All About Full-Time Maids
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nms1:
[/quote]Yes, you are right. Then I wonder why did MOM need to be so relaxed with work permit transfers esp. with FDWs (esp. when they are so strict with temp. EP). There should be severe penalty on both sides (employer and FDW) if the contract is broken unless both parties agree for the transfer. Then there will be certain degree of commitment but the current situation favours FDW a lot.Dnls_mum:
[quote=\"nms1\"]
FYI, EP holders are tied to their employer (unless they hold a permanent EP) which means if they lose their jobs then, in theory, they have to leave the country within 2 weeks. If they move to another employer they take the risk that the EP may be rejected.
Saying this does not mean that the whole cohort of us dislike FDW; it is just we all suffered in one way or other....... -
Dnls_mum:
I beg to disagree that their situation is no different from others. Maids are on work permit. They cannot transfer without current employers' consent, unlike Singaporeans, PRs and EP holders who can change job at their whim and fancy just by giving employers notice of resignation.nms1:
They may not be \"poaching\". If the maid has put herself up for transfer, the agency will market her out to potential employers. If they like her and they don't currently have a maid/their maid is about to leave, then they will naturally want her asap. It's the same as for any job - it's a negotiation between the employee, the current and future employer. Just because they are maids it isn't any different really. If the current employer has a problem with letting her go early, then don't.
If my maid wants a transfer, she needs to get my consent. If she goes to market herself without first getting my consent, I will not sign the work permit transfer. I will send her back. Her potential employer can always arrange for her to come again if they want to take her.
I will not want to take a maid who goes to markets herself because she wants to transfer. If she does this to someone else, she'll do it to me in future too. My principle is very simple, \"don't do unto others what you don't want others to do unto u.\" All of us who have had maids know how difficult it is to train a maid.
Thank you for a very fair and logical reply.
It saved me the trouble of asking nms1 how the maid could have asked to be put on transfer in the market without the employer's consent.
It also does not make sense to compare a maid to an employee. They are two different categories -
nms1:
I was assuming that in this case the current employer had either decided not to renew her contract or they had agreed to her being transferred. If she has gone behind her employer's back then that is a different situation.
I beg to disagree that their situation is no different from others. Maids are on work permit. They cannot transfer without current employers' consent, unlike Singaporeans, PRs and EP holders who can change job at their whim and fancy just by giving employers notice of resignation.Dnls_mum:
[quote=\"nms1\"]
They may not be \"poaching\". If the maid has put herself up for transfer, the agency will market her out to potential employers. If they like her and they don't currently have a maid/their maid is about to leave, then they will naturally want her asap. It's the same as for any job - it's a negotiation between the employee, the current and future employer. Just because they are maids it isn't any different really. If the current employer has a problem with letting her go early, then don't.
If my maid wants a transfer, she needs to get my consent. If she goes to market herself without first getting my consent, I will not sign the work permit transfer. I will send her back. Her potential employer can always arrange for her to come again if they want to take her.
I will not want to take a maid who goes to markets herself because she wants to transfer. If she does this to someone else, she'll do it to me in future too. My principle is very simple, \"don't do unto others what you don't want others to do unto u.\" All of us who have had maids know how difficult it is to train a maid.
If the current employer has agreed to it then I don't think a bit of give & take on either side does any harm.
Personally if my maid were to ask for a transfer (or go looking for one) I would allow her to go ahead but she would need to wait until I found a replacement. I wouldn't send her home unless she failed to find a new employer after the end of her contract. Maybe I'm a bit of a soft touch but I know how much it would cost her to come back and it would be unlikely that the other employer would wait for her.
FYI, EP holders are tied to their employer (unless they hold a permanent EP) which means if they lose their jobs then, in theory, they have to leave the country within 2 weeks. If they move to another employer they take the risk that the EP may be rejected.[/quote]I was asking about poaching and you were assuming that the employer gave permission?
So back to the original question on why employers do poach other employers' maid? -
They may not intentionally poach. The agent and/or the maid could be telling them that the employer has agreed to let them transfer, which does happen. Then it becomes a battle between all parties - if the new employer doesn’t think there was an issue then maybe she doesn’t find out until she has already signed the papers with the agency. The maid will want to move if she is getting a higher salary or more days off. The current employer wants to keep her.
