Yale-NUS College

[2ppaamm]

micko07:

2ppaamm:

Hm... interesting... my question would be, if the student knows he wants to be a lawyer, what good is a liberal arts bachelor degree, to spend another year on? If they are doing the masters program, they would rather exchange that for a Yale liberal arts? I'd rather advise them to apply for a PhD.

Just my take. I don't understand youngsters and their parents fully these days. I am just an ordinary folk who believes that getting a good job and spending time with the family just makes more sense than chasing after degrees that do not add to anything. Time is too precious to mug around with.

I'm currently studying Law (albeit not in NUS), and in my view, the value of a Liberal Arts degree is precisely the fact that it's broad-based. At my university, we can only do Law modules, and even though I enjoy my subject, I would certainly have liked the option of taking some non-Law modules. In that sense, this DDP has the best of both worlds - you gain a qualifying law degree, but also a greater perspective beyond legal issues. Whether this actually translates into tangible outcomes career-wise I'm not sure, but I favour the idea of learning for its own sake (notwithstanding practicalities). Most of us only go through undergrad once - I'd rather make the most out of it while I'm there, and that includes gaining greater depth and breadth of knowledge.

Also, that one does a Masters does not mean that he/she is interested in taking a PhD. As I understand it, a PhD adds little value unless one is considering a career in academia, as opposed to an LLM or MBA.

I can roughly guess where you are if you are doing a recognized LLB outside NUS. If you are interested in liberal arts and want to learn for its own sake, you can always audit liberal arts classes, without having to take a liberal arts degree. That way, you will enjoy the classes even more without the pressure of grades. Steve Jobs did that, and look at the resulted beauty of marrying liberal arts with technology in his products. He had no formal degree in liberal arts or any science.

Besides the law subjects there are other subjects required for your LLB, I believe. They include university cores and electives. These can also add depth to your education. To go to the extent of getting a liberal arts degree (normall 148 credits) I think is too far fetched for a more 'enriching' undergrad experience, and on parents' budget or on a loan. The opportunity costs do not make sense to me, especially if the direction is clear that one is heading to practise law. I'd say go for the LLM instead for that one year.

I was questioning the rationale of dropping a masters course for an ALB, not suggesting a masters student should take a PhD. Totally different discussion here. Agree that Masters and PhDs may or may not attract the same students, PhD is normally research-based while a masters may or may not be. Some masters are terminal degrees but not all.

[Mdm Koh]

Applications for admission are now open. In the spirit of meritocracy, I urge all who are interested to apply. I understand that the college has been promoting itself at certain top schools, but students who are not from the top schools should apply as well if they are interested.

[micko07]

2ppaamm:

I can roughly guess where you are if you are doing a recognized LLB outside NUS. If you are interested in liberal arts and want to learn for its own sake, you can always audit liberal arts classes, without having to take a liberal arts degree. That way, you will enjoy the classes even more without the pressure of grades. Steve Jobs did that, and look at the resulted beauty of marrying liberal arts with technology in his products. He had no formal degree in liberal arts or any science.


Besides the law subjects there are other subjects required for your LLB, I believe. They include university cores and electives. These can also add depth to your education. To go to the extent of getting a liberal arts degree (normall 148 credits) I think is too far fetched for a more 'enriching' undergrad experience, and on parents' budget or on a loan. The opportunity costs do not make sense to me, especially if the direction is clear that one is heading to practise law. I'd say go for the LLM instead for that one year.

I was questioning the rationale of dropping a masters course for an ALB, not suggesting a masters student should take a PhD. Totally different discussion here. Agree that Masters and PhDs may or may not attract the same students, PhD is normally research-based while a masters may or may not be. Some masters are terminal degrees but not all.

My university, unfortunately, does not practice the \"core/ major\" system that is found in the US schools or Singapore universities. In my university, you only ever study your own course (whatever it may be, chemistry, engineering, history, medicine etc). There is no option for taking any form of credits outside law at all - we only do law modules. (We're allowed to sit in on any lectures offered by the other faculties, but we certainly can't take any modules or attend tutorials). Even trying to attend other lectures is often very difficult or impossible due to scheduling and the sheer amount of work involved.

I'm not quite sure how much difference an LA BA would be compared to an Masters in Public Policy (unless one plans to go into the Civil Service). I'm a little doubtful that it'll value add more than the former (no arguments about the LLM though).

[dragonflysg]

Was an interesting read. As a parent, the one thing I look for in any University/College to enrol my kids (who are still very young) will be the employment prospect after completing that programme. And what would contribute to that? In Singapore, it seems to be only about one thing, the brand name of the Uni. I disagree.


Why an employer chooses someone over another, or someone even gets to the interview stage out of so many CVs? Brand name helps. But there are other contributing factors, which all our Universities (including this YNU) do not have.

