Real reason behind Singapore’s obsession with tuition

[buds]

Funz:

For me too, tuition only if results show a need for it. However increasingly I am seeing parents looking for tutors for their children even before they start P1. Various reasons were cited, for insurance, cos they believe must have tuition eventually so want to 'chope' reputable tutor's time, cos parents themselves don't have time to go through kids daily work, so tutor more to follow through day to day stuff rather than to help with weak grades, etc.

Same observation on our end as well. :yikes:

I have parents asking whether i can teach their 1yr old phonics! :faint:

[corneyAmber]

buds:

This thread has OTed so far with categories and what nots. :offtopic:

Please read the details. :heresmyfish:

[dorisp]

buds:

....I have parents asking whether i can teach their 1yr old phonics! :faint:

This is really :faint:

[Funz]

ksi:

Yeah, would that be considered enrichment, i.e. good to have since there is no problem to solve? I distinguish between enrichment and tuition. I know many of the bright kids go for enrichment as a good to have. Centres like TLL is enrichment to me, children go there to pick up lifestyle habits like Heelys. Mindstretcher is both an enrichment and a tuition centre. Berries is more of an enrichment centre because if a primary school child is identified to have a problem in Chinese, it would be tough to follow the syllabus in Berries at the same level as syllabus is not MOE driven but extended, Tien Hsia caters more for tuition as they follow MOE syllabus closely but I am not sure if they have started enrichment version as well. So are we an enrichment-centric nation or a tuition-centric nation? :?

I do distinguish them too. And no, not referring to enrichments. Talking about tuition, some group, some private. But really, more and more, I see parents looking for tutors for their kids even before start P1.

Enrichment or tuition centric? I think both, constrained only by time and finances. :razz:

[Pen88n]

dorisp:

buds:

....I have parents asking whether i can teach their 1yr old phonics! :faint:

This is really :faint:

Just starting to learn how to talk and want to learn phonics? Old people like my mum will say \"haven't learnt to walk yet, want to run\"?

This is a case of too much $$ :moneyflies: and don't know where to spend..... :siao:

[wonderm]

ksi:

Yeah, would that be considered enrichment, i.e. good to have since there is no problem to solve? I distinguish between enrichment and tuition. I know many of the bright kids go for enrichment as a good to have. Centres like TLL is enrichment to me, children go there to pick up lifestyle habits like Heelys. Mindstretcher is both an enrichment and a tuition centre. Berries is more of an enrichment centre because if a primary school child is identified to have a problem in Chinese, it would be tough to follow the syllabus in Berries at the same level as syllabus is not MOE driven but extended, Tien Hsia caters more for tuition as they follow MOE syllabus closely but I am not sure if they have started enrichment version as well. So are we an enrichment-centric nation or a tuition-centric nation? :?

ksi, agree with your distinction between enrichment and tuition.

For your earlier survey of subject-specialization and release of compo marks/papers. My experience with my boys' school was that they had subject-specialized teachers for upper primary level (I can't remember about lower primary) and they definitely belonged to your Cat3 and Cat4 (for some exams at least, they didn't know the marks for compo and oral, I remembered we had to estimate ourselves). Like other parents, we were frustrated but didn't fight with the school for too long.

[Pen88n]

Funz:

ksi:

Yeah, would that be considered enrichment, i.e. good to have since there is no problem to solve? I distinguish between enrichment and tuition. I know many of the bright kids go for enrichment as a good to have. Centres like TLL is enrichment to me, children go there to pick up lifestyle habits like Heelys. Mindstretcher is both an enrichment and a tuition centre. Berries is more of an enrichment centre because if a primary school child is identified to have a problem in Chinese, it would be tough to follow the syllabus in Berries at the same level as syllabus is not MOE driven but extended, Tien Hsia caters more for tuition as they follow MOE syllabus closely but I am not sure if they have started enrichment version as well. So are we an enrichment-centric nation or a tuition-centric nation? :?

I do distinguish them too. And no, not referring to enrichments. Talking about tuition, some group, some private. But really, more and more, I see parents looking for tutors for their kids even before start P1.