Unless of course they have approached the maid themselves, unsolicited in which case they are definitely poachers.
Without knowing the situation, it’s a bit unfair to assume that they have maliciously poached the maid.
I know some will say that maids should be forced to finish their contracts which is a different issue. There are also genuine cases where they need to transfer - family moving, change in family situation (job loss), real incompatibility etc etc. I don’t think it’s fair to ban transfers entirely but maybe we need to relook at the penalties on maids who transfer without good reason or of their own choice.
I am a supporter of transfers as I have never taken a "new" maid. I think it is wrong that the system expects you to take someone into your home without even meeting them. I wouldn’t employ someone at work without him/her having met someone from our company in person so why should I have to do that with someone who will live under my roof? So, until that is resolved (which will probably never happen) I will continue to take transfer maids or those who come in on a social visit pass to look for a job so that I can interview in person. -
nms1:
nms1, I am curious, how many transfer maids have you had so far and how long have each of them worked for you? Since you have interviewed and eyeballed all of them before employing them, did they all meet your expectations? What were all their reasons for wanting to transfer?
I am a supporter of transfers as I have never taken a \"new\" maid. I think it is wrong that the system expects you to take someone into your home without even meeting them. I wouldn't employ someone at work without him/her having met someone from our company in person so why should I have to do that with someone who will live under my roof? So, until that is resolved (which will probably never happen) I will continue to take transfer maids or those who come in on a social visit pass to look for a job so that I can interview in person. -
Dnls_mum:
No.1 Came from husband's friend who didn't need her any more. She was with me for nearly 3 years. No complaints although a bit quiet. Left to go to Canada
nms1, I am curious, how many transfer maids have you had so far and how long have each of them worked for you? Since you have interviewed and eyeballed all of them before employing them, did they all meet your expectations? What were all their reasons for wanting to transfer?nms1:
I am a supporter of transfers as I have never taken a \"new\" maid. I think it is wrong that the system expects you to take someone into your home without even meeting them. I wouldn't employ someone at work without him/her having met someone from our company in person so why should I have to do that with someone who will live under my roof? So, until that is resolved (which will probably never happen) I will continue to take transfer maids or those who come in on a social visit pass to look for a job so that I can interview in person.
No.2 Ex-Hong Kong. Came in on social visit pass. Stayed with us for nearly 2 years then also went to Canada. Worked for us at the toughest time i.e. when my 2nd & 3rd children were born so for 6 months she had 3 children under 5 to look after. Stable, reliable, did everything we asked and had initative to do other things as well.
No.3 Transfer; been in Singapore about 4 years. Was only with me for a year as she fell pregnant
She was my favourite. Maybe a bit less organised than nos 1 & 2 but amazing with the children, great fun to have around, always smiling and happy.
No.4 Transfer; been in Singapore about 6 years. Current maid; I think she is my husband's favourite. I find her a bit nosey but she does her job well, a bit defensive but handles the kids well. Can leave her with them without any worry.
So all in all, I think they have all been good decisions - mainly made on instinct but I really don't have anything to really complain about. They all lived up to expectations and probably exceeded them in some areas. -
nms1:
No.1 Came from husband's friend who didn't need her any more. She was with me for nearly 3 years. No complaints although a bit quiet. Left to go to Canada
nms1, I am curious, how many transfer maids have you had so far and how long have each of them worked for you? Since you have interviewed and eyeballed all of them before employing them, did they all meet your expectations? What were all their reasons for wanting to transfer?Dnls_mum:
[quote=\"nms1\"]
I am a supporter of transfers as I have never taken a \"new\" maid. I think it is wrong that the system expects you to take someone into your home without even meeting them. I wouldn't employ someone at work without him/her having met someone from our company in person so why should I have to do that with someone who will live under my roof? So, until that is resolved (which will probably never happen) I will continue to take transfer maids or those who come in on a social visit pass to look for a job so that I can interview in person.
