Real reason behind Singapore’s obsession with tuition

[SAHM_TAN]

Errrrr limlim, what sort of drugs were you thinking of selling in your example?

[wonderm]

verykiasu2010:

cherryc:

Chanced upon this post which was written 2 yrs ago but still v relevant. The problem has existed for so long . Strange, keep seeing the word \"wayang\" being used.


\"\"Ten to twenty years ago, when teachers were teaching formally, I mean really teaching to pupils in class, giving them lots of homework, then tuition was not necessary. Not many tuition centres those days, esp. the elite tuition centres.

These days, the schools (may be under MOE's direction) adopt \"creative teachings\". Students do a lot of 'wayang' in schools, eg, presentation, shifting of furnitures to form groups for discussion like they are university students, YOG support - no school, XYZ festival - no school, PSLE Oral-no school, anything happen-no school, e-learning-no school. Teach less + Learn more. All kinds of nonsense cause the lessons in schools to be very diluted. i.e. not the solid lessons we got 10-20 yrs ago. So, where/how to catch up? Tuition. Think MOE/teachers expect all pupils to go tuition.

Partly the introduction of GEP(Gifted Ed Prog) is to be blamed for the insecurity in parents. In the prog, they taught secondary sch level math to pri sch kids. Since every parent thinks their children are gifted, they do not want to lose out. So, they are willing to fork out tuition fee as high as $150 per session. This type of elite tuition is for the rich.

I did a simple survey in my kid's school. Almost every kid has tuition. No joke. My kid is going to lose out because we cannot afford tuition. The lessons delivered in class are shabby and homework given minimum, how to expect kids to excel without tuition?

I urge MOE/teachers to revert back to old style teachings, cut off all the wayang in school. Give them lots of homework to wear them out, thus too tired for further tuition, then everything will be equal. Presentation can reserved for Pre-U/Poly or University lah... Want pri sch kids to sell wat to investors? Too fast too furious. They better master their \"ratios\", trigonometry first... Teach more, learn more in school.\"\"

out of 185 primary schools, how many need to revert ?

I know some schools are not as bad as what you painted it to be

I also know many parents are complaining about one school in Jurong West recently with top PSLE scorer as being too much homework too much drilling too numbing on homework

It is really not easy to be teachers - some parents prefer the teachers to give more homework and view the supplementary classes as free additional teaching for the kids, some don't like it for taking up too much of the children's time and leave them with no childhood.

I have heard a lot of good things about the good schools. And I have heard that tuition becomes necessary now because in some schools, teachers don't teach well. I am not disagreeing with this. But on the other hand, do we see less tuition/enrichment classes for students from these top schools? maybe VS2010 can share your gut feel? no need hard statistics, just some gut feel?

My own impression is that students from good schools do still go for additional tuition/enrichment. This is not necessarily a bad thing as long as the children enjoy the lessons and don't feel burnt out. Some say that will favour the rich because they can afford good enrichment lessons. Again, I don't disagree. Say we can ban tuition, then those whose parents have the time and ability to teach will still be at an advantage over the others?

On comparing schools to fast food chains, there are some good discussions here about constraints and the need to go beyond the constraints. Just another way of looking at it, when I expect minimum differences between burgers from different Mac branches, do we really want to \"produce\" exactly the same graduates (or 12-year olds) even if MOE has a way to do it? I will not want to see that, but that's just me. One may say we don't want to consider our dear chidlren as \"products\" of the education system, but we want to consider the teaching in different schools \"services\" delivered by the system and our children are just the \"customers\", then again education is such a unique service which doesn't just depend on the \"service provider\" but very much on the \"customers\" themselves. That brings me back a few page when people talked about students have different level of listening skills. Besides that concentration, motivation, ability to grasp new concepts will all play a part. Oops, sorry, I am drifting to constraints.... No wonder we are going in a loop.

Still, I think a lot of the points made here are good and valid, even though they seem to be conflicting at times. Maybe that's why it is not easy.

[limlim]

Teachers are stressed also bcoz of MOE’s policies…

[verykiasu2010]

wonderm:

And I have heard that tuition becomes necessary now because in some schools, teachers don't teach well. I am not disagreeing with this.

I also hear all these from this website, but no one is willing to even name the school. :frustrated: The good schools have been named, how about those that allegedly 'don't teach' ? how come no name huh ?

wonderm:

But on the other hand, do we see less tuition/enrichment classes for students from these top schools? maybe VS2010 can share your gut feel? no need hard statistics, just some gut feel?

