Primary school maths: A vicious circle (from TODAY May 8)
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sunflower:
Wealth forms only part of the equation...[/quote]Well, it forms a Heavily Weighted part of the equation at the moment...
It translates into wealth. These people have the time to spare volunteering... and the money to afford the properties.Chenonceau:
[quote=\"sunflower\"]
If one is willing to do 80 or more hours of volunteering just to get into phase 2B, or getting the child from one end of Singapore to the other end (where the school is located), or is willing to spend millions to get a property close to the school, and all these do not translate into more kiasu, I do not know what is. -
Chenonceau:
You have a talent for insightful analogies. This is an amazing one.oxyleo:
This is really my guess only, until such time that we can ever get anything more detailed from MOE -
MOE's claim that PSLE standards has not risen is based on the output of the candidates i.e. the PSLE results. If results are consistent year after year, number of A*'s, A's, B's etc, they can say there is no conclusive evidence to show that standards have risen relative to the standards of the children taking the exam.
Think of PSLE akin to a beauty contest. 20 years ago, contestant of Miss Universe would mostly have strutted the stage in their mostly natural form. And judges would have judged them based on the same set of criteria. Poise, Vital statistics, How they answer questions etc.
Imagine it now today, same beauty contest, same criteria, same judgement on poise, vital statistics, How they answer questions etc. Only difference is now, the contestants are allowed to participate even if they have had cosmetic surgery (in a sense like what extra \"enrichment\" class seek to do) before. One can only imagine how standards of the contestants would have risen. If one is allowed to do it, again it is unlikely most, if not all will start to do it.
When we ask the pageant organizers if standards of judging have gone up, they will likely say No. Same criteria, same structure of contest, i.e. bikini round, evening gown round, question and answer round etc. Technically, they are not wrong to say No, but they forgot that they did \"allow\" the situation where cosmetic surgery is now allowed, thereby artificially increasing the standards overall for everyone.
Hahaha! Thanks Chen. I hope that doesn't make me like Moses Lim aka Tan Ah Teck in that comedy where he always goes \"A long, long, time ago... in the Southern Province in China...\" and everyone tries to scamper away. :celebrate: :celebrate:
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Chenonceau:
Indeed, I agree with Chen. Please see my add-ons in blue.
It's ok to take time to consider. Meanwhile, communicate that this is happening. Do not communicate...sunflower:
Guess now they've learnt their lessons? So they now need to take long long to decide before pushing out any changes. 
(1) We are world class We are only so because we not only attend school, but also extra lessons outside of school, through tuition and enrichment classes. So the \"We\" does not reflect just \"MOE\" alone, but rather \"MOE and its esteemed partners, the tuition and enrichment centers\"
(2) All schools are good Indeed, this one absolutely gets my goat. No doubt, a school is a school, only as a car is a car. But I wouldn't dare say a BMW is a CherryQ without risking stares of bewilderment! Ask any lady who loves handbags if a Hermes Birkin is an LV, or a Bonia bag. Seriously, they are all the same????
(3) PSLE standards have not gone up over the years Yes, only MOE knows the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, because it is highly guarded. We parents only see a small snapshot of it when our children take the PSLE exam.
(4) Textbooks are lousy because we have decentralized the curriculum We need regular reviews around this and the supporting worksheets that schools need as a result of this.
(5) Parents are to blame for the tuition phenomenon Parents have bought into the need for tuition. But they are not Masters of their own destiny. We are all interlinked in this system.
(6) Parents expect more of MOE than it can deliver
It's ok to take time to consider. But do you know, from what they've been telling us that they're considering our feedback or are they just busy defending themselves and their past decisions? -
Whatever MOE eventually deems fit as a next step, I can only hope it does not result in shoving more work down the throats of teachers.
I wish to reiterate that from my experience with teachers, I am touched by many for their humility, energy and dedication. They are stuck between a rock and a hard place because they are the first point of contact with children and parents, and are also on the payroll of the MOE, making MOE their boss. Teachers therefore pretty much need to try to adapt to feedback from parents, children’s learning styles and problems, and react to new policies rolled out by the MOE. In other words, they implement and deliver, whatever someone up the food chain researches and gets approved. They need to go for professional training, monitor CCAs, mark daily work, attend meetings, conduct zonal workshops etc. Somewhere along the way, someone up the food chain has forgotten these teachers have families, have older folks and younger ones to take care of too at home, and that the amount of work they are asked to do assumes they have more than 12 work hours a day.
In the Corporate World, the attrition rate of staff typically boils down to several things: Pay, incentives, work culture etc. I believe MOE has tried to tweak salaries and offered better advancement for high performing teachers. That is good. But in the Corporate World, a team leader or boss is typically also assessed on how well he/ she can retain their staff. If members of a team are leaving at alarming rates, it does beg the question as to how well-aligned team leader and team member are in terms of what they are expected to deliver and how well they can deliver it.
I hope MOE can reflect upon this, and realize that if a teacher does not seem to deliver what you have asked him/her to do, the solution may not just be to keep sending him/ her for training. It may not even be something doable to begin with.
Revisiting the drawing board about its policies should not be viewed as a sign of weakness on the part of MOE. If anything, I see it as a sign of great strength and humility, which are important principles in Public Service. MOE will gain more supporters and respect during the course. -
oxyleo:
:goodpost:Whatever MOE eventually deems fit as a next step, I can only hope it does not result in shoving more work down the throats of teachers.