No.2 Ex-Hong Kong. Came in on social visit pass. Stayed with us for nearly 2 years then also went to Canada. Worked for us at the toughest time i.e. when my 2nd & 3rd children were born so for 6 months she had 3 children under 5 to look after. Stable, reliable, did everything we asked and had initative to do other things as well.
No.3 Transfer; been in Singapore about 4 years. Was only with me for a year as she fell pregnant She was my favourite. Maybe a bit less organised than nos 1 & 2 but amazing with the children, great fun to have around, always smiling and happy.
No.4 Transfer; been in Singapore about 6 years. Current maid; I think she is my husband's favourite. I find her a bit nosey but she does her job well, a bit defensive but handles the kids well. Can leave her with them without any worry.
So all in all, I think they have all been good decisions - mainly made on instinct but I really don't have anything to really complain about. They all lived up to expectations and probably exceeded them in some areas.[/quote]
Good for you. Looks like all stayed for just about 2 yrs but as expected, they \"transferred\" elsewhere ultimately too.
I am amazed that you are even satisfied with the one that got pregnant and she is still your favorite. You will not have difficulty with maids since you are so understanding and forgiving. Not many employers will consider that a good choice. -
nms1:
You seemed to be making a lot of assumptions in providing a response (non response) to a simple question.They may not intentionally poach. The agent and/or the maid could be telling them that the employer has agreed to let them transfer, which does happen. Then it becomes a battle between all parties - if the new employer doesn't think there was an issue then maybe she doesn't find out until she has already signed the papers with the agency. The maid will want to move if she is getting a higher salary or more days off. The current employer wants to keep her.
Unless of course they have approached the maid themselves, unsolicited in which case they are definitely poachers.
Without knowing the situation, it's a bit unfair to assume that they have maliciously poached the maid.
I know some will say that maids should be forced to finish their contracts which is a different issue. There are also genuine cases where they need to transfer - family moving, change in family situation (job loss), real incompatibility etc etc. I don't think it's fair to ban transfers entirely but maybe we need to relook at the penalties on maids who transfer without good reason or of their own choice.
I am a supporter of transfers as I have never taken a \"new\" maid. I think it is wrong that the system expects you to take someone into your home without even meeting them. I wouldn't employ someone at work without him/her having met someone from our company in person so why should I have to do that with someone who will live under my roof? So, until that is resolved (which will probably never happen) I will continue to take transfer maids or those who come in on a social visit pass to look for a job so that I can interview in person.
\"Unless of course they have approached the maid themselves, unsolicited in which case they are definitely poachers.\"
This is the context that I am asking the question. So if you have done it, it will be nice to share your reasons. If you have not done it but have friends who have done it, then it will be nice to share those reasons as I am curious to know. If you have never done it then there is really nothing that you can share. And there is nothing wrong with that too
Without knowing the situation, it's a bit unfair to assume that they have maliciously poached the maid.
Why do you have to assume that it was malicious when there were no reasons given? -
nms1:
Thank you for sharing your expectations on maids' performances and how some traits can be traded. It's all right to be a bit nosey as long as you do your job well. Handle the kids well and the maid can be a bit defensive.
No.1 Came from husband's friend who didn't need her any more. She was with me for nearly 3 years. No complaints although a bit quiet. Left to go to Canada
No.2 Ex-Hong Kong. Came in on social visit pass. Stayed with us for nearly 2 years then also went to Canada. Worked for us at the toughest time i.e. when my 2nd & 3rd children were born so for 6 months she had 3 children under 5 to look after. Stable, reliable, did everything we asked and had initative to do other things as well.
No.3 Transfer; been in Singapore about 4 years. Was only with me for a year as she fell pregnant She was my favourite. Maybe a bit less organised than nos 1 & 2 but amazing with the children, great fun to have around, always smiling and happy.
No.4 Transfer; been in Singapore about 6 years. Current maid; I think she is my husband's favourite. I find her a bit nosey but she does her job well, a bit defensive but handles the kids well. Can leave her with them without any worry.
So all in all, I think they have all been good decisions - mainly made on instinct but I really don't have anything to really complain about. They all lived up to expectations and probably exceeded them in some areas.
It seems to work fine for you although other employers think differently especially on the pregnancy issue. -
Anyone getting Indo maids at the moment or waiting for May?
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