If you could, would you decide on a 3rd child?

[momoshop]

mathsparks:

You guys are probably missing my point. I was trying to convey the extreme stress we (society, parents and themselves) place on our kids. That's why I refuse to have a 3rd child. Not when most of them don't have much of a childhood to remember. I wasn't talking about the monetary sacrifice!


Ask around if you've kids/friends' kids who are all grown up what they remember about their childhood. It's endless rounds of tuition/music/ballet/projects/exams/competitions. Of course, the luckier/richer ones would remember the holidays they have at the end of each year.

Momoshop, you are entitled to your opinions but have you seen a child thru sec?

Mathsparks.. I do feel for you, in the tedium of raising teenager kids. We dun need to have put kids thru them to know what it is like. I was a hellish tennager who ran away from home, stole, and was so emo that I almost killed myself, even though I was considered smart, in the good schools and my parents worked real hard to see me through a gd education - so yeah, you could say I belong to one of those kids who ought to be grateful but I was willing to throw all that away. I saw my sis thru her sec school years and I also saw many of much younger cousins smoke and \"beng\" their way thru school and some eventually ended up in jail for some illegal acts. We read news papers everyday on sexuality issues with teens, cyberuse and its abuse, and all the problems associated with teenage angst.

It is stressful, and it is costly, not just in terms of fiances, but in time, in emotions. However, ultimately, there is so much that we can do. We are all humans, we do the best we can and leave the rest in fate/ God's hands, whichever you believe in. Having 1 kid carries that risk of a problem teen and having 2 or 3 carries the same risk. However, IMHO, having more than one gives us more hope, and also that the kids will rally and come through together. I know my sis was a source of comfort for my mum when I was a bad kid.. and years later, when my sis had her own bad patch and was really problematic, I was there to help her and my mum .

I think part of the stress comes from our expectations of the kids too.. It is easy to fall into the trap of cute tods = successful cheerful responsible adults later, or we wish for that so badly. Or we hope that kids will mature into adults without having to go thru the extreme dark side of life.

But in the very end, we know their life is their own when we pass on. If they have to come around after much hardship in life, that is it. We cannot always wish and hope to prevent it for them, no mater how hard we wish and try. And When they come of age, it is their life. Even as parents, we can't control that anymore.

It may seem very tough during the times when the kids are having problems and issues etc, but try to see it as a process, a part of life that some just have to go thru..

And I say this because, I feel that I will not be who I am if I have not been what I was.

take care Mathsparks

[skunk]

momoshop:

Having 1 kid carries that risk of a problem teen and having 2 or 3 carries the same risk. However, IMHO, having more than one gives us more hope, and also that the kids will rally and come through together. I know my sis was a source of comfort for my mum when I was a bad kid.. and years later, when my sis had her own bad patch and was really problematic, I was there to help her and my mum .

well said. Life has always been tough. It was tough in the old days, it is tough now, and it will always be tough. That's Life. But a meaningful life is one where the family rallies together and doesn't give up.

Imagine a mother saying to her kids, \"I don't want another child, just to see it suffer in this world.\" And her kids wondering, \"if u had known earlier that it was this tough, would you have killed me in the womb?\"

And worse, the mother's own mother, thinking, \"so it was my fault for bringing her into this stressful world so she must suffer? And have more children so they suffer too?\"

Suffering is part and parcel of Life. Take it, swallow it and try to enjoy it

[tony]

skunk:

I myself i was a very difficult child, I smoked (i still do), i played truant, i took drugs, i did everything that was bad.

Skunk, I can't believe how illogical this is. You mean, you were a bad egg in your teen years and you presume to be an authority on parenting teenagers?

This is a forum for discussion, not for pounding your opinions into others because they differ from you. Being passionate about your stance is one thing. But being disrespectful to other forumers is another.

[skunk]

tony:

This is a forum for discussion, not for pounding your opinions into others because they differ from you. Being passionate about your stance is one thing. But being disrespectful to other forumers is another.

I don't see how i've been disrespectful. I think her opinions are no good, that's a personal view, similarly, others can think my opinions are crazy too.

She's the one who chooses to feel hurt, I'm not hurt if others think my views are crazy.

[skunk]

insider:

Whether to have 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6... children, it's a personal choice...

well, sometimes it's not our choice. I know of ppl who got pregnant even using condoms, even a rare documented case of pregnant after ligation. Of course, there's always abortion, but then that's another discussion.

There are many reasons to have/not to have children. Money is one consideration, sometimes there really isn't enough, or is it? One can always choose to give up luxuries, or even give up their own dreams for their children, that is so noble.

Space is another consideration...to have more than 4, is hard, even if living in a large HDB flat. But then one can always install bunkbeds...

Some reasons are more valid than others. But the reason why I was so fervernt against Mathsparks's reason, is because it's one that leads to a very dangerous argument.

To decide not to bring a 3rd child into the world because it's \"too stressful\", is to regret bringing the 1st and 2nd into the world, in fact, it repudiates the mother's own mother's efforts of bringing her into the world in the first place, as a mistake. Since the world is so stressful and horrid, why live in the first place?

