Intellect or Age Peer?

[concern2]

2ppaamm:

So, in 1984, there was a public concern and MOE put a New Education System in place. Now we have concerns again leh... wonder if a Newer Education System can be put in place.


Look, times have changed. Our country is now richer, with more educated parents and this is the information age, children are knowledgeable, and many more knowledgeable than their teachers. Technology has changed, newer pedagogy have come about and more research has been done. Surely we can come up with a newer system that is better for all our kids? Not just the gifted ones, but everyone.

:goodpost: I so agree to this, 2ppaamm! This is a similar conclusion I have come to after I read about the GEP.

Gosh, 1984 - launch of Apple Macintosh - what milestones have MOE made since then? Recruiting foreign talents like in the sporting arena so to raise standards?? The education system lacks so far behind compared to technology. What would Steve Jobs do if he were minister of Education...Hm...apart from using the latest Apple tech that is... :evil:

2ppaamm:

Surely, we have enough reserves to invest in the most important resources of all?

I hate to add this 2ppaamm, but perhaps our reserves have been used to give away scholarships to foreigners??

[concern2]

Chenonceau:

2ppaamm:

I was lured to put my son into GEP solely because of that word \"individual\", and I thought he'll be given a chance to inquire, to ask and to grow. I thought people will understand giftedness and differences. I was wrong.

2ppaamm's son went to GEP. He is now in uni at 15.

Is it cos of GEP or was it through accelerating his grades on part of 2ppaamm? Think there is a difference here.

[concern2]

Nebbermind:

concern2:

:scratchhead: So it is still about grades?

Surely diff GEP parents will have diff wishlist. But so far none has shared here in this thread.

One thing I'm still not sure is what is tested in the GEP selection. Surely it is not just another IQ test.

I've seen kids with consistently excellent results from from P1~P3 not even making it to the selection when maybe 40~50 qualified, and some multi-talented (academic, performing arts, leadership) missing out on the final selection whe 1-~20 were selected.

I've met some of these kids. Some are really all-rounders....u can put them in any school and they will still excel. There are some who looks like ADD....others in a world of their own...some excellent in science but sux in math or vice versa. They r not an homogenous group of kids.

So my point is, if u r not selected, it does not limit your success academically. Similarly, if u r selected, u r not guaranteed academic success....u r still very much in control of your life, ie, it's still up to u whether u want to succeed or not.

Thanks, nebbermind, for your clarifications. I am hoping to hear more input from other parents on GEP. Hoping for some enlightenment in this topic..

[Chenonceau]

concern2:

Chenonceau:

[quote=\"2ppaamm\"]
I was lured to put my son into GEP solely because of that word \"individual\", and I thought he'll be given a chance to inquire, to ask and to grow. I thought people will understand giftedness and differences. I was wrong.

2ppaamm's son went to GEP. He is now in uni at 15.

Is it cos of GEP or was it through accelerating his grades on part of 2ppaamm? Think there is a difference here.[/quote]I think it was 2ppaaamm. Gifted children don't usually come in cookie cutter shapes. The current GEP has a syllabus at its centre, and is not entirely child responsive i.e., you observe EACH child and feel its interests and strengths and sculpt accordingly. In addition GEP kids also have the stress of PSLE which is entirely syllabus-centric.

When I evaluated the program a few years ago, the combination of both syllabus-centric PSLE + syllabus-centric broad-based GEP exposure + grades looked like a lot of work and stress. But maybe it's just me, and since we've never actually experienced the GEP personally, I think it's time to :siam:

[2ppaamm]

Nebbermind:

concern2:

:scratchhead: So it is still about grades?

Surely diff GEP parents will have diff wishlist. But so far none has shared here in this thread.

One thing I'm still not sure is what is tested in the GEP selection. Surely it is not just another IQ test.

I've seen kids with consistently excellent results from from P1~P3 not even making it to the selection when maybe 40~50 qualified, and some multi-talented (academic, performing arts, leadership) missing out on the final selection whe 1-~20 were selected.

