How this EM3 student became a PhD scholar
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3Boys:
a few special fellas made it,:?
The system stresses academic achievement, which allows even the mediocre performers to attain qualifications that allow them meaningful employment. And yet, does not discriminate against late bloomers (exemplified by MadScientist) who come into their own and can be impactful even in academically demanding fields like biomed.
There is no pleasing everyone, but our system is the envy of many and I don't know why so many people have an issue with it. The EM3 student became a PhD scholar, within our education system. Is that an indictment, or a showcase for the system? I would have thought the latter.
So if I understand your question correctly, it helps the majority by pushing them academically, there is enough flex to allow catch up for late bloomers, and there is something at the top end for high achievers.
Not perfect, but not bad.....
you say it helps the majority?
wat brand koyok u selling? (I know, it is the only brand on sale here.) -
wapobs:
Okay,
Not perfect, but not bad.....a few special fellas made it,
you say it helps the majority?
wat brand koyok u selling? (I know, it is the only brand on sale here.)
demonstrate to me that it is not you selling koyok.
Tell me by what measure, international or otherwise, that the education system in Singapore has failed the MAJORITY. That it has failed to equip them with the book knowledge to be employable. That it is inferior to other national systems. Please show me the stats to back your assertion. -
3Boys:
Tell me also by what measures, the Singapore education system is helpful when at the same time we have our dear leaders openly claim that we need FT to \"pouch above it's (Singapore) weight\" (he quoted and I said). If our education is so perfectly and flawless like what you claimed, why do our leaders still believe that FT is better?
Okay,wapobs:
Not perfect, but not bad.....a few special fellas made it,
you say it helps the majority?
wat brand koyok u selling? (I know, it is the only brand on sale here.)
demonstrate to me that it is not you selling koyok.
Tell me by what measure, international or otherwise, that the education system in Singapore has failed the MAJORITY. That it has failed to equip them with the book knowledge to be employable. That it is inferior to other national systems. Please show me the stats to back your assertion.
Tell me also again, if our education system is so great, why than are our jobs replace by FT? Jobs from clerks, sales, stall helpers etc to even teachers and doctors (just go visit the polyclinics). No doubt, our education system has it's strength. But we also need to see the overall package and how it helps our kids in finding a job in the local market.
And finally, it is very encouraging to see a previous EM3 student claiming success. But at the same time, how many more EM3 students did not make the cut or just give up under the current system. The numbers is not surprising.
3boys, I believe you will have no problem showing us the stats, since you will be (as usual) here all day long posting to and fro and researching high and low in the web for stats. By the way, when showing stats, please avoid those from the local ministry. One knows how they like to lump PR and citizen together. -
3Boys:
We have yet to produce a Nobel Prize winner?
Okay,wapobs:
Not perfect, but not bad.....a few special fellas made it,
you say it helps the majority?
wat brand koyok u selling? (I know, it is the only brand on sale here.)
demonstrate to me that it is not you selling koyok.
Tell me by what measure, international or otherwise, that the education system in Singapore has failed the MAJORITY. That it has failed to equip them with the book knowledge to be employable. That it is inferior to other national systems. Please show me the stats to back your assertion.
Singapore's education system is good for the majority, but the pitfall is that it's not flexible enough and the \"must-take course of the moment\" is what the government sees as economically beneficial to the country at that time.
There was a time when the government was avidly encouraging students to take up engineering. After that it was biomed, or something like that.
To my knowledge, a few years ago, there was an oversupply of engineers. Many engineering grads could not find jobs as engineers. Out of the eight people I know personally who were engineering grads, only two are in the engineering field. Six of them are doing jobs that are completely unrelated to engineering. :scratchhead:
I don't know if that can be considered a failure, but it's definitely a major pitfall. Tertiary education is not cheap and it seems a terrible waste to spend three or four years on a course only to find that you cannot find jobs in the field that you are qualified in. This is why whenever my nieces and nephews ask me for advice on what courses to take at tertiary level, I always tell them to go with their interests rather than with what the government says.
