Primary school maths: A vicious circle (from TODAY May 8)
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oxyleo:
Parents won't need to do this if the MOE schools pulled their weight. If DS' school taught well according to the methods required for TLLM, I won't have to homeschool him... only to discover that his Teachers CAN'T handle TLLM... and his school does not have the curricular resources to support the Teachers in TLLM efforts.I forgot to add that it is typically after the trouble-shooting that the course of medicine is decided:
i.e.
(i) Quantity and Quality of Tuition;
(ii) Parent gets heavily involved, researches material and teaches kid himself;
(ii) Apply both (i) and (ii).
In situations where parents are unable to come to a clear conclusion after trouble-shooting, they try everything they possibly can. More tuition, or change tuition centre, more assessment book/ exam paper practice, parents teach themselves so they can teach their kid, parents join forums like KSP to share problems and get help etc..
Hence, tuition is a necessity in today's education landscape because tuition centres CAN somehow manage the TLLM syllabus better than schools. Why? -
phtthp:
this is so wrong. Algebra can be used to solve a large number of problems. Any problems that can be solved using Modelling can be solved using Algebra. It is still very relevant today. The question is which is faster for solving certain problems. Frankly, the difference in time is not all that significant compared to the understanding of students using different approaches.Today, 5 June 2012
A call to relearn how we teach our children
SINGAPORE:
Citing himself as an example, Mr Heng said that using the algebra method which he is familiar with might no longer be as relevant in solving some math problems today.
.......phtthp:
and what teaching methods have changed in the past 20 to 30 years ? does the Modelling method constitute a change in teaching methods ?Said Mr Heng: \"The question for us really is: Do we want to stick to syllabus and teaching methods that we are used to as parents when we were students 20 to 30 years ago, or should we watch our students master the skills that are needed for the next 20 to 30 years of their life?\"
No, the Modelling method is just a technique in solving maths problems. This technique was necessary because complex abstract problems needed to be solved by students not familiar with abstract mathematical tools, ie. algebra.
Teaching methods have not changed in the past 20 to 30 years. There was a call to teach less, learn more. That vision has yet to be executed on a mass level. That would consitute a change in teaching methods.
There's a lot of call for productivity at the national level. What about productivity in the educational industry? Learn more, in less time. I still haven't seen this happening. Vision without execution, is just pointless. If MOE can get students to learn more in less time, ie. by not mugging 8 hours a day, then productivity has increased. Why is there no call for productivity in the education sector ?phtthp:
alright, so where are the forums and sessions where parents can get feeback from MOE ? there's no point in having monologues amongst parents if there's no feedback from the ministry. How is MOE listening to parents and working on our suggestions ?He outlined ongoing efforts, including sessions for parents to provide feedback and share experiences.
..... -
A mother whose P5 child failed every subject in SA1 last month comes to me for Motivation Coaching (i.e., I teach the Mother how to motivate the child to stay engaged on all the subjects she is weak in… in this case… it is EVERY subject). As the coaching relationship evolved in the past 4 weeks, I realize that I am handholding the Mother on BOTH
- motivation strategies
- teaching strategies consistent with TLLM
If the school taught effectively, why would the Mother need to learn TLLM from me? -
cimman:
:goodpost: We are not seeing effective teaching methods on the ground. It all exists in a few schools AND in the minds of MOE senior management.
Teaching methods have not changed in the past 20 to 30 years. There was a call to teach less, learn more. That vision has yet to be executed on a mass level. That would consitute a change in teaching methods.
There's a lot of call for productivity at the national level. What about productivity in the educational industry? Learn more, in less time. I still haven't seen this happening. Vision without execution, is just pointless. If MOE can get students to learn more in less time, ie. by not mugging 8 hours a day, then productivity has increased. Why is there no call for productivity in the education sector ? -
There are forums and feedback sessions, and they're advertised on Facebook, etc. http://www.facebook.com/moesingapore
I attended one for parents with soon-to-be P1 students. However, these are forums within specific schools, and the speakers are principals, teachers and parent volunteer (who painted too relaxed a picture for lower primary, IMO). What we want are dialogue sessions with MOE HQ staff who set the policies. From the MOE FB page, there are dialogues for these purposes, however, they're only open to \"select parents\" (see their FB page posting after the fact). Very frustrating. Who are these selected parents, anyway? -
Chenonceau:
The more I read about HSK's comments, the more infuriated I become. It now takes an entire village to teach a child primary school maths!!!! This piece of data will tell you the level of difficulty for Maths have become too high, way beyond the reach of the the average child.