I've met some of these kids. Some are really all-rounders....u can put them in any school and they will still excel. There are some who looks like ADD....others in a world of their own...some excellent in science but sux in math or vice versa. They r not an homogenous group of kids.

So my point is, if u r not selected, it does not limit your success academically. Similarly, if u r selected, u r not guaranteed academic success....u r still very much in control of your life, ie, it's still up to u whether u want to succeed or not.

Wish list for GEP or wish list for the child? Thought I shared the latter earlier.

[Nebbermind]

In this forum, most of the time we are talking about neither. It's usually the wishlist of parents here!!!

[2ppaamm]

Chenonceau:

2ppaamm:

I was lured to put my son into GEP solely because of that word \"individual\", and I thought he'll be given a chance to inquire, to ask and to grow. I thought people will understand giftedness and differences. I was wrong.

2ppaamm's son went to GEP. He is now in uni at 15.

Actually, he just turned 12 this year.

[2ppaamm]

kiddo:

Nebbermind:

[quote=\"concern2\"]

:scratchhead: So it is still about grades?

Surely diff GEP parents will have diff wishlist. But so far none has shared here in this thread.

One thing I'm still not sure is what is tested in the GEP selection. Surely it is not just another IQ test.

I've seen kids with consistently excellent results from from P1~P3 not even making it to the selection when maybe 40~50 qualified, and some multi-talented (academic, performing arts, leadership) missing out on the final selection whe 1-~20 were selected.

I've met some of these kids. Some are really all-rounders....u can put them in any school and they will still excel. There are some who looks like ADD....others in a world of their own...some excellent in science but sux in math or vice versa. They r not an homogenous group of kids.

So my point is, if u r not selected, it does not limit your success academically. Similarly, if u r selected, u r not guaranteed academic success....u r still very much in control of your life, ie, it's still up to u whether u want to succeed or not.

very reassuring for Parents nebbermind....
there is many path to success.........
what is define as success anyway? :imanangel:[/quote]Success is to loving what you do, and the ability to find joy in what you do not like to do and have to do. :boogie:

[2ppaamm]

Chenonceau:

I think it was 2ppaaamm. Gifted children don't usually come in cookie cutter shapes. The current GEP has a syllabus at its centre, and is not entirely child responsive i.e., you observe EACH child and feel its interests and strengths and sculpt accordingly. In addition GEP kids also have the stress of PSLE which is entirely syllabus-centric.

When I evaluated the program a few years ago, the combination of both syllabus-centric PSLE + syllabus-centric broad-based GEP exposure + grades looked like a lot of work and stress. But maybe it's just me, and since we've never actually experienced the GEP personally, I think it's time to :siam:

Don't :siam: leh... your thoughts are always very enlightening.

I was never concerned about school syllabus, I send my children to school to play and have friends. So, you'll hardly see me complaining about the syllabus, because I don't even get involved. My kids pretty much handle themselves, unless the teachers call me (which I hate very much, btw). Similarly, I am never concerned about the GEP syllabus, don't really monitor, criticize or even evaluate that. I've always known our education system caters too much for making engineers and doctors, and focus nothing on enriching the soul. I don't complain, I provide materials for my children even when they were in school. I've never forgotten my mission for sending the kids to school - to play, I supplement whatever I needed to.

What led me to ultimately pull out my kids from school is the mentality of the educators and the system. There are too many problems to name, but I cannot agree to too many things, mostly administrative: from how they handle late comers, administrative forms, teacher's childish behavior, principal's high and mighty ego, strange way of handling parents' complains etc etc. For this child, most importantly, because of these strange admin procedures and treatment he got, he fell into depression. I had to rescue him from people who do not understand giftedness, for reasons I stated in my previous post. Sadly, even the MOE folks agreed with me, their reason is that other countries have more resources than Singapore and we are too small to cater to individuals. Like I said before, I find this excuse atrocious, whether the kid is gifted or not. As educators, we are supposed to cater to each kid!

