Real reason behind Singapore’s obsession with tuition
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Chenonceau:
kekeke sorry, it's just that i found it very cute that vks2010 can use 2 very different ways to say essentially the same thing, in 2 closely spaced posts...
I am a bit disappointed that we have descended to vulgarity. And Intermezzo (this may stimulate another long emotive post from you which I won't know how to respond to), I had not expected that you would ride on the coat tails of vulgarity or someone else's fit of aggression. One can respect Becontented, Funz, Buds, Wonderm... who write and make sense... even if I don't always agree with them on every point.
yeah totally agree ~ i love the nice, balanced way BeContented, Funz, Buds, Wonderm, jtoh, etc writes too ~
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Chenonceau:
for ds who was in GEP, EMSL were always taught by different teachers throughout the 3 years leading to PSLE.
Hmmmm... yeah good point.... does anyone know if GEP teachers subject specialize? I am thinking that if GEP style has infiltrated mainstream, then if GEP teachers subject specialize, it may be a mechanism that is coherent with the new syllabus.Funz:
If you specialise in subjects, you move from class to class and level to level. You handle a lot more students. If you specialise in class, you cover EMS but you handle only that few classes (think at most only 2 classes looking at the timetable) and usually only that particular level.
Anyone knows?
and teacher:students ratio was about 1:25
the interesting thing is, many of his classmates still went for tuition in 1 or more subjects.
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Funz:
Specialise in subjects or specialise in the class. Both have their pros and cons.
If you specialise in subjects, you move from class to class and level to level. You handle a lot more students. If you specialise in class, you cover EMS but you handle only that few classes (think at most only 2 classes looking at the timetable) and usually only that particular level.
For the former, pupils get teachers who rightfully should have more in depth knowledge of the subject they are teaching. For the latter, pupils will get teachers who will know them better and may be able to provide a more holistic guidance.
No right or wrong, only preferences.
I am trying to recall my primary school days. I believe even then I had different subject teachers at least for upper primary, for I remember them as my science teacher or math teacher, and of course the dreaded chinese teacher. Haha.
Good & valid points. :goodpost:
IMO, think its fine for same teacher to teach EM @ P1 & P2 - better understanding of kid. Later, as long as the teacher has the passion & ability to handle all 3 EMS, I dun think there's any issue.
DD had a P4 teacher who taught EMS & tho main focus on Maths & least on Science, my gal raved about the teacher as she felt that the T challenged & spark their thinking process & able to connect the concepts. I was also surprised at what she had learnt too. While DD raved, her classmates' mothers complaint so much to me about the T teaching soooo little Sci & their kids suffered. My DD scored very well. My good exp vs their bad. So who's right who's wrong??
This year, DD comments about her EMS teacher has not been good & the irony is the current teacher's specialization is Science :slapshead: DS has a specialized Sci T too, but he complains.....
Your meat my poison & vice versa......but that's life to me. -
It is evident not everyone’s experiences are the same. Do note we may all be comparing experiences occurring within different timelines. Some of us have kids who are already working adults. Some have kids who are too young or in lower pri to even fathom the stress encountered in upp Pri. Some don’t even get involved with teaching their children. Hopefully we can all try to understand from the experiences shared by everyone here in its rightful context.
If we are always stuck in an air-con room, it’s going to be difficult to understand someone’s complaint about the horrific sweltering heat.
If we are used to driving or being chauffeured around, it is going to be difficult to understand why some people complain about bus delays in the sweltering heat. We may want to try it for ourselves first before brushing it off as a complaint. It is also way different if you are dressed in exercise gear for a leisurely run, and shower thereafter, vs perspiring in the heat when you are dressed in work attire heading for the next 10 hours of work. Very, very different experiences.
If we visit The Marketplace at Tanglin Mall for weekly grocery shopping, we are not going to understand why everyone else seems to complain how overcrowded every other mall seems to be on weekends. -
Intermezzo:
for ds who was in GEP, EMSL were always taught by different teachers throughout the 3 years leading to PSLE.
Hmmmm... yeah good point.... does anyone know if GEP teachers subject specialize? I am thinking that if GEP style has infiltrated mainstream, then if GEP teachers subject specialize, it may be a mechanism that is coherent with the new syllabus.Chenonceau:
[quote=\"Funz\"]If you specialise in subjects, you move from class to class and level to level. You handle a lot more students. If you specialise in class, you cover EMS but you handle only that few classes (think at most only 2 classes looking at the timetable) and usually only that particular level.
Anyone knows?
and teacher:students ratio was about 1:25
the interesting thing is, many of his classmates still went for tuition in 1 or more subjects. =)[/quote]You are a GEP Mommy. Ok... I understand now. I am not hitting out at you. I am not jealous of GEP parents. I think GEP benefits a certain population of students. I am glad that at least that part works as evidenced by the many enthousiastically supportive GEP parents.
Yet, allow me to humbly beg your understanding of our experiences in mainstream. Please.