My gut feels hungry, don't know what happened to the lunch I ate. :evil:

wonderm:

My own impression is that students from good schools do still go for additional tuition/enrichment. This is not necessarily a bad thing as long as the children enjoy the lessons and don't feel burnt out. Some say that will favour the rich because they can afford good enrichment lessons. Again, I don't disagree. Say we can ban tuition, then those whose parents have the time and ability to teach will still be at an advantage over the others?

u said it! I would add that it is a vicious circle - as long as PSLE is a national ranking exam and top sec school admission is by merit. this merry go round will continue. But this is meritocracy (骂你多该死)) loved by Sigaporeans, wat ?

wonderm:

On comparing schools to fast food chains, there are some good discussions here about constraints and the need to go beyond the constraints. Just another way of looking at it, when I expect minimum differences between burgers from different Mac branches, do we really want to \"produce\" exactly the same graduates (or 12-year olds) even if MOE has a way to do it? I will not want to see that, but that's just me. One may say we don't want to consider our dear chidlren as \"products\" of the education system, but we want to consider the teaching in different schools \"services\" delivered by the system and our children are just the \"customers\", then again education is such a unique service which doesn't just depend on the \"service provider\" but very much on the \"customers\" themselves. That brings me back a few page when people talked about students have different level of listening skills. Besides that concentration, motivation, ability to grasp new concepts will all play a part. Oops, sorry, I am drifting to constraints.... No wonder we are going in a loop.

Still, I think a lot of the points made here are good and valid, even though they seem to be conflicting at times. Maybe that's why it is not easy.

At the end of the day, I am glad human being / ability is subject to 'normal distribution'......

[cherryc]

Using fast food restaurant analogy, we now have substandard menus and insufficient Ingredients (textbooks) but some outlets within the chain with great manager and staffs (who do not need to do too many wayang things) still manage to provide good service, improve on the ingredients on their own Accord and able to give full portion of good quality food . Customers of these outlets will be satisfied not knowing others have been shortchanged . On the other side, other customers who go to another outlet, will face the full brunt of substandard or complicated ingredient to subsubstandard service and final substandard inadequate food. These customers are forced to pay additional to eat elsewhere on top of the ‘public’ food. And worst still , the customers are told " Eat less, Feel fuller" .


If the ingredients is fresh and sufficient, the service meets proper guidelines , the service staffs are in it to serve and not being overworked , I believe the final outcome will be more desirable . The 2 groups of customers have different experiences so can’t compare. What we ask for the master franchise is to look at the ingredients , service guidelines and the final products they deliver and why majority of customers have to eat elsewhere after eating their food to be full. Whether the customer is fat, thin , speed of eating can be taken into consideration but not the key issues here.

[wonderm]

verykiasu2010:

At the end of the day, I am glad human being / ability is subject to 'normal distribution'......

I am not sure if I like \"那么多死Tuition\"

[verykiasu2010]

cherryc:

Using fast food restaurant analogy, we now have substandard menus and insufficient Ingredients (textbooks) but some outlets within the chain with great manager and staffs (who do not need to do too many wayang things) still manage to provide good service, improve on the ingredients on their own Accord and able to give full portion of good quality food . Customers of these outlets will be satisfied not knowing others have been shortchanged . On the other side, other customers who go to another outlet, will face the full brunt of substandard or complicated ingredient to subsubstandard service and final substandard inadequate food. These customers are forced to pay additional to eat elsewhere on top of the 'public' food. And worst still , the customers are told \" Eat less, Feel fuller\" .


If the ingredients is fresh and sufficient, the service meets proper guidelines , the service staffs are in it to serve and not being overworked , I believe the final outcome will be more desirable . The 2 groups of customers have different experiences so can't compare. What we ask for the master franchise is to look at the ingredients , service guidelines and the final products they deliver and why majority of customers have to eat elsewhere after eating their food to be full. Whether the customer is fat, thin , speed of eating can be taken into consideration but not the key issues here.

we know the 'good' outlets

please tell us the no good ones to avoid

[verykiasu2010]

wonderm:

verykiasu2010:

At the end of the day, I am glad human being / ability is subject to 'normal distribution'......

I am not sure if I like \"那么多死Tuition\"

surely we don't like 那么多屎 tuition

[cherryc]

we know the ‘good’ outlets


please tell us the no good ones to avoid[/quote]

Er …u just answer yr own question …


Seriously , I’m talking abt improving ingredients , service guidelines, employ the right staffs , inspire the staffs etc no need to shame schools , right?

[verykiasu2010]

cherryc:

we know the 'good' outlets


please tell us the no good ones to avoid

Er ....u just answer yr own question ......


Seriously , I'm talking abt improving ingredients , service guidelines, employ the right staffs , inspire the staffs etc no need to shame schools , right?[/quote]

ok still need to know which outlets need more help mah