Can we bring our students' learning away from tuition?
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coast:
No lah... really... kids finish exam and come out and cry. The parents wrote to forum. When results came out not so bad. A couple of years ago I think...
It might not be because of PSLE's difficulty. Just this recent 2011 PSLE results release, a parent told me that in her dd school, some kids who score 250++ cried. Why? Because they cannot get into Rxx .. So it could be their expectations (to be top 3%) rather than the difficulty. -
limlim:
I can see where you are coming for. But schools want their students to perform well in PSLE. If PSLE standard is never known (I am assuming that principals/ HODs do not get access to actual PSLE papers), they will continue their current practice of setting internal exam papers. How can MOE tell the schools to test what are being taught when PSLE standard remains elusive (i.e., does it have a small set of questions that test beyond what are being taught?)?coast:
I don't think it will work because what matters most is PSLE. Parents have access to top schools' exam papers and I have already heard on different occasions comments like this school's papers very easy, not sure how their students can handle PSLE, this school's papers very difficult, .....Chenonceau:
The real PSLE standard remains elusive..Thanks for clarifying. I see what you mean now. Then the (perceived) difficulty of PSLE, how?
Now, if we take away the problem faced by parents P1-P5 students, that their child is tested beyond what was taught in schools, doesn't that address most of the issue already?
Whether they want to send their kids since P1, to enrichment classes, to prepare for that PSLE 5 years later, which real standard is never know.. that, is up to the parents.
How many parent is really that kiasu? I guess not that many. Considering, say, for school exams, No tuition, 80marks.. got tuition, 81 marks.. (everything is already taught in school).. why tuition?
Parents definitely will get very anxious if, their kids can't manage the school papers.. bcoz they were not taught those. But if their can handle the school papers reasonably.. and that the PSLE standard is never known.. will they all \"rush\" to send their kids to tuition classes? I guess not.
Maybe only those students were really cannot catch up with the school's progress will need additional help. Those that can manage, doesn't need to.
Just like in the olden days when parents/members of KSP forum are still schooling.. Those who have tuition are the minority.. :evil:
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coast:
I think they recognise the phenomenon but their official reply is \"we cannot stop parents from sending their kids for enrichment/ tuition\".
Maybe now they do recognise it (even then, they still say not their problem because it isn't a flood, it's ponding only :shock: )... Their official reply to Pamela via ST Forum that year was that she was much mistaken and that the phenomenon did not exist. -
limlim:
Yes, it's good to be positive and constructive, I like your mindset
I guess the best we can do here is to discuss whether or not it is possible to \"improve\" the situation.Chenonceau:
I'm not saying it's a bad idea. You said so yourself that it takes some refinement so my comment is not a judgment of your suggestion.
The MOE officials will just tell ya that they have no resources for this. That's what they told me. Friend, it didn't FLOOD. It PONDED only.
As long as we agree that it \"can be done\".. the only question that remains is whether \"they want to (do it)\"..
That, is not for us to say already.. But at least we've done our part.. to provide a lead.. at least..
Not just parents who complain this complain that but provide no concrete suggestion/solutions.. :evil: :evil: 
The reason why we pose certain questions is because we do not have acccess to data and info ... if the rationale is explained, then at least we know the reasons and will not \"complain\" ... e.g., we know why we need PSLE T-scores ... but we do not know why PSLE actual papers are not released, neither do we know why A*, A*, B, ... are not tied to a fixed mark range -
Regarding this topic, maybe we could ask the ministers or teachers or the MOE heads whether they send their kids or grandchildren for tuition? :evil:
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Chenonceau:
Well, I am saying there are some students who expect to be top 3%, and the kids know they could not answer some questions, they might cry right? But that does not mean the paper is difficult mah.
No lah... really... kids finish exam and come out and cry. The parents wrote to forum. When results came out not so bad. A couple of years ago I think...coast:
It might not be because of PSLE's difficulty. Just this recent 2011 PSLE results release, a parent told me that in her dd school, some kids who score 250++ cried. Why? Because they cannot get into Rxx .. So it could be their expectations (to be top 3%) rather than the difficulty.
