Real reason behind Singapore’s obsession with tuition

[Imami]

When I first heard the \"teach less, learn more\", I was thinking simi lai eh? How can that happen? But I thought to myself,\"ai ya u duno lah... New technology\" but after reading this much, hey - I am not alone leh

[janet88]

Imami:

When I first heard the \"teach less, learn more\", I was thinking simi lai eh? How can that happen? But I thought to myself,\"ai ya u duno lah... New technology\" but after reading this much, hey - I am not alone leh

Education is fixed...no new technology one. If MOE wanted to teach less, then don't teach models lah. Use algebra all the way. We grew up and sat for exams using that. Teach these stupid things called models and heuristic :faint:

Hey Imami, don't say that. I also thinking what stupid idea was that...frustrated, yet have to understand this whole thing. Teach less can learn more meh ??? :roll:

[Imami]

I can’t u derstand that cos by normal logic, without any other influencing factor, teach 100% should end up with learn 100%, if not lesser than 100%. How come can learn more?


I supposed the education is now geared towards self learning or learn more in your own means? But it’s not fair lor. Not everyone has sufficient dough to frank all the supplementarity classes. Not everyone has the time.

[janet88]

Imami:

I can't u derstand that cos by normal logic, without any other influencing factor, teach 100% should end up with learn 100%, if not lesser than 100%. How come can learn more?


I supposed the education is now geared towards self learning or learn more in your own means? But it's not fair lor. Not everyone has sufficient dough to frank all the supplementarity classes. Not everyone has the time.

1+1=2. Right? If not teaching 100% but yet testing 101%, what logic ?
That means schools keep saliva from teaching, you all go find tutors to learn more lor.

[atutor2001]

coast:

Hi atutor2001,

Thanks for sharing

I just found a slide dated 2011 (pg 7 of attachment from http://www.chijpritoapayoh.moe.edu.sg/NWeb/Parents%20Briefing/P6_Briefing_2011.pdf
):-

PSLE Grading System
A* 91 – 100
A 75 - 90
B 60 - 74
C 50 – 59
D 35 - 49
E 20 - 34
U - Ungraded < 20

Would you be able to advise (based on your prior estimates of data you have analysed):-

1) Do you think PSLE awards grades based on above grading system?
2) Do you think the MT's mean is different from the other 3 subjects (Eng, Maths, Sci) since 80++% scored A*/A for MT Vs 40++% scored A*/A for the other 3 subjects?
....

Hi Coast

1) Yes PSLE grades are based on the above marks.

2) The means of all the 4 subjects are different, so are their standard deviations. Based on my estimates, the average overall mean (lumping all 4 subjects together) is about 70. The means of math and Chinese are usually higher, more than than 70 less than 80. The means of English and Science are lower, between 60 and 70.

When a student's raw score for a subject is equal to the national mean, he will get a T-score of 50 for that subject. So a student with raw scores for all 4 subjects being exactly equal to the respective means will get T-score of 50 for each subject. The total aggregate T-score will then be 200, which is just above the cut-off point for express in secondary school.

Because of the high means for math and Chinese, a grade B in any of these subjects can pull down the T-score badly because a grade B is likely to be below the mean so the T score for that subject is going to be less than 50.

Above is a simplified view of T-score and hope I have answered your queries.

[coast]

atutor2001:

coast:

Hi atutor2001,

Thanks for sharing

I just found a slide dated 2011 (pg 7 of attachment from http://www.chijpritoapayoh.moe.edu.sg/NWeb/Parents%20Briefing/P6_Briefing_2011.pdf
):-

PSLE Grading System
A* 91 – 100
A 75 - 90
B 60 - 74
C 50 – 59
D 35 - 49
E 20 - 34
U - Ungraded < 20

Would you be able to advise (based on your prior estimates of data you have analysed):-

1) Do you think PSLE awards grades based on above grading system?
2) Do you think the MT's mean is different from the other 3 subjects (Eng, Maths, Sci) since 80++% scored A*/A for MT Vs 40++% scored A*/A for the other 3 subjects?
....

Hi Coast

1) Yes PSLE grades are based on the above marks.

2) The means of all the 4 subjects are different, so are their standard deviations. Based on my estimates, the average overall mean (lumping all 4 subjects together) is about 70. The means of math and Chinese are usually higher, more than than 70 less than 80. The means of English and Science are lower, between 60 and 70.

When a student's raw score for a subject is equal to the national mean, he will get a T-score of 50 for that subject. So a student with raw scores for all 4 subjects being exactly equal to the respective means will get T-score of 50 for each subject. The total aggregate T-score will then be 200, which is just above the cut-off point for express in secondary school.

Because of the high means for math and Chinese, a grade B in any of these subjects can pull down the T-score badly because a grade B is likely to be below the mean so the T score for that subject is going to be less than 50.

Above is a simplified view of T-score and hope I have answered your queries.