1 - Placement office. In Singapore, most of them are called \"Career Office\", who does mostly annual career fairs, and internships for only top students. In most (not most) top Universities, the placement office tries to get as many internships as possible for the students, and the students themselves know they jolly well get into the good internships. The internships let the employers have a 8-10 week interaction and evaluation of the prospective employee as opposed to 1-2 hour interviews. Good interns usually get higher placement success.

2 - Alumni relations. Almost unheard of in Singapore. Overseas top Unis try their best to cultivate their alumni to get both donations and network to place their students.

3 - Passion. This is more for entry to University. Local Universities do not have a clear indication of what they are looking except for grade competition. The overseas top ones are clearer. Having worked in the area of your chosen subject major gives you higher chances. This shows passion, committment, and really knowing what you are getting into. Not just going to Uni to get a degree and hopefully land a job and probably not in your subject major.

I am not saying that our Unis are no good. I just thought that when choosing a course or Uni, our young ones should ask the questions that they should ask. \"What are my employment chances? What facilities do the Uni have for me to ensure I am ahead of other Uni grads, other than a good programme?\". Afterall, we go to Uni to enhance our employment and career as the final objective.

[dragonflysg]

dragonflysg:

In most (not most) top Universities,

Sorry I meant \"note\"...

[violin_lover]

dragonflysg:

Was an interesting read. As a parent, the one thing I look for in any University/College to enrol my kids (who are still very young) will be the employment prospect after completing that programme. And what would contribute to that? In Singapore, it seems to be only about one thing, the brand name of the Uni. I disagree.


Why an employer chooses someone over another, or someone even gets to the interview stage out of so many CVs? Brand name helps. But there are other contributing factors, which all our Universities (including this YNU) do not have.

1 - Placement office. In Singapore, most of them are called \"Career Office\", who does mostly annual career fairs, and internships for only top students. In most (not most) top Universities, the placement office tries to get as many internships as possible for the students, and the students themselves know they jolly well get into the good internships. The internships let the employers have a 8-10 week interaction and evaluation of the prospective employee as opposed to 1-2 hour interviews. Good interns usually get higher placement success.

2 - Alumni relations. Almost unheard of in Singapore. Overseas top Unis try their best to cultivate their alumni to get both donations and network to place their students.

3 - Passion. This is more for entry to University. Local Universities do not have a clear indication of what they are looking except for grade competition. The overseas top ones are clearer. Having worked in the area of your chosen subject major gives you higher chances. This shows passion, committment, and really knowing what you are getting into. Not just going to Uni to get a degree and hopefully land a job and probably not in your subject major.

I am not saying that our Unis are no good. I just thought that when choosing a course or Uni, our young ones should ask the questions that they should ask. \"What are my employment chances? What facilities do the Uni have for me to ensure I am ahead of other Uni grads, other than a good programme?\". Afterall, we go to Uni to enhance our employment and career as the final objective.

:goodpost:

[2ppaamm]

Thought I'd post this in case we are not aware... Ahahaha... this college costs some expensive jobs and positions...


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jim-sleeper/yale-president-resigns-bu_b_1843535.html

[3Boys]

2ppaamm:

Thought I'd post this in case we are not aware... Ahahaha... this college costs some expensive jobs and positions...


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jim-sleeper/yale-president-resigns-bu_b_1843535.html

Yeah....Jim Sleeper :roll:

Wonder if anyone read his other sanctimonious post in the Huff about Singapore and the Yale-NUS college. He personifies the definition of the clueless American out to 'save' the unwashed.

[2ppaamm]

3Boys:

2ppaamm:

Thought I'd post this in case we are not aware... Ahahaha... this college costs some expensive jobs and positions...


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jim-sleeper/yale-president-resigns-bu_b_1843535.html

Yeah....Jim Sleeper :roll:

Wonder if anyone read his other sanctimonious post in the Huff about Singapore and the Yale-NUS college. He personifies the definition of the clueless American out to 'save' the unwashed.

It is always good to read from different sources and see different views. He is a Yale professor afterall, and has an 'insider' view to what's happening within Yale.

BTW, this shouldn't stop anyone from applying to Yale-NUS, please.

[2ppaamm]

Okok, put a more neutral view from Yale alumni magazine itself. http://www.yalealumnimagazine.com/blog/?p=15838

and NYT http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/31/nyregion/yale-president-richard-levin-says-he-will-step-down.html?ref=yaleuniversity
If we study the history of Singapore, we have reasons to understand why we have to be so paranoid about university students. :scared:
:siam:

And personally, I prefer to just have peace and quiet too. Just collect my salary (pocket sio, sio), why bother to fight this, fight that, might as well do some useful research.