5.18M of population. Good or bad?

[Oppsgal]

3Boys:

david59:

[quote=\"3Boys\"]As I said, those who gripe about short-term discomforts are only seeing one side of the equation. Whilst one should not downplay infrastructure problems, one also does not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Closing our borders will have severe consequences, even for those who clamour for it and think it is a solution to all ills. It may help solve the issues around crowdedness, but will cause a whole new set of different problems, of far greater impact, in my opinion. When you look at the obvious problems, don't forget to look at the non-obvious factors as well.

It is not about closing our border to foreigners. It is about balancing the influx of foreigners n the building of infrastructures to enable the continual quality of life for everyone. The question is why our highly paid ministers did not see this coming in their planning? It is unacceptable.
You may achieve wealth thru continued high GDP growth but if the infrastructures are not coping n causing great friction n unhappiness in our society, the end result is far worse. What is wealth being without well being?

And how does one quantify the degree of 'badness' of infrastructure? How do you get the balance exactly right when economic cycles are volatile and infrastructure projects like MRT and HDB flats take multi-year planning?

If Seagate comes and tells the EDB, I want to open a hard-disk factory here next year, employing 2000 people, do we tell them, \"No, wait another 3 years until we add the circle line and build 2 more blocks of flats\"?

When the global economy booms, we have to play hard to capture as much of the market as we can, otherwise they will just go elsewhere.

If not, the problem of overcrowding can be solved, permanently. Not only that, we can then be like other nations in the vicinity, and export our labour to countries that are booming, since we are so protectionist about letting any industry in that requires foreign labour. Then we can be the foreigners crowding with other locals in THEIR cities, rather than locals crowding with foreigners in OURS.

We will have a very relaxed situation here then, don't need to crowd with anybody, HDB flat prices will come down, and we only need to compete with fellow Singaporeans for jobs......not that there will be many to go around.[/quote]Then should do \"Cheaper, Better, Faster\" jobs in building hdb and mrt, to overcome the balance of incoming of foreigners if planning to have more people?

[raysusan]

Oppsgal:

raysusan:

can our transport,hospital,house etc able to handle this kind of influx of foreigners?

What do you think from the look around here?

lol... looking at the waiting list from the CC centre
i see it is .................. :?:

[david59]

3Boys:

david59:

[quote=\"3Boys\"]As I said, those who gripe about short-term discomforts are only seeing one side of the equation. Whilst one should not downplay infrastructure problems, one also does not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Closing our borders will have severe consequences, even for those who clamour for it and think it is a solution to all ills. It may help solve the issues around crowdedness, but will cause a whole new set of different problems, of far greater impact, in my opinion. When you look at the obvious problems, don't forget to look at the non-obvious factors as well.

It is not about closing our border to foreigners. It is about balancing the influx of foreigners n the building of infrastructures to enable the continual quality of life for everyone. The question is why our highly paid ministers did not see this coming in their planning? It is unacceptable.
You may achieve wealth thru continued high GDP growth but if the infrastructures are not coping n causing great friction n unhappiness in our society, the end result is far worse. What is wealth being without well being?

And how does one quantify the degree of 'badness' of infrastructure? How do you get the balance exactly right when economic cycles are volatile and infrastructure projects like MRT and HDB flats take multi-year planning?

If Seagate comes and tells the EDB, I want to open a hard-disk factory here next year, employing 2000 people, do we tell them, \"No, wait another 3 years until we add the circle line and build 2 more blocks of flats\"?

When the global economy booms, we have to play hard to capture as much of the market as we can, otherwise they will just go elsewhere.

If not, the problem of overcrowding can be solved, permanently. Not only that, we can then be like other nations in the vicinity, and export our labour to countries that are booming, since we are so protectionist about letting any industry in that requires foreign labour. Then we can be the foreigners crowding with other locals in THEIR cities, rather than locals crowding with foreigners in OURS.

We will have a very relaxed situation here then, don't need to crowd with anybody, HDB flat prices will come down, and we only need to compete with fellow Singaporeans for jobs......not that there will be many to go around.[/quote]You r not reading us. We r not against foreign workers n talents working or migrating to Singapore. We know we need them to complement us. It is the speed by which these foreigners r being brought into our little red dot. Our city planners had planned and projected accordingly for the population to hit 5 millions at 2020. Do you understand? We have gone into extreme overdrive! GDP is important for the country but to what %age of growth at the expense of social cohesion n well being.
We r saying,\" Slow down from overdrive. Let us reflect n realign before we move ahead.

