Would Minister Heng read the thread on North Vista Pri ?
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verykiasu2010:
MOE is therefore at hotel industry level then? It still is smaller than Hyatt worldwide - within which we find consistency. For an organization the size of MOE, some smart management can ensure more consistency between branches. Like I said before, perhaps NYPS should expand so that it's branding and quality can touch more people.
Hyatt can't compare with St Regis, Comfort Inn can't compare with Hyatt, so you have normal distributions among the hotel chains. Within Hyatt you expect consistency, just like for every cohort from NYPS you expect consistency - that is why they are popular.Chenonceau:
This still tells us that quality differs from school to school.
For those who believe in normal distribution, school quality should also follow that curve? So there are a few tops... a few really bad ones that parents avoid and try to get their kids to transfer out from... and a bulk of average.
Is this acceptable and unavoidable reality?
I wonder if Hyatt Hotels or even Ichiban Sushi or Power Moves (all people driven) would accept a random distribution curve in hotel performance with such wide variance.
So, yes, the range is wide, zero star to 5 star, 6 star, 7 star, and among the 4 star and 5 star they vary; likewise among SAP schools, they vary too....though they may not be zero star
If NYPS took over MOE management and all schools became subsidiaries of NYPS, it'll still mean that quality gets to more people... and me and my DS don't have to be on the outside looking enviously at schools where T are happy and well supported by an enviable school culture.
I really can't see MOE at industry level. It's not big enough. I see it on par as a global single company operating in different locales but within the same country (Singapore)... which should make it easier to achieve some degree of consistency of quality (even though we know some variation is inevitable).
Further, the differences in quality between the hotel chains are a matter of corporate strategy targetting different market segments. They're not random in the same way IQ happens randomly in the population... and therefore subject to the bell curve. -
verykiasu2010:
Slam? Did I sound like I was slamming? If I did, it wasn't my real intention. And no, my kids are taking zero enrichment courses outside of school - in case you have also categorized me into one of those who spend on tuitions n enrichments. Besides, I always give school benefit of my own doubts, hence I never question about all these extra expenses in the first place. Perhaps it is another way of more creative teaching that the schools are adopting? And yes, it is hard cash. What's more, it is not like my child could choose to stay home and do something else - since curriculum time is being used for them.
you can always don't join the enrichment courses organised by the school and go enroll your own outside of schoolconcern2:
Yeah, have been paying lots of extra 'S$2', 'S$5', even 'S$10' since P1. E-learning lah, enrichment lah, all need to draw cash from us if there's not enough in Edusave. Never tried to say no before, although I did wonder if this is the result of 'Teach Less Learn More' - outsourcing to Computers and other Enrichment vendors.
so easy to just join the 'bandwagon' slamming \"teach less learn more\" -
MOE = MacDonalds of Education
and even among MacDonalds, the cheese burgers vary in sizes from country to country and also the number of sesame seeds on the buns are also not equal in numbers. and not every fries in every country is made from russet potatoes ...... therefore all schools in singapore even if run by NYPS will still have variances .... :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: -
verykiasu2010:
hmm...like cheating on the 60min expiry time for burger?MOE = MacDonalds of Education
and even among MacDonalds, the cheese burgers vary in sizes from country to country and also the number of sesame seeds on the buns are also not equal in numbers. and not every fries in every country is made from russet potatoes ...... therefore all schools in singapore even if run by NYPS will still have variances .... :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
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verykiasu2010:
Yeeeeeeeeeeah... I don't disagree with the fact that there will be variance... see below?MOE = MacDonalds of Education
and even among MacDonalds, the cheese burgers vary in sizes from country to country and also the number of sesame seeds on the buns are also not equal in numbers. and not every fries in every country is made from russet potatoes ...... therefore all schools in singapore even if run by NYPS will still have variances .... :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:Chenonceau:
It's just that right now, the variance is really very wide... one neighbourhood primary school is excellently run but just a few km away, the other neighbourhood primary school is to be avoided. Along the Bukit Timah stretch, one branded school is excellently run and there is another with very poor management. Same with SAP schools.... which should make it easier to achieve some degree of consistency of quality (even though we know some variation is inevitable).
