Real reason behind Singapore’s obsession with tuition
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schweppes:
Thanks, no dung !
if I may just tweak your example slightly, it should be the \"need\" to pull up from an F grade and the \"want\" to ensure that marks don't drop below A*verykiasu2010:
for some, the \"need\" is to pull up from the F grade
for some, the \"need\" is to ensure don't drop below A*, and even for A*, its must be a high A*
one man's meat is another's poison
(vk, :please: please don't throw male cow dung my way, hor :siam:
:please: :please: )
Going by Philip Kotler's (Marketing 101 guru), his definition is as such:
Needs - a state of self deprivation
This refers to basic needs, such as physical needs for food, warmth, safety, social needs for belonging and affection and individual needs for knowledge and self-expression.
This is where basic education comes in. When students are failing or getting borderline pass, parents see an urgent need to help the child to pass. Does not matter whether the child is a gifted, bright or a weak student, all parents, including the child himself, knows that he needs to pass his studies. That's the basic requirement.
Wants - the form taken by a human need as shaped by culture and individual personality
Wants are shaped by society. So, in Spore, society, unfortunately doesn't take too kindly to failures. It's also about mian zi (face saving). For some parents, they see the child's success in studies or work as a reflection of their success in life.
The wants come about because society is not satisfied with a borderline pass. It's hard to accept mediocrity in Spore. So, there is this \"want\" to get an A
Demands - human wants that are backed by buying power
Given their wants and resources, some will start to demand for products with benefits that provide the most value and satisfaction.
And this is where the likes of TLL comes in. They have a minimum entry requirement where they take in students who are already amongst the top students. Their \"assurance\" to parents who can afford the fees, is that TLL will provide quality enrichment and mentoring and also to ensure that the grades will not slip.
So, for kids who are already A students, parents will still continue to send their kids to TLL because they want to ensure that (1) grades do not slip (2) kid continues to receive the best educare and best available resources available.
ksi:
Sometimes, i also wonder how MOE should respond. On one hand, we want them to regulate the industry and on the other hand, we also don't want too much policing. A delicate balance.So if we mix up needs and wants, how is MOE going to respond to that?
Think easier said than done for MOE to proclaim \"ban all tuition\". As long as parents see a need for tuition for their kids, there will be tutors abound. It's a free market out there.
from an objective point of view, need and want are nicely distinguished apart.
in the real world where kiasuness is a way of life to many people, what is a want to some people is deemed a need by others, from kiasu point of view
here are some anecdotes from real people :-
student B : how did you do for HCL?
student A : my HCL sucks, 我的华文很烂!
student B : I got 95. what is yours ?
student A : I got 98 only (the person ended up among the top in the cohort )
student B : how is you math score ?
student C : threw the test paper away oredi lah.
student B : why ?
student C : only 92 -
limlim:
history of tuition and enrichment industry in Singapore over a period of 30 years.
It started with a \"need\".. those students who cannot catch up go for tuition..schweppes:
i know, it's very subjective. depends from which perspective one is looking at or the scenario one is in. but if going by kotler's definition, then i wd say that the above scenario is a \"want\".
Then.. someone tries to be kiasu and ask their kids to go for tuition so as to have an \"edge\" over the other one.. advertising and marketing by profit driven centers plays a large part cultivating this social ill.
As more parents send their kids for tuition/enrichment, they learn stuff before their peers, and may not pay attention in class (Note that these students are not playing catch-up). As the teachers take notice of these situation, they can go faster or skip certain parts or spend less time and they deemed that majority of the students already \"got it\", and proceed to other section prematurely..
As a result, those kids w/o external help may not be able to catch up and lag behind.. and as a result..
They Need tuition..
And the evil cycle repeats.. \"some\" school began to expect students to have tuition.. they cannot wait for these student to play catch up.. leading to more students attending tuition.. leading to more schools expecting students to have external help.......
Tuition is also a means for the more well-to-do to gain advantage over the less well to do and keep their social status..
IMO.. it is Not healthy to our national education program.. and warrant some intervention by the MOE.