-
gohtab:
Tell me also by what measures, the Singapore education system is helpful when at the same time we have our dear leaders openly claim that we need FT to \"pouch above it's (Singapore) weight\" (he quoted and I said). If our education is so perfectly and flawless like what you claimed, why do our leaders still believe that FT is better?
Okay,3Boys:
[quote=\"wapobs\"]
Not perfect, but not bad.....a few special fellas made it,
you say it helps the majority?
wat brand koyok u selling? (I know, it is the only brand on sale here.)
demonstrate to me that it is not you selling koyok.
Tell me by what measure, international or otherwise, that the education system in Singapore has failed the MAJORITY. That it has failed to equip them with the book knowledge to be employable. That it is inferior to other national systems. Please show me the stats to back your assertion.
Tell me also again, if our education system is so great, why than are our jobs replace by FT? Jobs from clerks, sales, stall helpers etc to even teachers and doctors (just go visit the polyclinics). No doubt, our education system has it's strength. But we also need to see the overall package and how it helps our kids in finding a job in the local market.
And finally, it is very encouraging to see a previous EM3 student claiming success. But at the same time, how many more EM3 students did not make the cut or just give up under the current system. The numbers is not surprising.
3boys, I believe you will have no problem showing us the stats, since you will be (as usual) here all day long posting to and fro and researching high and low in the web for stats. By the way, when showing stats, please avoid those from the local ministry. One knows how they like to lump PR and citizen together.[/quote]The answer to your question on FTs is very simple. Because, like everyone else, we are limited by genetics. There is a saying (tongue in cheek!) that God loves ordinary people, because he made so many of them!
Singapore is no different. We no more or less smart than other people, be they Chinese, Indians, Americans or Europeans. Tough reality, but it is what it is. Therefore, our ability to have masses of super achievers (on a Global scale) are simply limited. So, in order to play on that field, we need to import.
We are not the only ones. France imported footballers to help win the World Cup. The USA, with its masses of top Universities, draws a large proportion of its strength in tech from imported talent. Should we perhaps not do the same?
However, it does not mean we leave ordinary Joe behind. We need to craft a system that is affordable and at the same time gives very good basic education the the majority (ordinary Joe), allow them to learn at their own pace, and maybe push them a little. Our academic achievement levels at primary level is not bad, look up the international league tables yourself. Mr EM3 was a slow starter, would he have been better off thrown in the deep end with higher achievers from the get go, or should he be given the opportunity to grow at his own pace? Bear in mind, a large number of those in EM3 are probably at their correct academic level, or do you disagree? Or do you propose to completely do away with EM3? Or do you wish to commit more resources to EM3 than available to children of normal ability? What do you propose?
Look up stats? Sure, I wished more people would do so, instead of wallowing in a vacuum and scratching their heads. Here's one more for you --> <http://www.realonlinedegrees.com/education-rankings-by-country/> You can disbelieve me, but then you have to do some research to do so, yes?
I'm not sure you have really framed the problem, or perhaps have just the germ of a solution? I.e., if you wish to critique and tear down the present system, do you have something I can trust to take its place? The reason I dig into numbers is to understand if there is really a problem in the first place. Sometimes there is, sometimes there isn't.
I'm not as prolific as you think, taken me 3 years to get to GM1.
Yeah, I'm persistent and a pest, but that's the beauty of the web....
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Mdm Koh:
I think as parents in the modern era, we have wisened up to the notion that the first degree is just a start. That is somewhat the beauty of the liberal arts college approach that is taken in some of the US unis. It does mean a longer commitment to tertiary education though, and costs too.