Hi atutor2001,

Once again thank you for sharing

I wrote the below post more than a year ago, managed to find the post after reading your above reply.

http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=21969&start=400

Copied below for easy reference:-

coast:

Here's something for any interested parents to ponder:-

A parent wrote to the media about \"Why good grades but low PSLE aggregate\"

http://www.asiaone.com/News/Education/Story/A1Story20081211-106943.html

In summary, her son scored 3 A* (Eng, Maths, Sci) and 1 A (Chi) ... T-score 244 ... lower T-score than those of his peers with 3A and 1B.

Here's SEAB's reply:-

http://www.seab.gov.sg/publicCommunications/mediaReplies/Editor_of_MyPaper_20081216.pdf

.

If PSLE awards grades based on above grading system, would you be able to guess how the following is possible (perhaps with some estimated mean and SD):-

Three A* for English, Mathematics and Science, an A for Chinese = aggregate score of 244. Most of his friends who managed 3As and a B have better aggregate scores than him.

I thought it is possible (3A* & 1A higher T-score than 3A & 1B) if A*, A, ... is based on a bell-curved and not on a fixed range like the PSLE Grading System quoted above?

Many many thanks if you can offer your views on this.

:thankyou:

[wonderm]

Kiasuism has many faces. A parent can be kiasu in many different ways when it concerns the child’s education.


1. Overly competitive, "want to win everything all the time" - let the child attend tuition/enrichment for everything whether he is already good at it or not.
2. Herd instinct - without knowing much about GEP or IP prog, also not sure if one’s own child is suited for such prog, would still hot-housing the child for it.
3. Afraid to lose, so stay away from competition - when a child qualifies for GEP or IP prog or a top school, but the parent is too afraid that he cannot compete with the other smart kids, hence chooses not to go for it.
4. Too scared of failure, provides for many "just-in-case" - Already in IP, but worried about not doing well in A-Level, hence will ask the child to take O Level as private student.
5. Don’t want to lose-out - Do not like the idea of tuition and the child is doing fine in school, but because that seems to be what everyone else is doing, so send and complain at the same time.
The list goes on…

Note, it is the mentality that I am talking about. For some people, these mentalities lead to the actions above. But the actions themselves do not imply the mentality. We can’t really tell if someone is kiasu just by looking at the action. We need to know what was the thinking behind the actions.

I believe such kiasu mentalities exist in every country/culture. But if we Singaporeans are indeed more kiasu than others, then no wonder we are not a happy bunch.

[verykiasu2010]

wonderm:

Kiasuism has many faces. A parent can be kiasu in many different ways when it concerns the child's education.


1. Overly competitive, \"want to win everything all the time\" - let the child attend tuition/enrichment for everything whether he is already good at it or not.
2. Herd instinct - without knowing much about GEP or IP prog, also not sure if one's own child is suited for such prog, would still hot-housing the child for it.
3. Afraid to lose, so stay away from competition - when a child qualifies for GEP or IP prog or a top school, but the parent is too afraid that he cannot compete with the other smart kids, hence chooses not to go for it.
4. Too scared of failure, provides for many \"just-in-case\" - Already in IP, but worried about not doing well in A-Level, hence will ask the child to take O Level as private student.
5. Don't want to lose-out - Do not like the idea of tuition and the child is doing fine in school, but because that seems to be what everyone else is doing, so send and complain at the same time.
The list goes on....

Note, it is the mentality that I am talking about. For some people, these mentalities lead to the actions above. But the actions themselves do not imply the mentality. We can't really tell if someone is kiasu just by looking at the action. We need to know what was the thinking behind the actions.

I believe such kiasu mentalities exist in every country/culture. But if we Singaporeans are indeed more kiasu than others, then no wonder we are not a happy bunch.

you also have another form of kiasuism where the parents complain and complain cow father cow mother suggesting all kinds of actions to deal with all the holes and gaps and lackings but quietly doing the opposite -- \"hidden dangers or 阴险!\"

or another type, act blur but lap up all the info

[pinky]

teach less - in schools

learn more - from tuition :faint:

[dorisp]

hokkiengirl:

dorisp:

Hey, can I join? I'd like my boy to learn dialects but he does not seen to like it leh..... ... :sad:

Oh, dorisp, my boys don't really 'like' Hokkien. They just take it that it's this thing their mad Mother speaks to them and the world. Don't care; ng-air ng-air lai (just push ahead). Speak relentlessly to him in dialect for some part of the day. Pretty soon, he'll figure it out. He'll thank you for it when he goes to the army. I think that there are actually loads of Singaporean families that still use dialects to communicate.

Thanks for the encouragement hokkiengirl, I shall try starting today.

BTW I recall hearding some boys from DS's kinddy speaking some dialect \"bad words\" when I was at the school the other day, sigh, and even their mother didn't stop those boys. I sure hope my DS didn't pick these up.