Primary school maths: A vicious circle (from TODAY May 8)
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Dear Edureach,
I do believe that our education system is spiraling out of control. You may say that parents place an over emphasis on PSLE, but I think it is so because PSLE results, now more than ever before, ever since the IP was introduced, gives some the privilege to skip the ‘O’ Level exams. It’s pretty much like offering a license to drive without needing to prove that you can drive, because your earlier tests show that you should not have a problem doing so. MOE itself describes on its website that IP students are clearly university bound, whilst those who do not make the cut to IP, well, still have to prove they are university bound, by clearing another hurdle of exams, the 'O’s. It is therefore not surprising that parents now place an increased emphasis on the PSLE, because of the huge differentiation in experience in IP vs the secondary route. I don’t think people generally have an issue with the IP per se, because there is nothing wrong with catering to the brightest people in our society. Why wouldn’t we want to nurture them? The problem is these people that we have qualified as bright throughout PSLE scores are in all likelihood having access to one of the following:
(1) studying in a branded school, well-known for pushing hard and churning huge quantities of top PSLE scorers
(2) good quality outside tuition and/or
(3) smart parents who are resourceful enough to gather the information required to coach the kids to attain a good PSLE score.
It is evident those who don’t have access to any of the 3, have the odds stacked highly against them. True, you may find 1, or 2, or even 10 who don’t have any of the 3 and still make it. But to put things in perspective, that probability is very, very slim.
If anything, this is also the reason why parents end up clamoring after branded schools, because kids are pushed and exposed from the get-go, which is like a first-mover advantage, vs one who reacts only when the tide comes. GIven the huge gap to be filled, time may not be on their side.
I have a kid in P2, who never had a day of tuition, or academic enrichment, and I am truly beginning to understand why so many others his age were ‘enriching’ themselves in every possible way since they were 3 or 4.
MOE’s predictable stance throughout all this feedback only serves to send more to tuition and enrichment centers, maybe starting now at age 2? And even more parents queuing up for branded schools. -
Let me just add my 2 cents worth.
Kids who rise above the system and do well either:
1. Are naturally of high ability and gifted and don’t need tuition
2. Have parents who have deep pockets to stay near branded schools (I know of many who pay top $ to move within 1km of the school of their choice)
3. Have parents (even same parents as point 2) who can afford to pay tutors to ensure that they stay in the branded schools.
4. Have parents who pay tutors to ensure that though they are in neighbourhood schools they are able to catch up with those kids in branded schools.
5, Have smart parents to guide them.
Kids who are struggling in the system either:
1. Have low ability and not gifted
2. Do not have rich parents to move near branded schools
3. Have parents (probably the same parents as point 2) who cannot afford to pay tutors to keep up with their peers in branded schools (if they are lucky to get in and risk being squeezed out).
4. cannot even cope with what is taught in neighbourhood schools and their parents cannot afford to pay tutors to help them
5. Don’t have smart parents to guide them.
All schools are not the same. If they are, why are most, if not all, parents fighting tooth and nail to get their kids into branded schools every year? We don’t have to spell out what these schools offer that other schools lack. A child in a neighbourhood school has a lower chance of doing well enough in the PSLE to move on to a branded secondary. Subsequently, the chances of getting into a top JC is lowered if he/she is posted to a neighbourhood secondary school. I bet that all parents already have this figured out. PSLE has been the yardstick for admission to secondary schools. I took it donkey years ago. My parents were not bothered with how well I would do. Their only concern was that I could pass and get into a secondary school. We as parents now are raising issues cos we are educated and have higher expectations for our kids than our parents. MOE also know this, thus has been raising the bar. The problem is, how high does MOE think our kids can jump? -
mamemo:
:scratchhead: What Chen said is TRUE!! It really was/is a cat!Nebbermind:
[quote=\"Chenonceau\"]
Blinkymummy is the mummy of a cat called Blinky.
Yup, I know...
I was laughing at the irony of someone who does not have kids to write this blogpost.