The MOE should decide whether it wants service consistency or service differentiation. If service differentiation is desired, then don't rotate the Principals at all. Let each Principal mark out the school and build it up (or tear it down). Over the years, each school will develop a reputation. Some, for character education (and give a little on results)... others for stellar results... yet others for work-life balance... and then parents can choose. Then may the fittest and richest survive the competition to get into those schools lor...
At present, you choose such and such school that you believe is such and such... then the Principal changes... and everything changes. NYPS has a strong board and can thus ensure some continuity through the years. So can ACS. In many other schools, it becomes the luck of the draw. If you have a weak Principal... a good school can become mediocre in 1 or 2 years.
So... is service consistency desirable or are we shooting for service differentiation? At the moment, we're neither here nor there... My DS' school has had 3 changes of Principal in the last 6 years... The differences can be felt quite immediately. -
Chenonceau:
this I agree 100%. seen it with my own eyes (for both the good and the bad)
..........
At present, you choose such and such school that you believe is such and such... then the Principal changes... and everything changes. NYPS has a strong board and can thus ensure some continuity through the years. So can ACS. In many other schools, it becomes the luck of the draw. If you have a weak Principal... a good school can become mediocre in 1 or 2 years.
.................... -
verykiasu2010:
Sometimes we forget it is the quality of the students that make the different. If all good quality students all go to a few schools, how can these few schools fail in term of delivery of results? Well heel parents are known to move mountain and earth so that their children can enter the desired schools. Their children are provided with ideal environment (by both parents and schools) to excel academically and how can these branded schools ever fail? The cycle goes on and it just perpetuate the notion that these schools are really good.
this I agree 100%. seen it with my own eyes (for both the good and the bad)Chenonceau:
..........
At present, you choose such and such school that you believe is such and such... then the Principal changes... and everything changes. NYPS has a strong board and can thus ensure some continuity through the years. So can ACS. In many other schools, it becomes the luck of the draw. If you have a weak Principal... a good school can become mediocre in 1 or 2 years.
....................
On the other hand, the off springs of normal folks keep ended up at various neighbourhood schools and they can't compete with the branded schools because all quality students already ended up at the branded schools. To make matter worse, the really quality one at the neighbourhood schools will make it through GEP and they also ended up at the branded schools.
To me, it is the quality of the students that make the school. -
HVR:
Sometimes we forget it is the quality of the students that make the different. If all good quality students all go to a few schools, how can these few schools fail in term of delivery of results? Well heel parents are known to move mountain and earth so that their children can enter the desired schools. Their children are provided with ideal environment (by both parents and schools) to excel academically and how can these branded schools ever fail? The cycle goes on and it just perpetuate the notion that these schools are really good.
this I agree 100%. seen it with my own eyes (for both the good and the bad)verykiasu2010:
[quote=\"Chenonceau\"]
..........
At present, you choose such and such school that you believe is such and such... then the Principal changes... and everything changes. NYPS has a strong board and can thus ensure some continuity through the years. So can ACS. In many other schools, it becomes the luck of the draw. If you have a weak Principal... a good school can become mediocre in 1 or 2 years.
....................
On the other hand, the off springs of normal folks keep ended up at various neighbourhood schools and they can't compete with the branded schools because all quality students already ended up at the branded schools. To make matter worse, the really quality one at the neighbourhood schools will make it through GEP and they also ended up at the branded schools.
To me, it is the quality of the students that make the school.[/quote]In secondary school... yes. The students get in by COP. That RI/RJC produces the largest number of top A level scorers is to be expected.
In primary schools, the cohort does not differ when two schools are in the same neighbourhood and drawing from the same HDB population... and yet one is known to be good, and the other is to be avoided... and we aren't just looking at school KPIs and awards. We are looking at the overall experience recounted by Aunties as they walk home from the market. -
Chenonceau:
aiyah! we are back at the other thread liao!! :siam:In secondary school... yes. The students get in by COP. That RI/RJC produces the largest number of top A level scorers is to be expected.
In primary schools, the cohort does not differ when two schools are in the same neighbourhood and drawing from the same HDB population... and yet one is known to be good, and the other is to be avoided... and we aren't just looking at school KPIs and awards. We are looking at the overall experience recounted by Aunties as they walk home from the market. -
Nebbermind:
:?
aiyah! we are back at the other thread liao!! :siam:
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