You may produce pple that excel academically.. But they may Not be real talents.. And real potential talents who may not be financially well off to began with, might be marginalised.. and may not get to shine and contribute in a significant way.. -
I think let me share my perspective on this tuition thing from an Indonesian Chinese point of view. I spent my childhood in Jakarta and similar to Singapore, there was this obssessive culture of trying to outdo each other in academic results among the Indonesian Chinese. Parents sent their kids to tuition not to attempt to pass exams, but to ensure stellar results in their schools. Students’ rankings matter a lot and parents liked to brag about their children’s results as well. My mom likewise pushed me to be the best in the academic study and would scold me if I did not get the best result she expect. At least I had it better, the top student in my class shared to me her mom caned her because she scored 89/100 for math exam (her mom said she’s not allowed to score below 90 for ANY tests).
My mom would non stop compared me to her friends’ kids. Said that wah, my friend’s kids did not watch TV or played SEGA at all and spent entire week studying; they got the top in class. Then keep quoting examples of very smart kids who went on to become doctors or lawyers or engineers etc. My parents also basically laid out my career path and I was expected to do the family proud by becoming a very accomplished millionaire engineer. Suffice to say, I was result obssessed and often suffered depression if my results were lower than my classmates. As a result I was also extremely socially inept and unable to converse well with other children my age.
So somewhere along the line I decided to make a switch to be a musician in despite starting piano extremely late at 17 years old. My parents were very furious and we were not in talking terms for at least a few years. They eventually relented and let me finish my BA in music because they didn’t want to lose face as the only parents without a degree holding son. Then lately these few years my parents noticeably support me more and accept my choice of career and life. My mom said to me that she regretted her approach in my childhood. She confided that many of these star kids her friends have ended with terrible adult lives. One particular stellar child who ended up to be a famous doctor had a terrible divorce and suffering depression now. Many also ended in unhappy jobs and decided to make mid-life career switch, so apparently I was not the only one.
So I hope this can provide some perspective in this discussion on how obsession with results might have impact further down in your children’s lives. -
limlim:
:goodpost:
It started with a \"need\".. those students who cannot catch up go for tuition..
Then.. someone tries to be kiasu and ask their kids to go for tuition so as to have an \"edge\" over the other one.. advertising and marketing by profit driven centers plays a large part cultivating this social ill.
As more parents send their kids for tuition/enrichment, they learn stuff before their peers, and may not pay attention in class (Note that these students are not playing catch-up). As the teachers take notice of these situation, they can go faster or skip certain parts or spend less time and they deemed that majority of the students already \"got it\", and proceed to other section prematurely..
As a result, those kids w/o external help may not be able to catch up and lag behind.. and as a result..
They Need tuition..
And the evil cycle repeats.. \"some\" school began to expect students to have tuition.. they cannot wait for these student to play catch up.. leading to more students attending tuition.. leading to more schools expecting students to have external help.......
Tuition is also a means for the more well-to-do to gain advantage over the less well to do and keep their social status..
IMO.. it is Not healthy to our national education program.. and warrant some intervention by the MOE.
You may produce pple that excel academically.. But they may Not be real talents.. And real potential talents who may not be financially well off to began with, might be marginalised.. and may not get to shine and contribute in a significant way.. -
verykiasu2010:
Find the above very sad and scary thought leh. No doubt, A and C are very intelligent kids but sadly, have a somewhat distorted view of life. What happens when they progress to the Uni... where getting 80+, let alone 90 and above is so hard to attain. The norm can be in the 60s and for the very good ones, maybe only 70s? Then what is life to them then? End of the world?
in the real world where kiasuness is a way of life to many people, what is a want to some people is deemed a need by others, from kiasu point of view
here are some anecdotes from real people :-
student B : how did you do for HCL?
student A : my HCL sucks, 我的华文很烂!
student B : I got 95. what is yours ?
student A : I got 98 only (the person ended up among the top in the cohort )
student B : how is you math score ?
student C : threw the test paper away oredi lah.
student B : why ?
student C : only 92 -
Dreamaurora:
I think let me share my perspective on this tuition thing from an Indonesian Chinese point of view.