From her intro, she sounds like a scholar though...[/quote]She sounds immature to me, n her definition of 'having a childhood' is ridiculous.. -
tutormum :goodpost:
My friend's dd is now struggling with PSLE, she is not in the first 5 points that tutormum mentioned but her dd is in a branded school. I think her dd will have a better chance at a not-so-famous school but in the top few classes, as she is quite smart but lack of motivation. I feel she probably belongs to those Big Fish type and will perform better in a small pond. -
tutormum:
I agree with most of your post... except that I wanna point out that in a system where teaching quality is patchy across schools, even kids of high ability like my DS won't make it good.Let me just add my 2 cents worth.
Kids who rise above the system and do well either:
1. Are naturally of high ability and gifted and don't need tuition
...
Kids who are struggling in the system either:
1. Have low ability and not gifted
I am Chinese illiterate. I am a Math Idiot. My knowledge of the hard sciences is rudimentary. All I did was to pick high quality resources for each of these subjects and my DS did the rest. I didn't ever actually explain anything. He had the reading materials and he learnt.
Sadly, the textbook is insufficient for him to learn even the basics on his own... let alone pass exams with questions set from stuff not taught and nowhere to be found documented in the few pages of school notes he received.
Low ability students can do very well indeed given enough tuition by pushy parents from a young age. The problem arises when the system mis-classes low ability as high ability simply because these have access to tuition... and misclasses high ability as low ability those without access to tuition.
If I had not started my 1-person library-school last year, I would never have found out that my DS is high ability. My Boy skimmed Onsponge in ONE WEEK... did 2 sums from each sub-chapter... and that was enough to help him ace his exam. Who would have known if I had not myself begun to teach him? -
Chenonceau:
I agree with most of your post (and many many more in your many other posts). But I do not understand Low ability students can do very well indeed given enough tuition by pushy parents from a young age.
I agree with most of your post... except that I wanna point out that in a system where teaching quality is patchy across schools, even kids of high ability like my DS won't make it good.tutormum:
Let me just add my 2 cents worth.
Kids who rise above the system and do well either:
1. Are naturally of high ability and gifted and don't need tuition
...
Kids who are struggling in the system either:
1. Have low ability and not gifted
I am Chinese illiterate. I am a Math Idiot. My knowledge of the hard sciences is rudimentary. All I did was to pick high quality resources for each of these subjects and my DS did the rest. I didn't ever actually explain anything. He had the reading materials and he learnt.
Sadly, the textbook is insufficient for him to learn even the basics on his own... let alone pass exams with questions set from stuff not taught and nowhere to be found documented in the few pages of school notes he received.
Low ability students can do very well indeed given enough tuition by pushy parents from a young age. The problem arises when the system mis-classes low ability as high ability simply because these have access to tuition... and misclasses high ability as low ability those without access to tuition.
I know many parents (even teachers) might not agree with this. I am a firm believer that majority of the kids are intellect equals, plus or minus an insignificant band. Some may be faster or slower in certain areas/ subjects, but in general, given the right environment and nurture, they can excel. I do not agree with streaming at such a young age (after P2). I know the \"pros\" of streaming as advocated by MOE and many parents. But I wonder if they know the price of the \"cons\" to label the majority of the kids (Vs the top 2 classes) as non HA.
I like kids since I was a teenager. I observe them closely when I spend time with them. Many of them are bright. Their academic results vary. It's not because they are \"low ability\". They need motivation. They need the right support and guidance. Most of them can do well in academics ... if we have the right system. But we have \"quotas\" for IP, Express, NA, NT, ... so there will be sacrifices along the way ... and these children will also believe they are \"low ability\" as classified by the system.
Is that what you meant by \"Low ability students can do very well indeed given enough tuition by pushy parents from a young age.\"? when they are actually not \"low ability\" to begin with?
I feel sad to read (and media praising) top PSLE scholars attending numerous tuition/ enrichment, putting in 6 - 7 hours daily after school of hard work, doing 50 (or 100) assessment books. I never thought of them as low or high ability, I just feel sad but hope that their life changes after PSLE. More activities beyond classes and home studying. Otherwise, even if they \"suceed\" in life, they are pretty out of touch with the real world except their own social circle. Maybe that is why we have certain officials who could never understand the people's concern ... that it needs a GE before voices are being heard and understood.