Hmm, could that be the reason why they need bell-curve for A*, A, .... too? So that overall % of A*, A, ... remain consistent and that the level of difficulty remains consistent across the years. But in the first place, % of A* or A or B or ... are not released anyway, only Quality Passes (A* & A) are released, so why cannot fixed the marks for A*, A...? -
coast:
I woke up this morning and an answer popped up
I have been :? to think of the reasons why MOE does not release the exact PSLE past years' papers? I really dread to think discriminatory is the reason. They already have GEP (which has a small class-size ratio and I also read in KSP that GEP students have advantage in DSA) ... GEP selection is veiled (it does not bother me since it affects only 1%) but PSLE is a national exam. One MP has asked in Parliament why MOE does not release raw scores. If only that MP follows up with more questions like \"Why can't you release PSLE papers?\", \"Why are the range for grades A*, A*, .... not fixed?\"Chenonceau:
Yeah lor.... true standards are a big secret because if people knew, they would all aim for it... and then the PSLE won't be discriminatory anymore. The solution then is to ensure that the market does not get perfect information (whether in terms of standards nor access to educational resources). What this means is that it isn't the best child that wins, but the child that has access to privileged information (whether in terms of standards or educational resources).
The PSLE must be discriminatory you see. I realised I have been thinking about the correct questions (bold above) and now that I have a logical explanation, I am a bit embarrassed that I did not deduce it earlier. Of course my guess could still be wrong but I have convinced myself
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coast:
Just guessing.... Maybe MOE is worried that if they release the entire paper, then teachers/tutors will start to query over the scores that their children get when PSLE results are out because they will be able to find out which are the questions that the children did wrongly. Then MOE will be busy answering phone calls and re-marking papers.....
I have been :? to think of the reasons why MOE does not release the exact PSLE past years' papers? I really dread to think discriminatory is the reason. They already have GEP (which has a small class-size ratio and I also read in KSP that GEP students have advantage in DSA) ... GEP selection is veiled (it does not bother me since it affects only 1%) but PSLE is a national exam. One MP has asked in Parliament why MOE does not release raw scores. If only that MP follows up with more questions like \"Why can't you release PSLE papers?\", \"Why are the range for grades A*, A*, .... not fixed?\" -
jesschan:
I did consider the above too. But if I am not wrong, MOE releases the exact O levels past years' paper? If so, then it would not be the case.
Just guessing.... Maybe MOE is worried that if they release the entire paper, then teachers/tutors will start to query over the scores that their children get when PSLE results are out because they will be able to find out which are the questions that the children did wrongly. Then MOE will be busy answering phone calls and re-marking papers.....coast:
I have been :? to think of the reasons why MOE does not release the exact PSLE past years' papers? I really dread to think discriminatory is the reason. They already have GEP (which has a small class-size ratio and I also read in KSP that GEP students have advantage in DSA) ... GEP selection is veiled (it does not bother me since it affects only 1%) but PSLE is a national exam. One MP has asked in Parliament why MOE does not release raw scores. If only that MP follows up with more questions like \"Why can't you release PSLE papers?\", \"Why are the range for grades A*, A*, .... not fixed?\"
Yes, parents can find out which questions their children did wrongly but raw scores are not disclosed. Grade mark range is not fixed (i.e., for any particular year ... you do not know the marks range for A*, A ...). So the basis of appealing to MOE for grades would remain the same. Besides, MOE can publish the actual papers way after PSLE results are released and settled. -
coast:
I think O Levels is not marked locally, so not MOE's problem.....
I did consider the above too. But if I am not wrong, MOE releases the exact O levels past years' paper? If so, then it would not be the case.
Yes, parents can find out which questions their children did wrongly but raw scores are not disclosed. Grade mark range is not fixed (i.e., for any particular year ... you do not know the marks range for A*, A ...). So the basis of appealing to MOE for grades would remain the same. Besides, MOE can publish the actual papers way after PSLE results are released and settled.
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