Thanks for sharing..
btw, as I parent, I would feel proud and maybe brag about it only if my kids achievements are obtained w/o tuition. If it is paid for (in a way).. what is there to be proud of.. (for those parents who brag when their kids did it with $$$$$ tuition/enrichment lessons).. just my personal opinion..
no matter how my SO nag and nag..
I just refused to let my kids go for tuition.. -
schweppes:
This is very real. It still happens with some students at secondary school. Anything less than 90 is not acceptable. (<95 for some kids). Often times it's a demand from the parent instilled from primary school that's now ingrained in the child that anything less than perfect is not acceptable. :faint:
Find the above very sad and scary thought leh. No doubt, A and C are very intelligent kids but sadly, have a somewhat distorted view of life. What happens when they progress to the Uni... where getting 80+, let alone 90 and above is so hard to attain. The norm can be in the 60s and for the very good ones, maybe only 70s? Then what is life to them then? End of the world?verykiasu2010:
in the real world where kiasuness is a way of life to many people, what is a want to some people is deemed a need by others, from kiasu point of view
here are some anecdotes from real people :-
student B : how did you do for HCL?
student A : my HCL sucks, 我的华文很烂!
student B : I got 95. what is yours ?
student A : I got 98 only (the person ended up among the top in the cohort )
student B : how is you math score ?
student C : threw the test paper away oredi lah.
student B : why ?
student C : only 92 -
schweppes:
verykiasu2010:
in the real world where kiasuness is a way of life to many people, what is a want to some people is deemed a need by others, from kiasu point of view
here are some anecdotes from real people :-
student B : how did you do for HCL?
student A : my HCL sucks, 我的华文很烂!
student B : I got 95. what is yours ?
student A : I got 98 only (the person ended up among the top in the cohort )
student B : how is you math score ?
student C : threw the test paper away oredi lah.
student B : why ?
student C : only 92
Find the above very sad and scary thought leh. No doubt, A and C are very intelligent kids but sadly, have a somewhat distorted view of life. What happens when they progress to the Uni... where getting 80+, let alone 90 and above is so hard to attain. The norm can be in the 60s and for the very good ones, maybe only 70s? Then what is life to them then? End of the world?
no scared
they know very well pri sch and lower sec still got chance to get 100 marks but when they go higher, less chances to get such high marks
but some of them still can get very very high scores even in SMO
for them it is a physical and mental discipline to put in their bestest best in whatever they do, be it studies or sports or community service. they are not satisfied with just being above average or very good
during school holidays they spent long hours helping out the less fortunate people in mission trips etc -
Dreamaurora:
I think let me share my perspective on this tuition thing from an Indonesian Chinese point of view.
Thanks for sharing, Dreamaurora
Sometimes I wonder in this day and age, will parents balk if their kids choose a career path less travelled?
Say... they want to be an actor, painter, artist, musician...? Will parents mind? It's still a decent and respectable job, but not what the parents had in mind, like being a doctor, banker, lawyer, engineer.... -
jtoh:
This is very real. It still happens with some students at secondary school. Anything less than 90 is not acceptable. (<95 for some kids). Often times it's a demand from the parent instilled from primary school that's now ingrained in the child that anything less than perfect is not acceptable. :faint:[/quote]some parents instil fears and demand for performance
Find the above very sad and scary thought leh. No doubt, A and C are very intelligent kids but sadly, have a somewhat distorted view of life. What happens when they progress to the Uni... where getting 80+, let alone 90 and above is so hard to attain. The norm can be in the 60s and for the very good ones, maybe only 70s? Then what is life to them then? End of the world?schweppes:
[quote=\"verykiasu2010\"]
in the real world where kiasuness is a way of life to many people, what is a want to some people is deemed a need by others, from kiasu point of view
here are some anecdotes from real people :-
student B : how did you do for HCL?
student A : my HCL sucks, 我的华文很烂!
student B : I got 95. what is yours ?
student A : I got 98 only (the person ended up among the top in the cohort )
student B : how is you math score ?
student C : threw the test paper away oredi lah.
student B : why ?
student C : only 92
some parent instil value and virtue -- in whatever they do, do they best and not wishy washy mediocrity
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