Real reason behind Singapore’s obsession with tuition

[hokkiengirl]

Imami:

But how would parents know if IP is/is not suitable for their children?

My child is still very young, so I don't really know about IP although my niece and nephew (a pair of twins) are IP students.

Here's my take on this.

Speaking from personal experience interacting with IP students, those who can survive and do well in IP need to be self-motivated to study and have the discipline to do the necessary work. I believe that the IP schools generally offer very good programmes. However, they do expect the students to do a fair bit of independent study and THINKING. Tests are mostly internal, so the student can actually cruise along in a false state of complacency even if they don't do well, as they will just move on to the next level. That is very dangerous, as it means that they are not really prepared for anything at all. Even if they are bright, if they are lazy and refuse to put in effort, being in the IP will do them no good. Too many IP students have the reputation of being able to talk a lot but not do proper written work (because it is too tedious and requires proper, systematic critical thinking. Talking is SOOOO much easier and more fun!!! ) These are the ones who end up not doing well for the A-levels or leaving the IP halfway.

How is IP then different from an O-level education? The latter is very geared towards preparing the students for exams. Therefore, it is content-heavy and tests skills intensively. Students with this background who go on the JC are thus very well prepared for the stress and rigour of the A-levels. Do they lose out in terms of analysis and creativity? Not for the bright ones, of course, but even for the average ones, as long as they are willing to try, they eventually manage to grasp the necessary skills. So it would seem that it boils down to attitude.

Let's look at my eldest son, for example. He is pretty bright (I think lah), but he is severely lacking in discipline. I would hesitate to send him to an IP school with no O-level back-up as he needs constant reminders from test scores that he ain't all that hot in the academic arena and he needs to put in constant effort. I think being in an O-level programme will do him good as it would inculcate the values of hard work and discipline.

The problem now is that too many 'good' schools with a strong background in producing stellar O-level results are becoming IP schools. I'm no longer left with many ideal choices and I'm reconsidering my options. Please note that IP schools ultimately prepare students for the A-level exams, so parents may want to consider if the school has a decent track record in that area. At the end of the day, there are no IP certs and exams; only A-level certs. Please read between the lines for what that means.

[verykiasu2010]

hokkiengirl:

Imami:

But how would parents know if IP is/is not suitable for their children?

My child is still very young, so I don't really know about IP although my niece and nephew (a pair of twins) are IP students.

Here's my take on this.

Speaking from personal experience interacting with IP students, those who can survive and do well in IP need to be self-motivated to study and have the discipline to do the necessary work. I believe that the IP schools generally offer very good programmes. However, they do expect the students to do a fair bit of independent study and THINKING. Tests are mostly internal, so the student can actually cruise along in a false state of complacency even if they don't do well, as they will just move on to the next level. That is very dangerous, as it means that they are not really prepared for anything at all. Even if they are bright, if they are lazy and refuse to put in effort, being in the IP will do them no good. Too many IP students have the reputation of being able to talk a lot but not do proper written work (because it is too tedious and requires proper, systematic critical thinking. Talking is SOOOO much easier and more fun!!! ) These are the ones who end up not doing well for the A-levels or leaving the IP halfway.

How is IP then different from an O-level education? The latter is very geared towards preparing the students for exams. Therefore, it is content-heavy and tests skills intensively. Students with this background who go on the JC are thus very well prepared for the stress and rigour of the A-levels. Do they lose out in terms of analysis and creativity? Not for the bright ones, of course, but even for the average ones, as long as they are willing to try, they eventually manage to grasp the necessary skills. So it would seem that it boils down to attitude.

Let's look at my eldest son, for example. He is pretty bright (I think lah), but he is severely lacking in discipline. I would hesitate to send him to an IP school with no O-level back-up as he needs constant reminders from test scores that he ain't all that hot in the academic arena and he needs to put in constant effort. I think being in an O-level programme will do him good as it would inculcate the values of hard work and discipline.