My DS in P4 was taught EMS by same Teacher. I loved her. Even though she wasn't always on top of things, I loved her. She was kind and loving to my son and I. My DS is STILL taught MS by one Teacher... and I think she is great... in as far as her workload allows her to be. I don't fault the Chinese Teacher for asking the class to contribute tuition materials. The school obviously did not organise Materials Development projects or Materials Sharing initiative. The English Teacher is awful... spelling mistakes in every email... and every compo marked... but even after giving feedback to the school, she can't help making mistakes unless she goes back to primary school to get herself taught again. And she does have a sad personal story that she confided in me.
We can help these Teachers teach better with some systemic improvements. -
Chenonceau:
It is a common practice for a primary school teacher to teach EMS. Unlike secondary teachers where MOE will assign two teaching subjects to each teacher during their recruitment exercise, primary school teachers recruited are expected to be competent to teach EMS. (Not too sure whether there is any changes now. ) However i believe that the principals in the primary schools have the final say to the staff deployment. The current trend that i have observed is, more schools are having subject -specialization teachers for the P5 and P6 which I think it is good as it is difficult for one to be equally competent in teaching all 3 subjects.
Some Evidence that Primary School Teachers Subject-Specialize
(1) I admit that I could not find any write-up stating that primary school Teachers MUST teach EMS. Still, if we look at it logically, the link I provided above, would not need to be written if it was not ALREADY understood that primary school teachers are expected to teach more than one subject - and thus MOE found it necessary to now specify that Art, Music and PE Teachers henceforth don't have to.
(2) However, cousin of mine is a primary school Math HOD and she assures me that all primary school teachers have to be prepared to teach EMS. I gave Motivation Coaching to 2 primary school teachers who tell me that primary school teachers are expected to teach EMS (and it is a bonus if they are not made to).
(3) In the implementation, it is clear that in some schools, Principals allow Teachers to subject specialize. In other schools, no.... because currently, DS Math Teacher also teaches him Science. In P4, his form teacher taught EMS.
That Some Primary School Teachers Subject-Specialize Means No Policy Agains it?
Lastly, just because some schools allow Teachers to subject-specialize is no clear indication that there is no policy dictating that Teachers MUST teach EMS. Remember the fracas around DSA Appeals last year? The MOE stated that policy-wise, schools were not allowed to accept appeals. Yet schools did... and only stopped when MOE enforced. Might this be the case again?
I agree it could well be that MOE did state that teachers should subject-specialize and did not enforce, and that is why my DS' P4 Teacher handled EMS. His P5&6 Teacher handles Math and Science.
Allowing subject-specialization makes life easier for Teachers too... and that will help them teach better. Why not do it? I am sure there are constraints.
There are constraints. The primary school may not have enough trs to teach a particular subject, maybe english or science if all the teachers that are posted to the school prefer to teach the same subject Maths. Another contraint I heard is in planning of the time table. However, all these constraints can be overcome as shown by schools that have successfully implemented it. The better ones are moving into banding the students according to their strengths in different subjects. -
:rahrah: :rahrah: :goodpost: :hi5: I like.
BeContented:
Why the need to claim credit? :?janet_lee88:
MOE wants to implement this and that new system...but ultimately PSLE is still very much the same, past year paper and memorizing....and it is getting harder year after year.
What's with all the fanciful stuff? To impress WHO? Sure we are superb, but who can truly claim the credit when kids do well?
If I really have to justify, will tell my children
- be thankful they are born in Singapore
- be thankful that we have govt that provide reasonable study opportunities
- be thankful to the teachers who have taught them (没功劳也有苦劳）
- be thankful they are born healthy & normal
- be thankful that the parents can provide enough for them to go school comfortably & conducive environment & support
- give me credit for willing to stay home to take care of them & chauffeur them around
& the daddy to give up car to take MRT from one end to the other so that they can travel in comfort
- give some credit to their tutors for enlightening them when in doubt
- most of all, give themselves credit & a pat on their own shoulder (or back arh??) for willing to adopt the right attitude & study hard !!!
Did I forget anyone else??
Maybe Need to give ksp some credit for all the tips & venue to rant & keep my sanity too
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PiggyLalala:
Piggy... I may not always agree with you, but thanks for this impartial assessment.
It is a common practice for a primary school teacher to teach EMS. Unlike secondary teachers where MOE will assign two teaching subjects to each teacher during their recruitment exercise, primary school teachers recruited are expected to be competent to teach EMS. (Not too sure whether there is any changes now. ) However i believe that the principals in the primary schools have the final say to the staff deployment. The current trend that i have observed is, more schools are having subject -specialization teachers for the P5 and P6 which I think it is good as it is difficult for one to be equally competent in teaching all 3 subjects.Chenonceau:
Some Evidence that Primary School Teachers Subject-Specialize
(1) I admit that I could not find any write-up stating that primary school Teachers MUST teach EMS. Still, if we look at it logically, the link I provided above, would not need to be written if it was not ALREADY understood that primary school teachers are expected to teach more than one subject - and thus MOE found it necessary to now specify that Art, Music and PE Teachers henceforth don't have to.
