Real reason behind Singapore’s obsession with tuition
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there is no MOE policy on subject specialization, NEITHER is there MOE mandatory policy on teaching multiple subjects, viz EMS. Handling EMS by a single teacher could be the fancy of some principals but it does not mean every school is doing it or at every level, nor it is a policy
Also, subject specialization is not equal to non-multiple subject teaching
between black and white there are multiple shades of grey
to say that MOE has a policy that the teachers must handle multiple subjects a matter of policy is utter rubbish. as a policy, if not sure, don’t say it is policy. please don’t mislead other readers who are not well informed or who is not aware that principal has discretion …
please don’t ascribe speculation or personal impression or specific circumstances to be MOE policy, unless you are sure and dead certain it is a policy. I find it very detestable and very misleading
bullshit may be vulgar but not profane, it is impolite to some and it does not pretend to sugar coat the nonsense -
pixiedust:
That is totally irresponsible not to be able to see where the mistakes are and where the improvements need to be made. The principal probably knows the teachers are just simply any how mark the test papers ?
As an off-topic example, over the past few years, a group of parents including myself, have politely requested the school to release marks of compo paper and oral components taken by the children during exams. We spoke to HOD, VP, P....we were politely warded off/stalled. As of the recent P6 SA1 exam, the pupils still do not get the marks (they get a 5marks difference range. eg. 45-50). They also do not get to see the compo paper they did after the exams. As I've asked in other thread, why make the children take an exam and not release their score, or let them see the paper to see where they've gone wrong ? Makes absolutely no sense to me.
There are tow things here : (1) not able to learn from mistakes; and (2) not able to know whether the papers were correctly marked, hence possibly reinforcing learning of wrong things.
This is a dangerous school to be in. Best practice is to be able to discuss the scoring in each component so that effort could be put in the right component to improve learning. This is widely know that many schools do go into such details, each component's strength and weakness exhibited by the studentspixiedust:
The constraints is the ability of the principal to plan and their admin manager's experience / ability in the time tabling between subjects / teachers.I accept that there are constraints but I see opportunities for MOE or schools as a whole to leverage off each other : why is it some schools can workaround constraints and some can't ?
pixiedust:
GEP students have no advantage of mainstream students in PSLE. If anything they are at a disadvantage because they only start to focus on PSLE preparation after P6 SA1. In terms of t-score, they sit the same papers as the mainstream students, and being GEP does not necessarily be scoring higher than mainstream. As a matter of fact, many GEP kids score lower than many mainstream students. The 'pressure' is perceived, not real. Every kid fits onto a point on the normal distribution curveThinking alound on this issue of tuition, competition to get to \"good\" Secondary schools etc : Currently, GE and mainstream pupils results are taken as a whole for standard deviation and t-score computation. If MOE work out a way to compute the t-score within the mainstream only, will it result in a \"fairer\" t-score within the mainstream and take some pressure off the rat race and tuition scene ?
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oxyleo:
:goodpost:It is evident not everyone's experiences are the same. Do note we may all be comparing experiences occurring within different timelines. Some of us have kids who are already working adults. Some have kids who are too young or in lower pri to even fathom the stress encountered in upp Pri. Some don't even get involved with teaching their children. Hopefully we can all try to understand from the experiences shared by everyone here in its rightful context.
If we are always stuck in an air-con room, it's going to be difficult to understand someone's complaint about the horrific sweltering heat.
If we are used to driving or being chauffeured around, it is going to be difficult to understand why some people complain about bus delays in the sweltering heat. We may want to try it for ourselves first before brushing it off as a complaint. It is also way different if you are dressed in exercise gear for a leisurely run, and shower thereafter, vs perspiring in the heat when you are dressed in work attire heading for the next 10 hours of work. Very, very different experiences.