Parents won't need to do this if the MOE schools pulled their weight. If DS' school taught well according to the methods required for TLLM, I won't have to homeschool him... only to discover that his Teachers CAN'T handle TLLM... and his school does not have the curricular resources to support the Teachers in TLLM efforts.oxyleo:
I forgot to add that it is typically after the trouble-shooting that the course of medicine is decided:
i.e.
(i) Quantity and Quality of Tuition;
(ii) Parent gets heavily involved, researches material and teaches kid himself;
(ii) Apply both (i) and (ii).
In situations where parents are unable to come to a clear conclusion after trouble-shooting, they try everything they possibly can. More tuition, or change tuition centre, more assessment book/ exam paper practice, parents teach themselves so they can teach their kid, parents join forums like KSP to share problems and get help etc..
Hence, tuition is a necessity in today's education landscape because tuition centres CAN somehow manage the TLLM syllabus better than schools. Why?
I don't believe it's just a matter of updating parents on teaching methodology. It's not about whether it's algebra or modelling. The way problem sums are phrased require very high level of cognitive maturity. Surely, 20 years doesn't mean our children's brains have evolved at such an accelerated level that they can now cope with higher levels of complexity??!! Come on, Minister!! There is something seriously wrong when parents need to attend workshops just to help with their kids' homework. There's something seriously wrong when whole classes fail maths. These people are in denial.
Just in the past month, I've had conversations with 3 ex-primary school teachers who just left service who admitted that the maths level of difficulty have spiralled out of control. They were commenting that schools seem to be competing to see who can set the most difficult Maths paper. Sometimes, these teachers themselves take 30mins to solve one of these difficult problem sums. Sometimes, they have to brainstorm with one another to solve a difficult question. Can you imagine how our kids feel when confronted with such sums? -
Chenonceau:
:goodpost: :udawoman: You really :spank: :spank: :pokeeye: :pokeeye:
:goodpost:oxyleo:
I apologize for writing intermittently. Am in between of doing other things.
Ok, so naturally, we will all ask, so why is there this problem parents are facing wrt trouble-shooting our kids' performance?
I think it is because there is currently a lack of basic uniformity between schools. Schools today are given free rein to decide many things, including how they test, how they stream (as in whether they want to do so earlier), how they conduct their PV schemes etc. They are given broad guidelines to follow. The rest is pretty much free for all.
So... We end up with some schools streaming ahead of other schools, testing ahead of other schools, teaching beyond other schools, on a per cohort level. So a parent with twins for eg, could end up very confused, if he puts 2 kids in different schools - Dissimilar experiences. Is it because the kids are different? Sure, maybe. But is it possibly also because the schools are run differently? Test differently? Teach at varying speeds? Absolutely!
So...parents throw resources in to pre-empt problems or attempt to fix discovered problems. And they will be frustrated because they are not sure what exactly they are fixing. There are currently too many variables.
A step in the right direction would be to put some basic uniformity back into the schools. Through textbooks with sufficient content, standardized school teaching materials, shared resources between schools etc.
Imagine if the police force were to conduct itself like how schools are today? police post 1 does not share/ discuss/ solve crime investigation problems together with other branches just because it isn't required of in their KPI? if u need help and walk into a police post far from where you stay and they tell u, sorry, please seek help from your own police post serving ur vicinity.
Hmm...
I agree that the TLLM syllabus requires evolved ways of teaching. That HSK has noted this is good. However, what he has stopped short of saying is that...
(1) too many school teachers don't know how to teach the TLLM syllabus (and TLLM has been around for so many years that you would think schools and teachers would have figured it out by now)
(2) classes are too large for these new techniques of teaching
(3) teachers don't have enough high quality curricular resources to use in implementing these evolved ways of teaching
We have an MOE so full of pride that there is no way it can face its own weaknesses and acknowledge them as a first step to moving ahead. Instead, this is another version of... \"It's parents fault/problem...\"
This time, we parents don't know how to teach. If MOE schools could teach so well, why are whole classes still failing exams? If MOE schools teach so innovatively (and parents are clueless how to teach), why are HSK's kids reportedly attending TLL (can someone confirm this?)... where teaching pedagogy is quite traditional really... with copious notes and detailed marking.
The only difference is that TLL has small classes that allow individualized feedback.
There is no way we can out-argue a very intelligent MOE intent on wiggling this way and that to prove that it is world class and ahead of the curve... and that since it is itself ahead of the curve, it is parents who don't measure up because they are either...