[pinky]

'Our city planners had planned and projected the population to hit 5 million by 2020\" - and we have hit 5.18M 9 years ahead. Can they 're-do'

and keep up with the demand? :slapshead: :slapshead:

[juz_me]

Yes - we do need people. Economy needs to grow… However, I personally felt the govt had a open a "floodgate" back 2 years ago - allowing alot of more foreigners converting to SPR easily…more work pass holders and etc… they should slowly increase the figures as the current infrastructure cannot support such a quick increase number of people. Hospitals, HDB, transport and etc…


Are we going to stop allowing any more foreigners coming in or convert to SPR when we hit the "magical" figure??

Been to HK before… everywhere is crowded with people. The size of the home unit is small… the air is "polluted"… hopefully, Singapore will not be like that…

This is just my own thots…

[limlim]

3Boys:

When the global economy booms, we have to play hard to capture as much of the market as we can, otherwise they will just go elsewhere.

You meant the rich and the elites and the businessman hv to play hard to capitalize as much as possible and reap as much benefit as possible at the expense of the peasants.. ?

the rich and businessman gets richer from the bigger consumer base and CHEAP labour.. the peasants suffers the consequences of overcrowded PUBLIC TRANSPORT, PUBLIC HEALTHCARE, PUBLIC HOUSING etc.. while not benefiting from the expanded consumer base and possibly suffer from suppressed wages and overwhelming competition for jobs and school places..

[raysusan]

limlim:

3Boys:

When the global economy booms, we have to play hard to capture as much of the market as we can, otherwise they will just go elsewhere.

You meant the rich and the elites and the businessman hv to play hard to capitalize as much as possible and reap as much benefit as possible at the expense of the peasants.. ?

the rich and businessman gets richer from the bigger consumer base and CHEAP labour.. the peasants suffers the consequences of overcrowded PUBLIC TRANSPORT, PUBLIC HEALTHCARE, PUBLIC HOUSING etc.. while not benefiting from the expanded consumer base and possibly suffer from suppressed wages and overwhelming competition for jobs and school places..

limlim
i like your post
一针见血 :celebrate:

[verykiasu2010]

one way of looking at \"suppressed wages\" is that we are overpaid and under-productive


EVERY one is looking at where the cheap labour is. SIA's call centre is in India and accounting is partly done in China....same for some of the banks ..... their processing of documents are done in china, not in singapore.

I rather have suppressed wages than zero wages

alright, I know I will attract lots of stones flying at me now :siam: :siam:

[david59]

verykiasu2010:

one way of looking at \"suppressed wages\" is that we are overpaid and under-productive


EVERY one is looking at where the cheap labour is. SIA's call centre is in India and accounting is partly done in China....same for some of the banks ..... their processing of documents are done in china, not in singapore.

I rather have suppressed wages than zero wages

alright, I know I will attract lots of stones flying at me now :siam: :siam:

So, you feel that you are overpaid but under productive? I really sympathetic with ur situation. What do you intend to do? Ask your boss to give you a paycut to justify the amount of work you put into.

[verykiasu2010]

very simplistic to just say the foreign workers come and suppressed the locals’ wages


there are simply too many jobs that the local do not want to take (nurses, bus/truck drivers, rubbish collectors on Sembcorp trucks, shipyard workers, construction workers, renovation workers, electrician, aircond servicemen, brick layers, road/drain diggers, hotel housekeepers, receptionist, radiologist, cashiers at supermarkets, petrol station pump attendants, mechanics at motor repair shops, accounts clerks, audit assistants, restaurants workers - cooks, food servers, dish washers, hawker centres stall assistants and those who clear tables, sales assistants, doctors (yes, doctors, because overseas hospitals have better work environment for the same pay, that is why MOH wondering how to attract them back - so you have Burmese, Chinese doctors in SG now),

and there are many jobs that local businesses will not be able to afford locals’ pay without going out of business (ditto above)

but thanks to technology and communication, many companies can now locate their backroom operation to India and China, and their production can be located to China, eastern Europe, Mexico, other ASEAN countries (except SG and MY)…and still sell the more powerful laptop and LCD tv at half the price than 5 years ago

but some of the works have to be done in situ, but thanks to transportation, foreign workers can be brought in to build new offices and new MRT lines … else the MRT fare would cost $5 per trip or more, or otherwise build the buildings elsewhere to bring to singapore lor …

without the suppressed wages, then pay more for everything else, well almost