It's the line of thinking that leads to an endless downward spiral.

[skunk]

tony:

you presume to be an authority on parenting teenagers?

I didn't presume to be an authority, u presumed that i presumed to be an authority.

Teenagers were hard, is hard and will forever be hard to bring up, and no one can dare say they are an authority. But parents just need to be strong, don't give up on them, and don't give up on Life, and everyone can ride out this very rough patch of life smoothly.

To just have difficulty with one teenager, and to give up hope on children and the next generation, is to give up on a Full Life, one not just filled with joy and happiness but also the tears and blood that make up a wonderful world.

[PlayfulFairy]

Hmm I don’t mind having a 3rd child if my mum quits and help me… being SAHM with 2 kids and no help at all(i’m quite against the notion of having domestic helper), sometimes makes me wanna tear my hairs out… however, I also harbour the fantasy of going out, picnicking with 3 school going kids, surrounded by lotsa grandkids… that said, it’s not easy to raise ‘’ quality" kids…

[winth]

Sigh... I've always wanted to hear from parents who have teenage children cos they are the ones who have experienced the REAL thing, versus the DREAMED thing.


Esp from insider and mathspark who already have kids of their own who struggled through secondary school days. Guessed I logged in too late to hear such an interesting discussion.

Sometimes, it's really easy to fantasize about how their infant will turn out to be and think/plan (unrealistically) that this is and that is what I think I'm going to do when my own daughter does that. These people just don't know the 'break-down' point of tending to 2 or more chidren.

When DS1 was only 1-2:
- dedicate 2 hours to read/play/write/sing to him
- whole world dedicated to him
- i had so much disposable free time
- cook/clean house WITHOUT any automatic dishwashers/dryer/scoopa
- and still be a working mum

When DS2 came along:
- things and time just break up into pieces
- perfect DS1-DS2 time coordination so that I miss none out
- became their referee in all sorts of arguments etc
- educate them in all sorts of ways (it was almost hell till I could almost breakdown)
- good maid came only 2 months back, so I had managed household for the past 6 years
- and i'm still a working mum

I am just waiting for my relative to have her own children after she mocked at me so many years ago about how come we couldn't even set aside time to exercise - go gym, swim, movies. Just clean the house only mar, what's so difficult. And when I was with DS1, she mocked again at how stupid we guys are to just stop at 1, should have 2 mar... more fun. :roll:
She just moved into her new house with her new hubby. :evil:

So, to new parents like skunk, let me wish you all the luck that you will have all the easy time in this world to still perfect your culinary skills, cook, clean, teach when your half-dozen comes as per planned.

[skunk]

winth:

Sometimes, it's really easy to fantasize about how their infant will turn out to be and think/plan (unrealistically) that this is and that is what I think I'm going to do when my own daughter does that. These people just don't know the 'break-down' point of tending to 2 or more chidren.

it's a chicken and egg situation, when u r already mentally prepared to be strong, mentally prepared for any situation, u r more likely to be able to take it.

When u think, \"oh, if this-and-this happens, i will break down\", u r setting a boundary for \"breaking down\" and it's more likely to happen.

In case u are referring to me, I really have no breakdown-point, because what's the worst that can happen? Death? I'm not afraid, because Fear paralyses and makes things worse.

Cheers.

[winth]

winth:

Sigh... I've always wanted to hear from parents who have teenage children cos they are the ones who have experienced the REAL thing, versus the DREAMED thing.


Esp from insider and mathspark who already have kids of their own who struggled through secondary school days. Guessed I logged in too late to hear such an interesting discussion.

Sometimes, it's really easy to fantasize about how their infant will turn out to be and think/plan (unrealistically) that this is and that is what I think I'm going to do when my own daughter does that. These people just don't know the 'break-down' point of tending to 2 or more chidren.

When DS1 was only 1-2:
- dedicate 2 hours to read/play/write/sing to him
- whole world dedicated to him
- i had so much disposable free time
- cook/clean house WITHOUT any automatic dishwashers/dryer/scoopa
- and still be a working mum

When DS2 came along:
- things and time just break up into pieces
- perfect DS1-DS2 time coordination so that I miss none out
- became their referee in all sorts of arguments etc
- educate them in all sorts of ways (it was almost hell till I could almost breakdown)
- good maid came only 2 months back, so I had managed household for the past 8 years
- and i'm still a working mum

I am just waiting for my relative to have her own children after she mocked at me so many years ago about how come we couldn't even set aside time to exercise - go gym, swim, movies. Just clean the house only mar, what's so difficult. And when I was with DS1, she mocked again at how stupid we guys are to just stop at 1, should have 2 mar... more fun. :roll:
She just moved into her new house with her new hubby. :evil:

So, to new parents like skunk, let me wish you all the luck that you will have all the easy time in this world to still perfect your culinary skills, cook, clean, teach when your half-dozen comes as per planned.