It was a difficult decision to finally homeschool, but it was my older boy was told me what the right thing to do was. DS1 went to university at 14 (3.5 years ago), and he found release and enjoyment. When DS2 had all these problems, he told me the right thing to do is to let him learn with his intellect peers, not age peers. So far, I am only too happy DS2 has no more signs of depression and is learning what he loves day-to-day.

Many are enslaved to the GEP system, and many are also enslaved to the Singapore education system, thinking this is the only way out for the latter, and thinking it is prestigious for the former. For the longest time, I was like that too. But now that I found out how much of a frog under the well I was, I found freedom in pursuing what my kids love together with them. The radical acceleration is only a side effect/benefit from all these. Whether your kid is top 0.000001% or bottom 10%, I still believe he will find immense joy in doing what his heart and mind desires and not what the system unnecessarily forces him to do.

Don't get me wrong. I am for a good syllabus, I am for healthy competition, I am for good discipline and for asking a kid to do what is necessary even if he does not want to do those. But the current school system has gone overboard with KPI-chasing educators and Grade-chasing parents. I just want out of it, and move on - our double bonus is the way forward is upwards.

[tutormum]

2ppaamm:

tutormum:

DS3 shown great interest in learning ever since he could read at 2 years old. He looked forward to going to school so much that whenever he past by his brother's former Kindergarten his eyes would glow. When I refused to buy assessment books for him to do, he would cry. It was only when he was in K2 that I bought them for him to prepare him for Primary school. My reason is simple, I don't want him to move too much ahead of his peers. School work for the first 3 years were too easy for him. I only allow him to do assessments that were a year ahead of his peers; ie. he did P2 assessment when he was in P1. He has no tuition and as assessment books were too easy for him and he got bored subsequently, he spent his time reading. When he made it to the 2nd round of the GEP test, I was pleasantly surprised. He claimed that he's half gifted though he didn't make it to the GEP program. He's been cruising along in his schoolwork and I was only concerned when he needed to take the PSLE. Next year, he'll be sitting for his O levels and I'm now shifting to higher gear by starting to apply pressure on him. Still, DS3 is living a carefree life, doing the minimum and enjoying what he's doing. He could have performed much better in school if I didn't put a brake on his 'progress' but I choose to let him enjoy his childhood rather to stress himself out to be in the top of his cohort. I may sound like a bad mummy but I don't want him to be too 'competitive' and get burnt out in the long run.

I admire what you do, and I am sure your DS3 is doing well and enjoying himself. But I am curious why you benchmark him against his cohort and do not want him to be 'too much ahead of his peers'? Why does that matter? By peers we are talking about his age peers. Now, I understand this is like so long ago (more than a decade), but would you have done differently today?

btw, I had the same thinking as you with my older children, and I did also hold them back a few years. My son (who should be a year or two older than your DS3) was held back 3 years before I finally relented and sent him to the university to pursue his passion and dream. Today, he still tells me that was the best thing that has happened to him, to pursue his dreams at a young age, to have friends who understand how he thinks, to discuss with them about issues others find strange. He still keeps his age peers friends, and go out with them, trains with them, and go for overseas trips, and even parties. Now, they are all talking about getting the driver's license and getting prepared for the army next year.

:oops: Nothing to admire. I just did cos I didn't want him to be stressed or risk being ostracize by his peers. I do at times wonder whether I've done the right thing esp when my friend's daughter went to GEP. There's so many 'ifs' but after talking to some teachers and parents (even some students) I guess I may not be wrong either. DS3 became arrogant in lower primary until he realised that he was still a small fish in the ocean. He did mix with weaker students and help them in their work, so he wasn't arrogant in that sense but at times I do think that he's too smart for his own good. :xedfingers: He likes to mix with ppl older than him and in a way this provides the platform to discuss issues deem beyond his scope. At times he smells of elitism and gets irritated when his peer appears ignorant by saying or doing something unacceptable to his level of intelligence. :slapshead: I emphasize moral values more than academic and wish that he will be well equipped to be able to survive and be an asset in this society.