Real reason behind Singapore’s obsession with tuition

[cherryc]

vks2010 wrote : ""yes, the conclusion is :- parents’ mindset, not that the schools are all so hopeless, not that all the teachers don’t teach, not that all the schools are testing beyond what was taught … it is all in the mindset of parents who cannot accept when their kids score lower than the peers. it is really a mindset problem of the parents, too small minded that they cannot accept the fact their kids’ scores is just 0.000000001 lower than the next guy in t-score"


Parents’ mindset alone cannot explain why more than 90% of SIngapore students go for tuition on top of their parents teaching them at home. If the disparity of what is being taught in school and what is being actually tested is not that wide, there won’t be much to be tuitioned in the first place.

Furthermore, those who go for tuition to stay at top will not account for more than 10% of these 90% kids cos the majority of them will not get into top 10% no matter how much they are being tuitioned.

Just take a look at p5 or p6 textbooks and then try out the exam papers and probably school notes if any and give us your views after that.

Many factors and policy changes over the years have resulted in today’s education trends and I do hope someone can piece it together and pinpoint what has gone wrong along the way for us to come to this stage where 90% go for tuitions.

I like this quote from Ian Tan in one of his posts :

"And honestly, no offence to anyone who doesn’t have primary school-going kids, but unless you’re in our shoes, it’s very hard to fully emphathize with the situation that we have to deal with on our own terms. There’s no need to prove who’s right or wrong, when the situation is staring at affected parents in the face, and we can only hope to ride it out or change the system ."


For IP, my personal experience is that my niece told me the school has skipped teaching virtually all the sec 1 and sec 2 topics like simultaneous equations as it can be self studied and basically is "too easy". For my sec 3 IP nephew, he is doing JC type of maths and physics so without tuition, they have no guidance at all and they are just 13-15 kids, not independent university students.

[Intermezzo]

Chenonceau:

But even if SOME teach badly... it is something to be fixed. You would accept that SOME of your Ichiban Sushi is not fresh?

er... i really can't agree with this example because i don't see myself and my kids as CUSTOMERS of the school....

[Chenonceau]

Intermezzo:

Chenonceau:

But even if SOME teach badly... it is something to be fixed. You would accept that SOME of your Ichiban Sushi is not fresh?

er... i really can't agree with this example because i don't see myself and my kids as CUSTOMERS of the school....

Education is a public service. You would accept it if SOME nights your roads are lit... and SOME months, your block is not cleaned... and SOME days you get clean water through the tap...

Same difference really, when SOME schools teach well and others ONLY from textbooks... mark compos with ONE tick... make spelling errors in every compo marked in the last 15 months.

[Imami]

tuition_czar:

One point to add: if you kept up with local current affairs, you would have seen reports of more IP students taking the IGCSE O levels in private, such that they have something to fall back on if things turn bad.

Isn't this a very good example of how parents/students are kiasu? Some of us would try to buffer here, there and everywhere, just so that when our children fall, the fall is cushioned. :siam:

Maybe our education system is not perfect. Maybe the teachers don't teach everything. Maybe the exams/tests cover more than what is taught/in the textbook. Maybe it's just my child is not good enough.... But I don't need to cover every hole and I cannot cover every hole...

Don't flame me... I am also a kiasu parent :oops:

[BeContented]

Imami:

tuition_czar:

One point to add: if you kept up with local current affairs, you would have seen reports of more IP students taking the IGCSE O levels in private, such that they have something to fall back on if things turn bad.

Isn't this a very good example of how parents/students are kiasu? Some of us would try to buffer here, there and everywhere, just so that when our children fall, the fall is cushioned. :siam:

Maybe our education system is not perfect. Maybe the teachers don't teach everything. Maybe the exams/tests cover more than what is taught/in the textbook. Maybe it's just my child is not good enough.... But I don't need to cover every hole and I cannot cover every hole...

Don't flame me... I am also a kiasu parent :oops:

Hahaha.
Maybe I funtion a little differently. I try to tell/show my kids the holes & tell them
\"You decide whether u want to drop into that hole or leap over it. Dun say I never tell u got hole there ah. Got 'eyes' cannot see, then too bad.

If u fall, I will be sad & cry for you. But u will cry louder cos' it will be YOUR life that will be affected more in long term.\"


But importantly, must also tell them if they tried their best but still fall, it's ok. We look for help Loh.

