5.18M of population. Good or bad?
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verykiasu2010:
honestly I don't believe they - even foreign nurses - could be paid lower than the starting pay of Indon maid without working experience....who is kidding who :rotflmao: :rotflmao:[/quote]Who is kidding who? It was reported in the Straits Times after a son of a patient who was a residence on Nightingale Nursing Home loaded up on Youtube of how the staffs handled his mother roughly by throwing her from the wheel chair to the bed. Later it was reported that the management could not hire Singaporeans because of the low pay of $400 monthly.
Singaporeans not willing to take on certain jobs. Pay is one huge factor why many Singaporeans will not. Take the case of the staffs working in the nursing home reported in the press. It was reported that the pay was only $400 monthly. For a foreign worker, $400 is a lot of money n most are given free accommodation or stay in a hostel or a room that squeezes in as many heads as possible so that rental cost for each person will be very low. But a Singaporean has quite a few big expenses to shoulder like mortgage, children education, etc. When I tour Malaysia I can afford to buy more things with the same amount of that I an buy in Singapore. I have seen Indian workers eating rice with curry gravy only.david59:
[quote=\"verykiasu2010\"]the problems, at least a large portion of it, if not entirely, is that most singaporeans don't want those jobs, whether the employers are government or private sector
agree about the point whether the government should practice full cost recovery / with profit, or should bear some of the cost of the basic infrastructure to reduce user cost borne by citizens ..... for eg, i never agree to the concept of \"market subsidy\" for selling (or rather it is leasing 99 years airspace in new HDB flats) to citizens. to me \"market subsidy\" is just another form of profiteering legitimised.
however, private sectors like SIA (though partially owned by Temasek) exist to maximise profit for the shareholders. it is not a social enterprise
Ya, companies seek to earn maximum profit for shareholders. There lies the root of all problems. If a company can make as much profit without squeezing too much on workers pay, then it is a great company that takes care of its staffs. There are many other avenues to increase profit margin, right? I work in a student care centre. We pay staffs market rate n we have only increase student fee marginally in the last ten years of operation. We feel a sense of doing a service for the community. To me, at that point in time SIA should have retained its senior staffs by doing a temporary pay cut to tide through the rough period. Obviously to maximum profit, it seized that opportunity to retrench high paying staffs to trim labor cost n hire cheaper new staffs.
In the end as Lim shared, the rich bosses get richer but the employees get poorer if more n more companies' motto is maximum profit for shareholders by squeezing as much as possible on labor cost.
You check out lor. Why I want to bluff for what? -
david59:
pay more for the nursing care then the nursing home can pay more to the nurses.
Who is kidding who? It was reported in the Straits Times after a son of a patient who was a residence on Nightingale Nursing Home loaded up on Youtube of how the staffs handled his mother roughly by throwing her from the wheel chair to the bed. Later it was reported that the management could not hire Singaporeans because of the low pay of $400 monthly.
You check out lor. Why I want to bluff for what?
in any way, that case is discredited
http://www.asiaone.com/News/AsiaOne+News/Singapore/Story/A1Story20110611-283577.html
Mr Toh, 42, told Straits Times reporters yesterday that he released the video just so he could get his mother out of the home to live with him.
'All I wanted was to get my mother out of a nursing home so she can stay with me. I didn't want to get Nightingale into trouble,\" he said, speaking in Mandarin to Straits Times reporters yesterday.
Mr Toh also defended the actions of the care workers, saying his mother was naked in one scene because \"she had just taken a shower, so they let her sit in the chair for awhile\".
\"The way they carried my mother to the bed was understandable too, since they didn't have a proper hospital bed that can be lowered for her,\" he said.
Mr Toh also described the slap as a \"gesture of affection between friends\" after having stayed at the home for four years, reported the Straits Times.
just plain abuse of nursing home to settle family dispute -
verykiasu2010:
My point here is that I am not kidding about the pay of $400 monthly.
pay more for the nursing care then the nursing home can pay more to the nurses.david59:
Who is kidding who? It was reported in the Straits Times after a son of a patient who was a residence on Nightingale Nursing Home loaded up on Youtube of how the staffs handled his mother roughly by throwing her from the wheel chair to the bed. Later it was reported that the management could not hire Singaporeans because of the low pay of $400 monthly.