Enrichment or tuition centric? I think both, constrained only by time and finances. :razz:

It is a norm now to attend pre-primary classes - preparation class they called it. You get prepared for the topics to be taught in P1. I always wonder why need to prepare - it is no wonder a lot of kids feel bored in sch when lessons are conducted, afterall they already know it or have been taught.

[Funz]

buds:

I have parents asking whether i can teach their 1yr old phonics! :faint:

Sure, $15/session. 1yr old, max 30mins/session.

Ants on the apple a a a
Ants on the apple a a a
.......

Tchr : what sound does the letter 'A' makes?
Kid stutters : a a apple
Tchr : GOOD!

[buds]

Hi beanbear.. :imanisland: .. good morning!


I don't want to get on the wrong foot with our very first conversation online. So i am making effort to clarify certain points discussed. Please bear with me. :please:

beanbear:

The policy is for teachers to teach up to 3 subjects except MT. This policy is flawed.

The main reason i engaged in quoting your statement was mainly cos there is no such policy and as such, one can't say that this supposed policy is flawed, thus in turn make MOE take the fault. Probably, for MOE not making it a policy (whatever IT is...)... the absence of a policy is the crux of all this. However to make that policy possible there must first be sufficient manpower of the right expertise to make it work. Hence i am inclined to believe it cannot be made a policy... cannot be made to work YET as not all schools have proportionate deployment of expertise to carry out subject-specialization for all classes of all levels.

beanbear:

I've had to turn to tuition to get Specialized Teaching for each subject.

I have read your experience with your children's schools and i understand that like all other moms and dads, we are committed to providing the best we can for our children and in your case turning to external help is a last resort. :hugs:

beanbear:

Lucky you! My DS has not been that fortunate. In his school, with the exception of P5, his form teachers taught him EMS including his final P6 year. In my DD's school it is also similar. So far, its EMS with the exception of P4. This year, P5, her form teacher also takes her EMS.

Lucky we are definitely not. We have our grouses too even when it comes to having teachers with supposed-subject-forte. While there may be standardized content to cover, delivery shows much variance in quality. But we're not complaining as the schools are teaching. Even if the ones we get are rigidly by the book people and can come across to children as :snooze: ... yaaawwwnnz.. Hence it does not necessarily mean that having separate subject teachers is ideal however much preferred. My children were indeed blessed that in P1 they both had a teacher teaching EM +- social studies/PE... and both teachers were great at it, teaching not only content but going extra miles! Especially when they observe that the class is grasping well and advancing faster than expected... they plan other impromptu stuff to engage the class. In this sense, i must admit we are not just lucky but really blessed.

beanbear:

Whether official policy or not, principal-driven or not, it's happening and I've spoken with the P & VPs, they tell me all the politically correct answers \"Teachers are expected to be able to teach EMS at primary school if required. Of course, there are teachers who request not to....blah blah blah.\"

So if it's not official policy we cannot say it is. That's just what i wanted to get across. Yes, to the fact that some Ps are more driven than others and it's not just about getting the school's name in the papers and what nots, but they genuinely care for their students and hence the support their teachers 100%. My children have attended/are attending schools no one wanted cos both schools had one of the most extras for 2C supp phase but these are gem schools within the neighbourhood.

beanbear:

They continue to test at very high standards but teaching is not adequate.

The schools the children have been in and are still currently attending have informed parents that there will be a couple of Higher Order questions thrown into written exams and that it's fine if the children cannot answer them as these questions are for sifting the creme of the crop purpose.. otherwise, so far children have not been tested what's not taught.

beanbear:

I've been involved in my kids' school as well, and of course, some Ps are more open to suggestions on curriculum & teaching. If they don't want you to interfere, they will have good PR skills to ward off your suggestions. With my kids failing at school or grades dropping like stock market, I had consult the Specialists whom I have to pay for.

beanbear:

I wouldn't say Teachers are not teaching at schools. But they are not adequately equipped or trained to teach in subjects they themselves are academically weak in. You get patchy learning from someone who is not very confident in that subject. I could always tell which is the subject my DS form teacher is probably well-trained or educated in because it's evident by the way he/she has delivered the subject and how DS can playback what he learnt from that teacher, the way he/she marks the work.

buds:

For this kind of teachers that we too have had experience with, we have raised concern with the teachers themselves followed by a word with the Principal who promised to look into it. We work with the teacher hand in hand with all the feedback collated from parents. There are many different kinds of teachers and instead of having to always point to MOE to come solve this and that.. we can help by tackling from ground up via feedback to HODs and Principal who can best look into the issues. Even if one sends a note to MOE, it'll go round robin back to the school again to investigate and follow up with MOE.