If we visit The Marketplace at Tanglin Mall for weekly grocery shopping, we are not going to understand why everyone else seems to complain how overcrowded every other mall seems to be on weekends.
there is no policy that says every supermarket has to be like Tanglin Mall, is there ?
there is no policy that says going to work must take bus, is there ? there is also no policy that says must shop at Tanglin Mall or NTUC
if you take bus, please don't say it is a policy to take bus
if you are chauffeured, don't say it is a policy not to take bus
it is absurd that people can ascribe it to MOE policy when it is very much principal's discretion and decision point, and then everything is MOE's fault again -
verykiasu2010:
I must agree with vks2010.
GEP students have no advantage of mainstream students in PSLE. If anything they are at a disadvantage because they only start to focus on PSLE preparation after P6 SA1. In terms of t-score, they sit the same papers as the mainstream students, and being GEP does not necessarily be scoring higher than mainstream. As a matter of fact, many GEP kids score lower than many mainstream students. The 'pressure' is perceived, not real. Every kid fits onto a point on the normal distribution curvepixiedust:
Thinking alound on this issue of tuition, competition to get to \"good\" Secondary schools etc : Currently, GE and mainstream pupils results are taken as a whole for standard deviation and t-score computation. If MOE work out a way to compute the t-score within the mainstream only, will it result in a \"fairer\" t-score within the mainstream and take some pressure off the rat race and tuition scene ?
Whether there is GEP or not, these kids are already supposed to be the 'smarter' lot. There's only 1% of them & taking them out will not give a true indication of how the kids really perform. It's like let's take china out of the olympics table-tennis competitions...... :siam: -
verykiasu2010:
...That is totally irresponsible not to be able to see where the mistakes are and where the improvements need to be made. The principal probably knows the teachers are just simply any how mark the test papers ? ...........This is a dangerous school to be in.......
Well, whoever has the power to make the decision probably doesn't think it is irresponsible, or has other \"constraints\". I've checked with my friends, some of their kids school return the paper to the children in class (but not allowed to bring home) and also release the score, but there is ONE other school which also refuses to release the mark and return the paper so our school is not the only one. One of my friends even wrote to the new Education Minister on this.
Again, policy or whatnot, this is what is happening.
Why must parents fight these \"wars\" with the schools ?
No, I don't expect all supermarkets to be Tanglin Mall Market Place.
but for government primary schools, I would expect all to have similar framework eg. NTUC. I can accept services and selection may be better at certain branches, there should be a baseline that all should cover. Like some kind of \"standard of business operation\".
If we have Tanglin Mall Market Place and wet markets, then can we shake our fingers at those who don't stay near Tanglin Mall and had to go to wet markets, and consequently denied access to some resources/knowledge, to want to go tuition ? -
pixiedust:
the non returning of test papers, release scores only based on banding, to me, an old fashioned person, is totally irresponsible and really warrant a petition to MOE that this warrant a standard policy decision.verykiasu2010:
...That is totally irresponsible not to be able to see where the mistakes are and where the improvements need to be made. The principal probably knows the teachers are just simply any how mark the test papers ? ...........This is a dangerous school to be in.......
Well, whoever has the power to make the decision probably doesn't think it is irresponsible, or has other \"constraints\". I've checked with my friends, some of their kids school return the paper to the children in class (but not allowed to bring home) and also release the score, but there is ONE other school which also refuses to release the mark and return the paper so our school is not the only one. One of my friends even wrote to the new Education Minister on this.
Again, policy or whatnot, this is what is happening.
Why must parents fight these \"wars\" with the schools ?
No, I don't expect all supermarkets to be Tanglin Mall Market Place.
but for government primary schools, I would expect all to have similar framework eg. NTUC. I can accept services and selection may be better at certain branches, there should be a baseline that all should cover. Like some kind of \"standard of business operation\".
If we have Tanglin Mall Market Place and wet markets, then can we shake our fingers at those who don't stay near Tanglin Mall and had to go to wet markets, and consequently denied access to some resources/knowledge, to want to go tuition ?
Especially at the first 12 years of education when students need solid grounding of principles and concepts, they need to know where they make mistakes and how to improve from them. Even teachers make mistakes in marking at times. Students need to know where they got it wrong and where they got it right. The worst scenario is the blind leading the blind.