You check out lor. Why I want to bluff for what?
in any way, that case is discredited
http://www.asiaone.com/News/AsiaOne+News/Singapore/Story/A1Story20110611-283577.html
Mr Toh, 42, told Straits Times reporters yesterday that he released the video just so he could get his mother out of the home to live with him.
'All I wanted was to get my mother out of a nursing home so she can stay with me. I didn't want to get Nightingale into trouble,\" he said, speaking in Mandarin to Straits Times reporters yesterday.
Mr Toh also defended the actions of the care workers, saying his mother was naked in one scene because \"she had just taken a shower, so they let her sit in the chair for awhile\".
\"The way they carried my mother to the bed was understandable too, since they didn't have a proper hospital bed that can be lowered for her,\" he said.
Mr Toh also described the slap as a \"gesture of affection between friends\" after having stayed at the home for four years, reported the Straits Times.
just plain abuse of nursing home to settle family dispute
Read for yourself here in this link from Straits Times.
http://160.96.186.100/lib/pdf/2011/Jun/ST1111.pdf
Your point that the home should charge more fee so that staff can be paid more speak a huge volume of your philosophy about making money. Already nursing home fee is expensive n not many average income families can really afford to pay. I feel that it is pointless to speak to a person like you in this topic.
Good nite. -
david59:
My point here is that I am not kidding about the pay of $400 monthly.
pay more for the nursing care then the nursing home can pay more to the nurses.verykiasu2010:
[quote=\"david59\"]
Who is kidding who? It was reported in the Straits Times after a son of a patient who was a residence on Nightingale Nursing Home loaded up on Youtube of how the staffs handled his mother roughly by throwing her from the wheel chair to the bed. Later it was reported that the management could not hire Singaporeans because of the low pay of $400 monthly.
You check out lor. Why I want to bluff for what?
in any way, that case is discredited
http://www.asiaone.com/News/AsiaOne+News/Singapore/Story/A1Story20110611-283577.html
Mr Toh, 42, told Straits Times reporters yesterday that he released the video just so he could get his mother out of the home to live with him.
'All I wanted was to get my mother out of a nursing home so she can stay with me. I didn't want to get Nightingale into trouble,\" he said, speaking in Mandarin to Straits Times reporters yesterday.
Mr Toh also defended the actions of the care workers, saying his mother was naked in one scene because \"she had just taken a shower, so they let her sit in the chair for awhile\".
\"The way they carried my mother to the bed was understandable too, since they didn't have a proper hospital bed that can be lowered for her,\" he said.
Mr Toh also described the slap as a \"gesture of affection between friends\" after having stayed at the home for four years, reported the Straits Times.
just plain abuse of nursing home to settle family dispute
Read for yourself here in this link from Straits Times.
http://160.96.186.100/lib/pdf/2011/Jun/ST1111.pdf
Your point that the home should charge more fee so that staff can be paid more speak a huge volume of your philosophy about making money. Already nursing home fee is expensive n not many average income families can really afford to pay. I feel that it is pointless to speak to a person like you in this topic.
Good nite.[/quote] :rotflmao: :rotflmao: you want to pay the staff more but not willing to pay more fees. you presume nursing homes make a lot of profit ? if they can't balance between income and expenditure, you expect them to print money ? only US can print and print, not nursing home
it is not philosophy about making money. it is about balancing the books without going bankrupt -
5.18M is bad for a country as small as Singapore and which does not have natural resources. Intuition tells me the government isn’t right about everything.
"Your time is limited, so don’t waste it living someone else’s life. Don’t be trapped by dogma - which is living with the results of other people’s thinking. Don’t let the noise of others’ opinions drown out your own inner voice. And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become. Everything else is secondary." - Steve Jobs -
Many Singaporean don’t truly appreciate how many 5 years they have… how many chances they wanna give…
Just one "sorry" and it caused another 5 years of waiting for the peasants… What a great deal for the "servant"… -
verykiasu2010:
Wow! You feel very hilarious about such issue huh, councillor? It sure speaks huge volume about your character. I let forumers be the judge.
