a HUGE disadvantage... that's what i hope the govt will not do... as it will only create even more inconveniences/issues for ppl in those situations... and i'm never agreeable to your thoughts of \"how many people in those situations actually have maids\"... matter of fact is there are many... and these households should not be disregarded...
Please do read my post a little more carefully, I stated, \"Even those who CAN....\". I hope you understand the nuance. Once there is no enforcement, left open to the judgement of individual employers, there will inevitably be abuse, which is the reason why I support a law in this regard.SMH FOREST:
For those genuine cases whereby they need that extra pair of hands.. what will happen to them? Have no one to help due to this law??
There's many scenarios and family constituitions... dont ASSUME that ALL employers are slave drivers... ALL are lazing away... It is this precise attitude that didn't take care of others in less favourable situation that I don't want my kids to learn either.
Likewise.. many here have highlighted that we have been abused by employment agencies... abused by the maids... this is a more pressing issue that should be tackled by law instead!
If it makes any sense at all, I just shared on another thread that my current indo maid was registered with MOM under a different agency name... its not the same agency name that i had signed a contract with... and this is done without my knowledge! WHY? Because the original agency name had already accumulated 9 demerit poins. No need to elaborate further why they had done this...
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