The problem now is that too many 'good' schools with a strong background in producing stellar O-level results are becoming IP schools. I'm no longer left with many ideal choices and I'm reconsidering my options. Please note that IP schools ultimately prepare students for the A-level exams, so parents may want to consider if the school has a decent track record in that area. At the end of the day, there are no IP certs and exams; only A-level certs. Please read between the lines for what that means.

if the IP program and IP schools are so hopeless and useless, why then year after year the few IP schools produce the most number of A level distinctions in H2 and H3 subjects as well as getting the lion's share of all scholarships for uni courses ?

MOE states that IP school / program is meant for those who are clearly uni bound, by whichever route. The idea is to save time from O level preparation to do more meaningful stuff for the kids. It does not mean IP is lower standard or less rigourous

[Chenonceau]

I don't think hokkiengirl meant to say that IP is useless. She did qualify that it is a path that works well for independent and self-motivated learners... and then she qualified that... \"Tests are mostly internal, so the student can actually cruise along in a false state of complacency even if they don't do well, as they will just move on to the next level. That is very dangerous, as it means that they are not really prepared for anything at all.\"

[verykiasu2010]

Chenonceau:

I don't think hokkiengirl meant to say that IP is useless. She did qualify that it is a path that works well for independent and self-motivated learners... and then she qualified that... \"Tests are mostly internal, so the student can actually cruise along in a false state of complacency even if they don't do well, as they will just move on to the next level. That is very dangerous, as it means that they are not really prepared for anything at all.\"

that is a very misleading statement. that is why I asked if they are so \"useless\" why then the IP graduates got most of the scholarships and got the most distinctions in H2 and H3 subjects, if the student can actually cruise along in a false state of complacency even if they don't do well, as they will just move on to the next level.

[Chenonceau]

verykiasu2010:

Chenonceau:

I don't think hokkiengirl meant to say that IP is useless. She did qualify that it is a path that works well for independent and self-motivated learners... and then she qualified that... \"Tests are mostly internal, so the student can actually cruise along in a false state of complacency even if they don't do well, as they will just move on to the next level. That is very dangerous, as it means that they are not really prepared for anything at all.\"

that is a very misleading statement. that is why I asked if they are so \"useless\" why then the IP graduates got most of the scholarships and got the most distinctions in H2 and H3 subjects, if the student can actually cruise along in a false state of complacency even if they don't do well, as they will just move on to the next level.

Misleading only if taken out of context. If you read her whole post the context is clear lah... BTW, need investment advice. PM-ed you. Dun mind... help help ok? :please:

[verykiasu2010]

i think people who has no knowledge of the IP content and system should not make sweeping statements as if it is gospel truth. that is very misleading and unhelpful to other readers who may mistake it to be the norm

[Imami]

atutor2001:

optimistforum:

.... I get the feeling, frm recent posts, that Singapore educaton success is mostly attributable to out of school tutoring rather than the perceived quality of your schools. Am I right? ....

An average kid (quite hardworking) without tuition or supplementary exercises from parents will be very lucky to get 220 in PSLE, generally will be less than 210. Any normal playful kid without tuition or supplementary exercises from parents is guaranteed 200 and below. Relevant extra work is definitely needed to achieve 240 and above.

Really??

[verykiasu2010]

Imami:

atutor2001:

[quote=\"optimistforum\"].... I get the feeling, frm recent posts, that Singapore educaton success is mostly attributable to out of school tutoring rather than the perceived quality of your schools. Am I right? ....

An average kid (quite hardworking) without tuition or supplementary exercises from parents will be very lucky to get 220 in PSLE, generally will be less than 210. Any normal playful kid without tuition or supplementary exercises from parents is guaranteed 200 and below. Relevant extra work is definitely needed to achieve 240 and above.

Really??[/quote]fortune telling :siam:

[Imami]

verykiasu2010:

Imami:

[quote=\"atutor2001\"]
An average kid (quite hardworking) without tuition or supplementary exercises from parents will be very lucky to get 220 in PSLE, generally will be less than 210. Any normal playful kid without tuition or supplementary exercises from parents is guaranteed 200 and below. Relevant extra work is definitely needed to achieve 240 and above.

Really??

fortune telling :siam: [/quote] :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

[verykiasu2010]

Chenonceau:

Misleading only if taken out of context. If you read her whole post the context is clear lah... BTW, need investment advice. PM-ed you. Dun mind... help help ok? :please:

PM replied.