I wish to reiterate that from my experience with teachers, I am touched by many for their humility, energy and dedication. They are stuck between a rock and a hard place because they are the first point of contact with children and parents, and are also on the payroll of the MOE, making MOE their boss. Teachers therefore pretty much need to try to adapt to feedback from parents, children's learning styles and problems, and react to new policies rolled out by the MOE. In other words, they implement and deliver, whatever someone up the food chain researches and gets approved. They need to go for professional training, monitor CCAs, mark daily work, attend meetings, conduct zonal workshops etc. Somewhere along the way, someone up the food chain has forgotten these teachers have families, have older folks and younger ones to take care of too at home, and that the amount of work they are asked to do assumes they have more than 12 work hours a day.
In the Corporate World, the attrition rate of staff typically boils down to several things: Pay, incentives, work culture etc. I believe MOE has tried to tweak salaries and offered better advancement for high performing teachers. That is good. But in the Corporate World, a team leader or boss is typically also assessed on how well he/ she can retain their staff. If members of a team are leaving at alarming rates, it does beg the question as to how well-aligned team leader and team member are in terms of what they are expected to deliver and how well they can deliver it.
I hope MOE can reflect upon this, and realize that if a teacher does not seem to deliver what you have asked him/her to do, the solution may not just be to keep sending him/ her for training. It may not even be something doable to begin with.
Revisiting the drawing board about its policies should not be viewed as a sign of weakness on the part of MOE. If anything, I see it as a sign of great strength and humility, which are important principles in Public Service. MOE will gain more supporters and respect during the course.
Yes. MOE... reach out and help us. We need you. -
sunflower:
Chenonceau:
[quote=\"sunflower\"]In any change of policy, the ministries, and in this case, the MOE would have to decide on the best course of action by thinking through carefully, weighing the pros and cons as well as considering all aspects as it’ll impact its citizens. I don’t think they want to implement something hastily only to later discover costly implications that lead to more problems, like what’s happening now with all those policies initiated by MBT.
They should have thought through TLLM before they implemented it then... Because, with TLLM they now ..
(1) Have to pretend education is largely free AND
(2) Cannot manage to teach adequately to their own syllabus Guess now they've learnt their lessons? So they now need to take long long to decide before pushing out any changes. [/quote]
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/player/p00s473l
This link snapshots the state of the art thinking on whether or not to give monetary incentives for character development. It seems MOE did not take long enough to consider this properly. So, I dunno what is taking them so long to consider the case for better textbooks and an online teacher database... -
Chenonceau:
:hugs:
Yes. MOE... reach out and help us. We need you.
All the best ~
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Intermezzo:
:love:
:hugs:Chenonceau:
Yes. MOE... reach out and help us. We need you.
All the best ~ -
oxyleo:
Hi oxyleo,
Hi Coast,coast:
I think MOE's stand is that the level of difficulty has not increased over the years for PSLE and NOT school exams.
Frankly, I do believe (until proven wrong) that PSLE standard is reasonable and the level of difficulty has not increased over the years. But MOE is NOT publishing the EXACT PSLE past years' papers to prove its stand.
http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35434
The question of PSLE standards is indeed a complex one to answer.
This is really my guess only, until such time that we can ever get anything more detailed from MOE -
MOE's claim that PSLE standards has not risen is based on the output of the candidates i.e. the PSLE results. If results are consistent year after year, number of A*'s, A's, B's etc, they can say there is no conclusive evidence to show that standards have risen relative to the standards of the children taking the exam.
I have seen quite a number of your posts. I agree with most of your views and am really glad to see you on board here. :rahrah: Btw, our kids are both in P2.
I doubt that MOE will use moderated grades (A*, A, …) of the candidates to justify this case. To me, moderated grades are like quotas for IP, Express, NA, NT, … etc where unless there are major changes (which would be announced and likely debated in Parliament), the % is more or less the same each year. For PSLE, it has been 40++ % for A*/A for Eng, Maths and Sci & 80++% A*/A for Chi these few years.
I just found this SEAB reply from the internet:-
We appreciate the concerns of parents and would like to take this
opportunity to explain that the Singapore Examinations and Assessment
Board (SEAB) has in place a careful and rigorous process to ensure that
PSLE papers have an appropriate balance of easier and more difficult
questions, and are comparable in standard to those of previous years.
The panel responsible for developing the Mathematics paper
comprises experienced school teachers, subject specialists from the Ministry
Of Education and assessment specialists from SEAB. The panel members
are well-versed with the Mathematics syllabus and with what students of
different abilities can do.
You can read more from the link below
http://www.seab.gov.sg/publicCommunications/mediaReplies/PSLE_TODAY_Forum_Reply_20071015.pdf
I believe SEAB's stand remains the same even though the above article is dated 2007. But what I do not understand is … since SEAB has a careful and rigorous process to ensure that PSLE papers have an appropriate balance of easier and more difficult
questions, and are comparable in standard to those of previous years …
WHY NOT publish the EXACT PSLE past years’ papers? If there is any reason that the papers cannot be published, then at least explain the rationale of that decision to important stakeholders like parents.
http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35434 -
sunflower:
Hi sunflower,I’ve basically poured out my views on pg 41 regarding the education system in Singapore. I’m actually hoping for a complete overhaul to the whole education system, which includes teacher training and recruitment.
I’m not looking for measures for MOE to adopt so as to make the current education system works.
I’ve said my piece and would probably have no more time to engage in further discussions.
All the best to Chenonceau on your mission and I wish you well.
Cheers!
:celebrate:
Thank you for responding to my earlier post.
I agree with ALL your 4 points on pg 41.
With MOE's silence on many issues raised, even those from the national newspapers, I have lowered my expectations and just hope that they can introduce some simple measures like publishing the EXACT PSLE past years' papers and enforcing quality teaching materials across all schools/ classes.
Really appreciate your efforts. I have certainly gained from your posts here. Hope to see you here again soon
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