(1) kiasu OR
(2) don't have a clue how to teach to the needs of the future
Really? Do MOE's teachers know better how to? Do MOE processes allow for small class sizes? If so, why are so many children learning what they need to know to pass exams OUTSIDE of school? Student-centric and values-driven? How to be student-centric when classes are 40 strong? How to be values-driven when KPIs are all about academic passes and distinctions and CCA awards?
Student-centric and values-driven? Big words. Nice marketing. Catchy PR. Delivery on the ground? Nothing.
Teaching to future needs... really? How to do that when teachers have no access to high quality curricular resources? How to do that when kids have no access to high quality curricular resources (if textbooks are lousy, then get rid of them and replace with a store of online engaging resources and bibliography that CAN replace textbooks... or notes). Ensure that guidance towards these resources is consistent across schools. -
cimman:
:goodpost: What he had said was merely trying to appease the parents. :sad: Are we parents really that stupid? If we are, then we would have just left the teaching to the schools instead of hunting high and low for tutors to teach our children. :faint: Or does the problem lies with us, parents. We shouldn't have let our kiasium get the better of us and create such problems. :spank: :razz:
this is so wrong. Algebra can be used to solve a large number of problems. Any problems that can be solved using Modelling can be solved using Algebra. It is still very relevant today. The question is which is faster for solving certain problems. Frankly, the difference in time is not all that significant compared to the understanding of students using different approaches.phtthp:
Today, 5 June 2012
A call to relearn how we teach our children
SINGAPORE:
Citing himself as an example, Mr Heng said that using the algebra method which he is familiar with might no longer be as relevant in solving some math problems today.
.......phtthp:
and what teaching methods have changed in the past 20 to 30 years ? does the Modelling method constitute a change in teaching methods ?Said Mr Heng: \"The question for us really is: Do we want to stick to syllabus and teaching methods that we are used to as parents when we were students 20 to 30 years ago, or should we watch our students master the skills that are needed for the next 20 to 30 years of their life?\"
No, the Modelling method is just a technique in solving maths problems. This technique was necessary because complex abstract problems needed to be solved by students not familiar with abstract mathematical tools, ie. algebra.
Teaching methods have not changed in the past 20 to 30 years. There was a call to teach less, learn more. That vision has yet to be executed on a mass level. That would consitute a change in teaching methods.
There's a lot of call for productivity at the national level. What about productivity in the educational industry? Learn more, in less time. I still haven't seen this happening. Vision without execution, is just pointless. If MOE can get students to learn more in less time, ie. by not mugging 8 hours a day, then productivity has increased. Why is there no call for productivity in the education sector ?phtthp:
alright, so where are the forums and sessions where parents can get feeback from MOE ? there's no point in having monologues amongst parents if there's no feedback from the ministry. How is MOE listening to parents and working on our suggestions ?He outlined ongoing efforts, including sessions for parents to provide feedback and share experiences.
..... -
Said Mr Heng: “The question for us really is: Do we want to stick to
syllabus and teaching methods that we are used to as parents when we
were students 20 to 30 years ago, or should we watch our students master
the skills that are needed for the next 20 to 30 years of their life?”
My answer is yes we should WATCH our students master the skills that are needed for the next 20 to 30 years of their life BUT not us LEARNING the skills AND TEACHING our kids from P1 to P6 levels!
Just like our parents sent us to schools when we were young, was there a day they have to attend a single workshop to learn how to do Maths or other subjects? If yes, half of us will not be the professionals we are today cos our parents were too busy earning a living then or not highly educated enough to understand the workshops.
I hope they will understand our FULL frustrations and act on them. I have 3 kids and between them, they have like 10 tuitions for me to pay and send them. I have tried teaching them myself but it is almost impossible for me to teach them everything round the clock. I am a CPA, I attended some of the Maths workshop, read thru tons of assessment books, but if you give me a high order Maths questions now, you will see me scribbling and drawing on 3 pages of rough papers and still unable to solve the question using models after 30 minutes or even 3 hrs (but algebra yes, 3 minutes flat can solve). I will be happy if my kids ARE TAUGHT ADEQUATELY in school and able to solve in anyway they like or using any skills that is relevant in the future world.
Mr Heng reiterated that the children of today will be growing into a "different world". For EVERY generation, aren’t the children ultimately be growing into a "different world", just like we did? So this cannot be a reason for education to develop into such a stage where parents teaching or tuitions taking such monumental roles in our kids’ lives. AS a parent, we can impart values to our kids, we can guide them in school work, we can give them moral support , we can feed them but we can’t be attending workshops and teaching our kids the entire syllabus all the time . -
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