We have had many successful partnerships with Principals and teachers from both the schools my girls have attended/is currently still attending.

Subject HODs hold in-house workshops for parents to understand the skills/concepts children will be learning in school and have notified parents that the teachers undergo regular workshops lead by themselves (HODs) and are appraised that lessons are carried out effectively in class. Principal and at times together with HODs; schedule practicum appraisal to observe lessons, in the move to improve. Other times, my girls have come home bearing news that the Principal and another teacher came in unannounced and sat at the back of the class. This means that the teachers are also appraised as and when, not just during scheduled sit-ins which they can better prepare for.

Both schools have informed parents that the children will learn everything they need from the teachers.. in school. Tuition is not necessary or encouraged, unless the parents themselves really see the need to. The schools have advised parents that children should also have time to rest and play. Children are encouraged to come forward in the event of any doubt and to date no teachers have turned down my children's request for extra clarification on concepts they have trouble grasping or on some new methods that need more practice with.

In fact, a few teachers have come forward to inform students (who come by school bus and are the earliest to arrive) to come to them for recap of lessons (should they need it) while waiting for the rest of the students to arrive rather than waste time playing and getting sweaty.

Parents are welcome to write to the specific teachers or even meet up with them to discuss school or lesson issues at a time where it is more convenient. So many avenues to reach them too. Email, pupil diary and even via sms. These days, some of my girls' teachers also turn to whatsapp.

These partnerships we have are not without effort. Things didn't just fall on our lap. (as posted above) We REALLY try to work closely with the teachers. It a lotta work especially for not so motivated to perform kinda teachers... but together my children and i manage to motivate the teacher somehow... and choose our battles... to reach the comfort stage we are at now really took a lot of effort. But once forged, it creates the absolute advantage for our children and we have less grouses for we are on similar frequency of thought now. It took time to achieve what we did but it's worthwhile. Our children are well taken care of.

beanbear:

I'm not a grades-crazy kind of parent. I also didn't believe in tuition. I wanted to believe in the school system. But when my kids started to fail or get borderline grades from P3, and I had to use Grammar Handbooks, Science Handbooks, pay Specialists' Consultants to get learning done, I'm getting really pissed. I feel blessed we're not so poor that we can't afford tuition but with 4 kids, it's definitely a huge financial burden. I speak up for those who can't afford. What about them?

I am one of those who cannot afford.

What about us? We're the sandwiched level. Neither pauper-poor nor extra-cash-rich. A friend once said our level is the : borderline-pauper. Especially since our children still qualified to receive Edusave and what nots.

So since we cannot afford, we made extra effort to work around the issues we face with the schools. We cannot afford to wait for mistakes after mistakes to be made. Every person has a soft spot.. with that soft yet strong spot, we use it to motivate the person to do better than they thought they were. Lucky for us it worked.

I totally understand where you're coming from. It is a huge financial burden for a single income family. We have four children as well and two are going to enter the most expensive phase of education soon = the early childhood phase! :faint:... that itself is going to eat into our pockets.

I've read your sharings in many threads and i respect you as a dedicated mom just like myself.. so since we all experience different experiences with our children, their schools and their teachers, we are only here to share and learn from others. Just another case of different strokes for different folks.

I don't want to wait for the eventual reform from MOE if there is one to begin with so i chose to be more pro-active and chose something that didn't require extra moolahs $$$.... we worked from ground up.... tackle the individual teachers and like i said, thank goodness all that motivation and bonding with our children's teachers worked. Because it worked, the other children also benefitted from the teachers' new-found morale... to do more and to do right by the children.

For if it didnt work we wouldn't be able to afford tuition even if our children needed it.

[limlim]

Intermezzo:

that's the main reason i feel that tuition has become an obsession - when many parents send the kids for tuition without considering whether they REALLY need it, or whether they have time to rest / play / do nothing / get creative / develop new hobbies, and most importantly, learn how to learn on their own.

good point....

So.. the question now is, should the state/MOE interfere?