(2) However, cousin of mine is a primary school Math HOD and she assures me that all primary school teachers have to be prepared to teach EMS. I gave Motivation Coaching to 2 primary school teachers who tell me that primary school teachers are expected to teach EMS (and it is a bonus if they are not made to).
(3) In the implementation, it is clear that in some schools, Principals allow Teachers to subject specialize. In other schools, no.... because currently, DS Math Teacher also teaches him Science. In P4, his form teacher taught EMS.
That Some Primary School Teachers Subject-Specialize Means No Policy Agains it?
Lastly, just because some schools allow Teachers to subject-specialize is no clear indication that there is no policy dictating that Teachers MUST teach EMS. Remember the fracas around DSA Appeals last year? The MOE stated that policy-wise, schools were not allowed to accept appeals. Yet schools did... and only stopped when MOE enforced. Might this be the case again?
I agree it could well be that MOE did state that teachers should subject-specialize and did not enforce, and that is why my DS' P4 Teacher handled EMS. His P5&6 Teacher handles Math and Science.
Allowing subject-specialization makes life easier for Teachers too... and that will help them teach better. Why not do it? I am sure there are constraints.
There are constraints. The primary school may not have enough trs to teach a particular subject, maybe english or science if all the teachers that are posted to the school prefer to teach the same subject Maths. Another contraint I heard is in planning of the time table. However, all these constraints can be overcome as shown by schools that have successfully implemented it. The better ones are moving into banding the students according to their strengths in different subjects.
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buds:
The only time i recall one form teacher who teaches all except MT is at P1 level. In some schools, the same form teacher follow up with the same class in P2 and still continue to have the teacher teach EMS. Subsequent years, a different teacher for every subject.
Lucky you! My DS has not been that fortunate. In his school, with the exception of P5, his form teachers taught him EMS including his final P6 year.
In my DD's school it is also similar. So far, its EMS with the exception of P4. This year, P5, her form teacher also takes her EMS.
Whether official policy or not, principal-driven or not, it's happening and I've spoken with the P & VPs, they tell me all the politically correct answers \"Teachers are expected to be able to teach EMS at primary school if required. Of course, there are teachers who request not to....blah blah blah.\"
At my DD's school, Science results have been dropping worse than stock market. I had a heart to heart talk with P to get in Specialists to help Parents & KIds because the school had been left without Science HOD for 2 years. For one of the SA, the highest score in my DD's cohort was 84, and you can imagine the percentage of kids who failed that exam. I could tell that Science teaching was dropping seriously. Was anything done? Nothing. They continue to test at very high standards but teaching is not adequate.
We have had many successful partnerships with Principals and teachers from both the schools my girls have attended/is currently still attending.
I've been involved in my kids' school as well, and of course, some Ps are more open to suggestions on curriculum & teaching. If they don't want you to interfere, they will have good PR skills to ward off your suggestions. With my kids failing at school or grades dropping like stock market, I had consult the Specialists whom I have to pay for.
I'm not a grades-crazy kind of parent. I also didn't believe in tuition. I wanted to believe in the school system. But when my kids started to fail or get borderline grades from P3, and I had to use Grammar Handbooks, Science Handbooks, pay Specialists' Consultants to get learning done, I'm getting really pissed. I feel blessed we're not so poor that we can't afford tuition but with 4 kids, it's definitely a huge financial burden. I speak up for those who can't afford. What about them? -
:goodpost: beanbear !
I just want to add our experience regarding teacher specialisation :
My ds is current year P6. For his cohort, there are some classes with different teachers teaching E/M/S (ie. specialised) and two classes with 1 teacher teaching EMS. DS from P1-P6, his form teacher teaches EMS. So even within the SAME school, there could be different mode of resource allocation.
Hence, I totally agree whether policy or other reasons, it is happening.
Also totally agree some Principals are more open to suggestions on curriculum & teaching than others. As an off-topic example, over the past few years, a group of parents including myself, have politely requested the school to release marks of compo paper and oral components taken by the children during exams. We spoke to HOD, VP, P....we were politely warded off/stalled. As of the recent P6 SA1 exam, the pupils still do not get the marks (they get a 5marks difference range. eg. 45-50). They also do not get to see the compo paper they did after the exams. As I've asked in other thread, why make the children take an exam and not release their score, or let them see the paper to see where they've gone wrong ? Makes absolutely no sense to me.
I accept that there are constraints but I see opportunities for MOE or schools as a whole to leverage off each other : why is it some schools can workaround constraints and some can't ?
Thinking alound on this issue of tuition, competition to get to \"good\" Secondary schools etc : Currently, GE and mainstream pupils results are taken as a whole for standard deviation and t-score computation. If MOE work out a way to compute the t-score within the mainstream only, will it result in a \"fairer\" t-score within the mainstream and take some pressure off the rat race and tuition scene ?
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