[verykiasu2010]

the exam is useless if everyone is able to score 100%


PSLE is a national ranking exam, it is not a test of knowledge acquisition per se. For the sake of argument, those who scored 265 to 285 probably have the same knowledge bank except that for those 4 days, they make different mistakes at different papers.

frankly, in this internet age, knowledge acquisition is less important than knowing where the relevant knowledge could be found

but then if you want to race, then there will be winners and runners’ up (no, there are no ‘losers’, to be politically correct, as in there is no class position these days in the school report ‘card’, to make some/many parents happy so that their kids are not recorded as being last in position)

[jtoh]

whitecorp:

jtoh:

[quote=\"tuition_czar\"]One point to add: if you kept up with local current affairs, you would have seen reports of more IP students taking the IGCSE O levels in private, such that they have something to fall back on if things turn bad.

The Straits Time article did point out that students were taking iGCSE O levels for different reasons. Among the reasons given were 1) to see where they stand; 2) to apply to foreign universities; 3) because they were interested in the subjects; and 4) as a fallback.

Also, based on stats given by the British Council which administers the iGCSE exams for private candidates here, of the private students who took the exams with them, only about 40 students were Singaporeans, mostly between the ages of 9 and 20.

So it's not a runaway figure of IP students taking the iGCSE O levels because they're worried they have no qualifications to fall back on.

Big scary trends have small unnoticeable beginnings.[/quote]And therefore we should panic at every small unnoticeable beginning because it may just become a big scary trend.

[hokkiengirl]

verykiasu2010:

if the IP program and IP schools are so hopeless and useless, why then year after year the few IP schools produce the most number of A level distinctions in H2 and H3 subjects as well as getting the lion's share of all scholarships for uni courses ?

MOE states that IP school / program is meant for those who are clearly uni bound, by whichever route. The idea is to save time from O level preparation to do more meaningful stuff for the kids. It does not mean IP is lower standard or less rigourous

Nope, I definitely did not say that the IP and schools are hopeless. In fact, I said that most, if not all, have good programmes. Do they stretch the kids? Yes. Do they encourage thinking out of the box? Yes. Do kids learn more intensively and in greater depth and breadth? Yes. That is the ideal situation that happens for many kids who are SUITABLE for IP to begin with.

My point is that parents must know their children and make careful choices for them before enrolling them into the IP stream. This is because it truly IS for the brightest and cream of the crop in terms of expectations and work set. Do a great many end up with scholarships and doing very well? Yes, they do. This is because they really are very bright and motivated and the IP is a great fit for their independent learning styles and inquisitive attitudes. I am talking about the group which does not fare as well because they are not as disciplined (perhaps) or may not be able to adapt to such a 'free' and ''open' style of education. There are those kids around, you know. The ones who do much better in structured environments because of their learning styles. And there are the kids who need the 'wake-up call' of not-so-good O-level results to spur them on to reach their full potential.

I have not only 'interacted' with IP students; I have taught them for in IP schools, NOT merely at tuition centres. So I have formed my opinion based on what I have seen and experienced over the years.

Maybe I gave the impression that the IP is less rigorous. If so, I do apologise. That was not what I meant. My point was that there are kids in IP who just manage a pass every year. They are not doing badly enough to get asked to leave, but they are not thriving either. And schools of course do not want to come across as heavy-handed and high-handed by suggesting that these borderline cases should change course too early on. So what happens is that those who get a lot out of the programme excel, whereas there is a group that just barely makes it. Even if the programme is wonderful, there will be those who will not be able to get a great deal of benefit of it. Nothing wrong with the programme. Not always a question of laziness. Usually an issue of a GOOD FIT.

[hokkiengirl]

jtoh:

Chenonceau:

[quote=\"jtoh\"]
Even though IP students do not sit for the O levels it doesn't mean that their internal exams are not rigorous. And if the students do badly, they will be counseled and retained if necessary. If a student consistently scores a GPA of <3.0 and still thinks that he will do well at A levels without additional effort and continues to cruise along, then he and his parents have some waking up to do.

This is true.

In my experience, students who can't keep up are asked to leave the school and join a school with 'O' levels. This could be why at least one of the IP schools is thinking of starting 'O' level classes too... so that such students don't have to go through the trauma of expulsion. The IP exams also tend to be more difficult for each age group.

This said, I don't think hokkiengirl said anything about the exams being less rigorous.

I know hokkiengirl didn't say IP exams were less rigorous. I wanted to point it out in case there are readers who have the impression that IP exams are walks in the park compared to the O levels.[/quote]Yup, will triple-clarify, then. The IP exams are not easy ones. The questions are also hard and test the students on more analysis and critical thinking. Just as it is possible to get 51 marks out of 100 for a 'content-heavy' exam, it is also possible to get 51 out of 100 for a critical thinking paper. Technically, both are passes, so the kid moves on to the next level. It is this group I am worried about. It's not great for their self-esteem either to not do well when they have been feted as the creme de la creme.

[jtoh]

Hi hokkiengirl,


Thanks for the clarifications and I agree with you about the importance of a good fit.