:rotflmao: :rotflmao: you want to pay the staff more but not willing to pay more fees. you presume nursing homes make a lot of profit ? if they can't balance between income and expenditure, you expect them to print money ? only US can print and print, not nursing home
it is not philosophy about making money. it is about balancing the books without going bankrupt
It seems your main methods of making as much profit for shareholders is by squeezing as much as possible from labour cost and/ or from customers/ clients.
I reiterate that home nursing care fee is already very expensive for the lower and average income families. With more Singaporeans ageing and fewer children to look after them, the demand for nursing care is already shooting thru the roof. In fact, demand has already outstipped supply. The government must make this issue a top priority and not be caught off-guard again for poor policy planning. If fee is too expensive and nursing home operators cannot make reasonable profit if needed to pay more reasonable salary to workers, the government must work out a solution. Unless they are ready hoping that all who cannot afford should send their aged parents to Johore Bahru for cheaper alternative. Otherwise, they will be caught off guard again for making poor policies.
As for you, Councillor, I bid you good bye. I see no necessity to reason with you again. -
It would be quite interesting to know how much the govt is funding a typical nursing home in term of % of its running cost.
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david59:
how much you really know about the commercial world ? if a nursing home notwithstanding its altruistic motive cannot cover cost, it will have to close, however noble is its objective
Wow! You feel very hilarious about such issue huh, councillor? It sure speaks huge volume about your character. I let forumers be the judge.verykiasu2010:
:rotflmao: :rotflmao: you want to pay the staff more but not willing to pay more fees. you presume nursing homes make a lot of profit ? if they can't balance between income and expenditure, you expect them to print money ? only US can print and print, not nursing home
it is not philosophy about making money. it is about balancing the books without going bankrupt
It seems your main methods of making as much profit for shareholders is by squeezing as much as possible from labour cost and/ or from customers/ clients.
I reiterate that home nursing care fee is already very expensive for the lower and average income families. With more Singaporeans ageing and fewer children to look after them, the demand for nursing care is already shooting thru the roof. In fact, demand has already outstipped supply. The government must make this issue a top priority and not be caught off-guard again for poor policy planning. If fee is too expensive and nursing home operators cannot make reasonable profit if needed to pay more reasonable salary to workers, the government must work out a solution. Unless they are ready hoping that all who cannot afford should send their aged parents to Johore Bahru for cheaper alternative. Otherwise, they will be caught off guard again for making poor policies.
As for you, Councillor, I bid you good bye. I see no necessity to reason with you again.
singapore is not a welfare state yet. you can gripe about government policy faults and mis-steps, but don't expect a commercial outfit to run at a deficit. it won't survive.
you want to champion the nursing pay being low : go ahead. I just pointed out to you that the case in point was an abuse of the nursing home to settle his family dispute to get his mother out of the nursing home. nowhere is the press report mentioned that Nightingale home paid their workers at $400 per month. In another link you provided, yes, $400 per month for the foreign worker.
the point is, singaporeans shun nursing job. you point is they are not paid enough ? so, how much is enough to entice them into the industry ? how many thousands$ per month ? if you expect singaporean nurses to be paid in the thousands per month then you would have to expect to pay higher for the nursing fees. that is all what i am saying in a nutshell. nursing homes need to balance their books. they are not run as a charity. they have to cater for financial risks and a return for their shareholders - what if the gov't does not renew the land lease ? what if the landlord keep increasing the rental ? who is going to foot the losses ? it is easy to be an armchair critic if you have not run a commercial organisation responsible for others' capital investment and cost. -
verykiasu2010:
so, how much is enough to entice them into the industry ? how many thousands$ per month ? if you expect singaporean nurses to be paid in the thousands per month then you would have to expect to pay higher for the nursing fees. that is all what i am saying in a nutshell. nursing homes need to balance their books. they are not run as a charity. they have to cater for financial risks and a return for their shareholders - what if the gov't does not renew the land lease ? what if the landlord keep increasing the rental ? who is going to foot the losses ? it is easy to be an armchair critic if you have not run a commercial organisation responsible for others' capital investment and cost.
Same question we ask about ministers' pay, isn't it?
Why won't the govt renew the land lease if it is a nursing home that is doing good to the society?
Why would the landlord keep increasing the rental? - Or should my question be, \"Who are the landlords?
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