Real reason behind Singapore’s obsession with tuition

[coast]

atutor2001:

My apology should be 1990s when my eldest kid was in Pr school. In terms of raw scores, a T-score of 200 actually looks quite good, which will be an average of about 70 marks per subject. (That is based on feedback of PSLE results in 2010.)


Many parents are unaware of the conversion and the national averages, feeling quite comfortable when their kids are getting 65 to 70 marks for each subject, not knowing that when converted to T-score, that could or rather usually would be less than 200 points.

Hi atutor2001,

Thanks for sharing

I just found a slide dated 2011 (pg 7 of attachment from http://www.chijpritoapayoh.moe.edu.sg/NWeb/Parents%20Briefing/P6_Briefing_2011.pdf
):-

PSLE Grading System
A* 91 – 100
A 75 - 90
B 60 - 74
C 50 – 59
D 35 - 49
E 20 - 34
U - Ungraded < 20

Would you be able to advise (based on your prior estimates of data you have analysed):-

1) Do you think PSLE awards grades based on above grading system?
2) Do you think the MT's mean is different from the other 3 subjects (Eng, Maths, Sci) since 80++% scored A*/A for MT Vs 40++% scored A*/A for the other 3 subjects?

Please ignore my questions if you didn't already cover them during your prior analysis but if you had, really appreciate if you could share them!

:thankyou:

[Melodies]

Not a fair apple to apple comparison le. It is unfair to those good teachers who are teaching in rich child schools (like A, M, NY, etc.) since those rich parents will engage tutor for their children anyway since money is not a concern and they are very busy. Logically, a poorer neighborhood school will have lesser pupils whose parents can afford tuition.

limlim:

cherryc:

Hopefully, the drastic drop of students attending tuition means the education system has improved such that schools have taught well enough so that the kids do not need to learn the basics or extra from tuition centers. The trend is alarming and the more successful the tuition centers are, the more it means our education system has serious flaws.

Maybe MOE should reward schools with the least number of students having tuitions and give the teachers extra year end bonus !

:goodpost:

Agree!

[BeContented]

limlim:

If PSLE test what was taught, I doubt the demand for tuition would be that strong.


You're talking about one school setting easy paper, whereas I'm talking about MOE setting manageable paper for PSLE, and all school teach what is to be tested at PSLE, and PSLE to be testing what the schools teach. It totally different issue. And if different schools paper difficulty varies so much, then, it is MOE's deficiency.. They should try to make it similar level.

And for the last part, I totally disagree.

I don't see that many student having tuition for or try to take S paper just because it gives an advantage of some sort. Do you?

Look at GEP? GEP is totally different from S paper, and IMO, GEP is undesirable!

You see my example as ONE school, I see it as possibly the 'silent half'.
Of the many many who complain about difficult papers, what schools are those kids in? Top 30%?

To some extent, schools that set difficult papers tend to be also the better schools with some standard to maintain. No? There are many schools who have < 50% qualifying for express, <15 students (whole P6 cohort) with t-score 250 and above. Dun think these schools set such difficult paper....
And for those many other schools with 50-200+ students with t-score >250,
many CHOOSE them, FLOCK to them, transfer to them.....

Come to the crucial moment, many people's words and action do not tally. If given the choice between good school (but with difficult paper) vs average school, which will people choose? Why soooo many people try all sorts of methods (shift house, give false address, do PV etc etc) to get into those good schools?

If there is no GEP....only S paper.....you sure nobody will bother to have tuition for those? If school maths syllabus is sufficient, why all the training programmes for MO, UNSW etc etc?
It's the competitive streak/strive for the best/full potential.......mentality. No escape.

[Imami]

Is it still kiasu or is it "want to win it all" mentality? I kiasu so i will try todo my best as a parent but I don’t want to/don’t need to/cannot win it all.


My time in primary school, tuition was for those who were borderline cases. So they had tuition because the parents wanted them to pass (kiasu). Now, many kids are having tuition because 80 marks is not good enough? This is not kiasu, this is "want to win".

[Imami]

tuition_czar:

Kiasu literally means scared to lose, which is equivalent to want to win. Isn't it so?

Nope, I don't see it that way. Kiasu to me, is just that - scare to lose. Its just like \"not bad\" and good. Not bad may not mean good. Not far doesn't literally mean near.

[janet88]

Kids in top classes are going for tuition to stay at the top. Their grades are in high 90 range...gap difference is like just 0.5 or 1 mark in those classes. My son is hardly anywhere near those kids. I worry for him.

If those intelligent kids need the little push, weaker ones will need double dose.

This crazy idea of 'teach less, learn more' has caught fire. It's dumb.
Schools are not able to teach sufficiently as it is...how can MOE decide to teach less (more like lesser)? No way can it be possible that teaching less will lead to learning more :siao: This is THE reason why tuition industry is booming.
As a parent, I am not asking to 'win everything'. That is KIASU. I know my child's limits.

PSLE is getting harder every year. Parents like myself are afraid and not confident that schools can prepare kids for this BIG exam. The syllabus is so tough that I cannot and dare not coach by myself. Parents who are graduates will also find the subjects very tough.

[Imami]

When I first heard the \"teach less, learn more\", I was thinking simi lai eh? How can that happen? But I thought to myself,\"ai ya u duno lah... New technology\" but after reading this much, hey - I am not alone leh

[janet88]

Imami:

When I first heard the \"teach less, learn more\", I was thinking simi lai eh? How can that happen? But I thought to myself,\"ai ya u duno lah... New technology\" but after reading this much, hey - I am not alone leh

Education is fixed...no new technology one. If MOE wanted to teach less, then don't teach models lah. Use algebra all the way. We grew up and sat for exams using that. Teach these stupid things called models and heuristic :faint:

Hey Imami, don't say that. I also thinking what stupid idea was that...frustrated, yet have to understand this whole thing. Teach less can learn more meh ??? :roll:

[Imami]

I can’t u derstand that cos by normal logic, without any other influencing factor, teach 100% should end up with learn 100%, if not lesser than 100%. How come can learn more?


I supposed the education is now geared towards self learning or learn more in your own means? But it’s not fair lor. Not everyone has sufficient dough to frank all the supplementarity classes. Not everyone has the time.

[janet88]

Imami:

I can't u derstand that cos by normal logic, without any other influencing factor, teach 100% should end up with learn 100%, if not lesser than 100%. How come can learn more?


I supposed the education is now geared towards self learning or learn more in your own means? But it's not fair lor. Not everyone has sufficient dough to frank all the supplementarity classes. Not everyone has the time.

1+1=2. Right? If not teaching 100% but yet testing 101%, what logic ?
That means schools keep saliva from teaching, you all go find tutors to learn more lor.