It is precisely because of this (and other issues), some schools are more equal than others even though they are the 'same'. But this is just as in PSLE, as the normal distribution curve shows the spread of the different level of students' scores, so there is also normal distribution of principal's ability and strength. Some are more able to motivate, understand what / how things work and get the best out of the situation / teachers / constraints .... while some try to reinvent the wheel to see whether it could be made rounder by doing fancy stuff. -
One of the reasons why schools refuse/reluntant to return graded exam papers or individual marks for some items back to students is becos the schools want to avoid/minimise those marks to be challenged by the parents. The schools and the teachers must be very confident of their grading and be prepared to defend their grading (or be brave to admit their grading mistakes).
My dd’s school release all the papers and detailed marks. But the school also has to handle the parents’ queries and feedback. For oral, there are parents who challenge the teachers on why so and so can get one mark more than their dd. For compo, the parents also challenge (the school also releases the compo by the top scorer). The same apply to Science and Maths papers. Last year, the teachers re-graded the science paper after feedback from parents.
I can understand the dilemma the schools and teachers are in. Hopefully, all the schools and teachers do think that returning the papers back to the students is important as it forms a feedback loop of the students’ learning. Hopefully, we parents can also be kinder to the teachers and trust/respect their professionalism in grading.
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alng:
:goodpost:One of the reasons why schools refuse/reluntant to return graded exam papers or individual marks for some items back to students is becos the schools want to avoid/minimise those marks to be challenged by the parents. The schools and the teachers must be very confident of their grading and be prepared to defend their grading (or be brave to admit their grading mistakes).
My dd's school release all the papers and detailed marks. But the school also has to handle the parents' queries and feedback. For oral, there are parents who challenge the teachers on why so and so can get one mark more than their dd. For compo, the parents also challenge (the school also releases the compo by the top scorer). The same apply to Science and Maths papers. Last year, the teachers re-graded the science paper after feedback from parents.
I can understand the dilemma the schools and teachers are in. Hopefully, all the schools and teachers do think that returning the papers back to the students is important as it forms a feedback loop of the students' learning. Hopefully, we parents can also be kinder to the teachers and trust/respect their professionalism in grading.
it takes a very enlightened school management to do that, and fortunately many schools do that -
verykiasu2010:
hmm.. I disagree with the example.. I feel it below is more accurate..
if you take bus, please don't say it is a policy to take bus
if you are chauffeured, don't say it is a policy not to take bus
it is absurd that people can ascribe it to MOE policy when it is very much principal's discretion and decision point, and then everything is MOE's fault again
If the bus is full and yet the bus captain stop to pick up more passengers and let the passengers squeeze and squeeze, don't assume it is the policy of the bus company to encourage overcrowding when it might be the bus captain own discretion to overload the bus..
What the people experienced is not a matter of choice, but a result of someone's decision, and the someone may not be the one who sets policies.
Anyway, the last part.. agree.. I presume you're only referring to the one teacher take 2 or more subject situation.. which, according to you, is not a MOE policy.. -
oxyleo:
:goodpost:It is evident not everyone's experiences are the same. Do note we may all be comparing experiences occurring within different timelines. Some of us have kids who are already working adults. Some have kids who are too young or in lower pri to even fathom the stress encountered in upp Pri. Some don't even get involved with teaching their children. Hopefully we can all try to understand from the experiences shared by everyone here in its rightful context.
If we are always stuck in an air-con room, it's going to be difficult to understand someone's complaint about the horrific sweltering heat.
If we are used to driving or being chauffeured around, it is going to be difficult to understand why some people complain about bus delays in the sweltering heat. We may want to try it for ourselves first before brushing it off as a complaint. It is also way different if you are dressed in exercise gear for a leisurely run, and shower thereafter, vs perspiring in the heat when you are dressed in work attire heading for the next 10 hours of work. Very, very different experiences.
If we visit The Marketplace at Tanglin Mall for weekly grocery shopping, we are not going to understand why everyone else seems to complain how overcrowded every other mall seems to be on weekends.
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