I respect and support your valuable contributions in this forum! I am your fan!!! Just want to clarify that statement. But we certainly can disagree on certain things and still like and support each other :snuggles: -
oxyleo:
:goodpost:Dear Edureach,
I do believe that our education system is spiraling out of control. You may say that parents place an over emphasis on PSLE, but I think it is so because PSLE results, now more than ever before, ever since the IP was introduced, gives some the privilege to skip the 'O' Level exams. It's pretty much like offering a license to drive without needing to prove that you can drive, because your earlier tests show that you should not have a problem doing so. MOE itself describes on its website that IP students are clearly university bound, whilst those who do not make the cut to IP, well, still have to prove they are university bound, by clearing another hurdle of exams, the 'O's. It is therefore not surprising that parents now place an increased emphasis on the PSLE, because of the huge differentiation in experience in IP vs the secondary route. I don't think people generally have an issue with the IP per se, because there is nothing wrong with catering to the brightest people in our society. Why wouldn't we want to nurture them? The problem is these people that we have qualified as bright throughout PSLE scores are in all likelihood having access to one of the following:
(1) studying in a branded school, well-known for pushing hard and churning huge quantities of top PSLE scorers
(2) good quality outside tuition and/or
(3) smart parents who are resourceful enough to gather the information required to coach the kids to attain a good PSLE score.
It is evident those who don't have access to any of the 3, have the odds stacked highly against them. True, you may find 1, or 2, or even 10 who don't have any of the 3 and still make it. But to put things in perspective, that probability is very, very slim.
If anything, this is also the reason why parents end up clamoring after branded schools, because kids are pushed and exposed from the get-go, which is like a first-mover advantage, vs one who reacts only when the tide comes. GIven the huge gap to be filled, time may not be on their side.
I have a kid in P2, who never had a day of tuition, or academic enrichment, and I am truly beginning to understand why so many others his age were 'enriching' themselves in every possible way since they were 3 or 4.
MOE's predictable stance throughout all this feedback only serves to send more to tuition and enrichment centers, maybe starting now at age 2? And even more parents queuing up for branded schools.
Welcome to KSP!
My DS is in P2 too
I can't agree more with the sentences in bold.
I think the Education Minister's reply (can't remember if it's the current minister or his predecessor) is \"we can't stop parents from sending kids to tuition\". Tuition exists for decades and it's certainly useful for certain kids under certain circumstances ... but the majority of kids having tuition? I will not be surprised if it's >90%. Even for the minority without tuition, how many of these kids are coached by parents at home?
When my PS just started P1, we had a gathering with his K2 classmates parents to continue their bond even though they are now in separate schools. I had not even heard of \"Berries\", \"Learning Lab\", .... until then.
Then a close friend called me ... her kid in P1 at a branded school ... the teacher said \"your kid is slow in Maths and I am concerned ... are you worried?\" (it was only P1 Term 1). :scared: They kept getting calls from the teacher. Her kid is having tuition now.
Not all schools are like that. I know my DS school grouped the slow learners (during school hours) so that they attend another class with a smaller ratio (Learning Support Programme) and they do it quietly. I know it because my DS came home one day and told me these few kids always bring back gifts from those classes
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One of the cat that tutormum missed is that some kids just needed the extra time…they are not lacking in intelligence but just slower in digesting some groups of information. I had classmates who could not adapt to the pure science curriculum initially. These people may not be the very top of the cohort but still what I wld consider HA in many areas. Eventually they still got their As without tuition coz life was not so crowded with activities those days. But these days, we seem to be rushing the kids…we want them to do alot more things, both academic or non academic than we did last time in the same amt of time.