To my knowledge, a few years ago, there was an oversupply of engineers. Many engineering grads could not find jobs as engineers. Out of the eight people I know personally who were engineering grads, only two are in the engineering field. Six of them are doing jobs that are completely unrelated to engineering. :scratchhead:
I don't know if that can be considered a failure, but it's definitely a major pitfall. Tertiary education is not cheap and it seems a terrible waste to spend three or four years on a course only to find that you cannot find jobs in the field that you are qualified in. This is why whenever my nieces and nephews ask me for advice on what courses to take at tertiary level, I always tell them to go with their interests rather than with what the government says. -
if the education in singapore is crap, how come the graduates of the system could all aspire white collar office jobs with high pay, not even eligible for HDB flats ?
and no one wants to be sales assistants, hawker assistants that clear tables, wash dishes, serve tables in restaurants, make beds in hotels, do the rounds in hospitals, no ones want to work under the sun doing construction work and we have to rely on India Indians, China Chinese, Blanga dash here dash there, to do all the heavy lifting and to build houses and offices for us to occupy ? …same for the ship building industry, why so dependent on foreign workers, and those machine operators ?..how come no Singaporeans ‘qualify’ for these jobs if our education is crap? and why is it so difficult to recruit accounts clerk, data entry staff (call them IT executive whatever…)? and those workers at MRT sites, rain or shine, 24/7, how come we singaporeans don’t want those jobs? who are driving the trains and buses ?
ya, may be it is true, we singaporeans are damned pissed that these jobs are taken by foreigners, and we don’t have a chance to clear tables and wash dishes and drive buses, Mr Heng Swee Kiat better quickly look into the education system to ensure that we do not need foreigners to do all the above jobs, better train our true blue ‘born & bred’ singaporeans to be able to serve table, build roads and houses, and drive rubbish trucks and buses, kick their own balls and play their ping pong
liddat damn good man, everything for singaporeans by singaporeans only -
I'm not sure if I agree with the term \"ordinary Joe\".
I have a friend who interviews candidates for his alma mater, an Ivy League university in the US.
According to him, the top Singaporean students only know how to study hard and excel in exams. They are misinformed about current affairs and not particularly interested in getting to know the country that they might be studying in.
One student from a top JC did not even bother to find out where the university was located.
These people are supposed to be the creme de la creme. :nailbite: -
I went back to read the article to understand what this whole furore was all about. How did a local boy made good, within our education system, turn out to be a stick to beat the system from whence he came?
Look at his track, completely within the SG education, provided for via various avenues for folk at differing abilities at different points in time. EM3 --> Sec school Normal --> Poly --> NTU.
By his own admission, Mr Lim was 'not interested' in studies back in P school. Was he misplaced in EM3? As his abilities awakened, he progressed up the academic track.
It gives me a lot of comfort to see this. I am an end user of the Singapore education system, if any of my young children are not academically inclined at a young age, I know it is not a death sentence.
So why is this not a celebration of a young man's talents and demonstration of the various avenues for progress WITHIN the system, and why is it a stick to beat the educators with? Really baffles me :? -
3Boys:
I think it's because for every one guy who makes it into the newspapers, there are thousands more who fall through the cracks.I went back to read the article to understand what this whole furore was all about. How did a local boy made good, within our education system, turn out to be a stick to beat the system from whence he came?
Look at his track, completely within the SG education, provided for via various avenues for folk at differing abilities at different points in time. EM3 --> Sec school Normal --> Poly --> NTU.
By his own admission, Mr Lim was 'not interested' in studies back in P school. Was he misplaced in EM3? As his abilities awakened, he progressed up the academic track.
It gives me a lot of comfort to see this. I am an end user of the Singapore education system, if any of my young children are not academically inclined at a young age, I know it is not a death sentence.
So why is this not a celebration of a young man's talents and demonstration of the various avenues for progress WITHIN the system, and why is it a stick to beat the educators with? Really baffles me :?
If he was not interested in studies back then, could the school have done something more to help him, instead of streaming him into EM3?
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