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Hi there. Thanks for the lovely welcome. Indeed, I fully empathize with your feelings. Many, many parents, and zealous grandparents asked me what classes my kid was attending in kindergarten, and honestly, most of them looked very surprised when I said he only attended Kindermusik (the hop around, sing, dance, play a variety of instruments sort) and swimming ( starting 6 yrs). Most of them were in Kumon, berries, mind champs, shichida and so on, and one or two I know in K2 was doing Grade 3 piano and violin. My friend and I joked that they must have either thought I was lying, or simply out of touch with the real world, out of their league. My son is in a non-branded school (not to mention I had weird looks for that as well, because most were eyeing the top ones), and thankfully he had wonderful teachers that helped him adapt in P1, despite him probably being one of the few in his cohort who, not having attended tuition before, didn’t quite realize what was coming for him. Honestly, neither did I. Well-meaning friends and teachers have cautioned me that I need to be prepared for the curves each year or every 1/2 yearly, because the curves aren’t gradual. They are pretty steep. At themoment, I am still hanging on to my believe that my child should not have tuition unless he needs it, as I’m not prepared to trade his soul and mine if the sacrifice of his time means taking the child out of him. I’m not too eager to transform him into a warrior for the future workplace just yet, because I believe there is a right time for everything. I WAS confident I was right, but now, I must say it takes even more courage than before to continue believing I am right
especially when everyone else seems headed the other way. And the system is rewarding the early starters no doubt. -
coast:
I agree.
I agree with most of your post (and many many more in your many other posts). But I do not understand Low ability students can do very well indeed given enough tuition by pushy parents from a young age.
I know many parents (even teachers) might not agree with this. I am a firm believer that majority of the kids are intellect equals, plus or minus an insignificant band. Some may be faster or slower in certain areas/ subjects, but in general, given the right environment and nurture, they can excel.
http://petunialee.blogspot.com/2012/01/10000-hour-rule-of-practice.htmlcoast:
I agree.I do not agree with streaming at such a young age (after P2). I know the \"pros\" of streaming as advocated by MOE and many parents. But I wonder if they know the price of the \"cons\" to label the majority of the kids (Vs the top 2 classes) as non HA.
coast:
I agree.I like kids since I was a teenager. I observe them closely when I spend time with them. Many of them are bright. Their academic results vary. It's not because they are \"low ability\". They need motivation. They need the right support and guidance. Most of them can do well in academics ... if we have the right system. But we have \"quotas\" for IP, Express, NA, NT, ... so there will be sacrifices along the way ... and these children will also believe they are \"low ability\" as classified by the system.
coast:
Maybe it is my fault to have used the words \"low ability\". The truly low ability with subnormal IQ are unlikely to be mis-classified a high ability. What I should have written is that average ability kids can be misclassified as high ability if they have pushy parents.Is that what you meant by \"Low ability students can do very well indeed given enough tuition by pushy parents from a young age.\"? when they are actually not \"low ability\" to begin with?
And high ability kids (without tuition) can misclassified as average... and then, BECAUSE we DIFFERENTIATE EARLY and we make STARK DIFFERENCES in quality of education between HA and Average, we waste true talent because some truly high ability kids are NOT getting the kind of challenge they can cope with... whilst other average but over-tuitioned kids do.
I did not advocate streaming. I merely pointed out that in the current streaming system, there are TOO MANY errors in classification. In essence, I imply that streaming so early is NOT good. So I agree with you.
I used the term \"low ability\" to reflect the vocabulary used by one's dialogue partner is one of the rules of good communication. Clearly, I mis-applied a rule here. It is my fault.coast:
I agree.I feel sad to read (and media praising) top PSLE scholars attending numerous tuition/ enrichment, putting in 6 - 7 hours daily after school of hard work, doing 50 (or 100) assessment books. I never thought of them as low or high ability, I just feel sad but hope that their life changes after PSLE. More activities beyond classes and home studying. Otherwise, even if they \"suceed\" in life, they are pretty out of touch with the real world except their own social circle. Maybe that is why we have certain officials who could never understand the people's concern ... that it needs a GE before voices are being heard and understood.
coast:
I hope I have clarified?I respect and support your valuable contributions in this forum! I am your fan!!! Just want to clarify that statement. But we certainly can disagree on certain things and still like and support each other :snuggles:
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